Triggered by therapist - fleas?

[Sidney37]

I'm not sure where to post this.  Has anyone had a therapist who might actually be a narcissist or who has serious fleas themselves?   What did you do?

I picked this therapist because she has expertise in daughters of narcissistic mothers.  She understood many things about having a narcissist as a mother without me having to explain it.  After about 3 months I figured out that her own mother was a narcissist.  The therapist definitely has fleas and argues with me in ways similar to how my mother argued with me.  I finding myself JADEing the therapist.  She wanted me to have a telehealth visor therapy appointment while driving which I thought was unsafe.  I made excuses which she argued about, too.  Definite JADEing on my part. 

She seems not to take some physical health issues I have due to an actual injury seriously and argues with me that they are due to stress only.  Nope... I have MRIs and surgeries to prove it.  She argued with me that my doctor was just trying to get kickbacks from doing the tests!     Nope.  She has called several of my husbands female relatives a "bitch" when I've talked about mildly irritating things that they have done.  I wouldn't call them that.

Is this all a sign that I need to leave this therapist?  And if so, how do you leave a therapist especially when they seem to have fleas and you find the need to JADE when dealing with them?

[moglow]

I wouldn't be comfortable with her behavior, fleas or no. I have a deep aversion to name calling, ANY name calling. It seems a cop-out to me, slap a label on someone rather than address [or not] behavior that I don't agree with. I know that's one of MY triggers, having been called derogatory names by my mother all my life, but I still don't think it's right. And for a therapist to stoop to that - I wouldnt be comfortable at all.

The JADE-ing [or feeling I should] would be a flag for me, telling me to maybe reconsider the relationship or at the least my internal responses to it. You don't have to explain anything to anyone - but seriously, who wants to telehealth in traffic?? Distraction, anyone?!

Maybe use this as an exercise in boundaries? No means No, can we move forward now? Polite but firm, make it clear that subject is closed.

[moglow]

And just an aside - if you decide to seek therapy elsewhere, you don't hae to explain that either. Unless you have some sort of contract (which you can choose to not renew) that's nothing binding you where you feel uncomfortable. A little discomfort can be good, pushing you to step up for yourself where you might not otherwise, but only you know where that line is.

[Penny Lane]

Whoa, yes. I think you can and should leave a therapist for any reason - it needs to be a good fit, and sometimes that's unquantifiable.

But in this case yeah these are huge red flags for me as well and I would get outta there. It doesn't sound like a situation that is conducive for your healing.

Best, most kindest interpretation is that her "stuff" and your "stuff" are interacting in a way that's not helpful for you. I'm personally inclined to go with your theory of fleas, though, reading through this laundry list of what I would consider to be objectively bad behavior.

[treesgrowslowly]

I would find a new therapist.

Take what you've learned from this one and move on.

To answer your question Yes..this happens. There are some older threads about it though I don't know where they are housed. Maybe in the "working on us" area?

It takes a few different therapists before we meet the one that fits for us. I mean sure some times one might luck out and the first therapist happens to fit. But that's more rare than your situation. Your situation is more common.

There have been discussions here - again I'm sorry I don't recall where they are...other more savvy members may add links...about therapists who are not a fit.

There was nothing wrong with you choosing her. We all choose therapists based on their bio or location etc and we're the ones that need to see if its a fit. I once met with a "mental health professional" who as anything but professional! This person had a lot of degrees and said they had expertise but behaved so confusingly that it was not a fit at all. I left and never went back. I just looked for someone new. They are not all good or skilled. Lots of folks here can attest to that.

You don't owe her an explantation. She's not a friend. She's like a mechanic - you didn't really think it worked great so you found another one.

The best therapists I've had: I know nothing about their personal lives, they don't gaslight me, they listen really really well, they don't make it about them, they don't make questionable decisions around treatment times (driving during a treatment) or show other signs of poor judgement.

I've had a few piss poor therapists and counsellors. The longer we stay with them the harder it is to move on and find a good fit.

A good fit for you is out there. This isn't it.

Calling other people names is a sign that she is processing HER own emotions during your session. Arguing with you is another sign that she is in her own emotions during YOUR session. Unacceptable. Imagine an MD doing this in their work context.

She may very well think this is a treatment style. From what you describe I feel confident saying this is not the road to healing for daughters of narcissistic mothers.  It is not.

Treatment for daughters of narcissists requires a lot of skill by the therapist to create space for your emotions. The opposite of her creating space for her emotions. You've already been through that. (I'm the daughter of a narc mother. The healing does happen and it is a process for us). Doesn't sound like you felt safe during these visits. And I am sorry for that. I know how that feels. I had a therapist act like my mother and it was really upsetting. So I'm glad you're here.

I wouldn't go back. Nor would I talk with her about why I've moved on. 

My 2 cents.

Trees

[Leonor]

Yes! New therapist!

Trauma therapy is tough stuff. It's not a working relationship where you have to put up with behavior that makes you uncomfortable. Even as you move through your own hard feelings, and they may "come out" towards the therapist, a good therapist *always* works hard to make you feel heard, your experience honored, and your well-being paramount.

I've ended therapy relationships with very nice people because I felt they just didn't "get it." Sometimes they seemed too young, or too nice-but, as in,"she's a really nice person, but ..."


On the other hand, I've also worked with people who got it right away. Now that I think about it, the first thing most of them said to me was asking me gently if I was comfortable where I was seated. It's a wonderful question because we trauma survivors have such issues around where we are sitting in a room (near a door, no back to windows, etc.) and we often sit in ways to make ourselves "seem small" and wind up really uncomfortable. It was also kind of empowering to look around the room and think, I'd rather be there... Although I still don't know if I have it in me to actually move to another chair!


Anyway, rambling. Just wanted to say that YES you deserve a wonderful, caring and knowledgeable therapist with no fleas who you click with right away even if the work gets hard.

And remember: it's not charity, here. You are paying for the therapist's professionalism, expertise and guided support. Don't do your t any favors by staying somewhere you don't like because you feel you owe it to her.

[Sidney37]

Thanks everyone.  Definitely not the right therapist.  She gets PD, but doesn't seem to get trauma therapy.

I've struggled in the area I'm currently living to find someone who gets both PD and trauma.  The trauma therapist I saw kept insisting that I should feel sorry for my enD and keep trying to work it out with him even though he was lying to me about my PDm.  She didn't get PD at all.  Another therapist i saw argued with me that most of the PDs i mentioned don't exist.   They do and they are in the DSM. 

This therapist with PD experience seems to have no trauma/c-PTSD training and seems to be triggering me at every appointment.  When I mention it to her she responds thst she's just trying to help or validate me.  The "just trying to help" line is one my PDm uses when being overly critical. 

I tried talking to her about it this week.  She wants me to research how to deal with a particular issue since her one visualization exercise doesn't help me.  Then I can tell her the options that I think might work and we can try it.   Isn't  that her job to try different things to see what might work?  I wouldn't even know where to look for options of therapeutic exercises. 

It's hard to find the right fit.

[moglow]

Sidney, one therapist I truly connected with had a whole other focus that I didnt go looking for but really helped me. She took it all off mother and discussion of mother, made it truly about me and my needs. I don't mean she discouraged it or cut me off, but refocused back to my needs.

I'd been having a really hard time turning mother's voice off in my head, the comparisons and put downs and "you cant/will never," etc. So instead of me talking through what mother said or might say, we redirected to what I wanted and needed to hear, built a trust in my own instincts and inner voices. The reality for me was, constant focus on mother tied me there. We had to change that message so I could have MY life, stop living mother's and her view of me. It really helped me make the separation I needed and start really distancing myself from mother and her stuff.

I guess what I'm saying is, maybe you could look for someone that way - not necessarily PD focused, but on YOU. No one else has to agree your mother is PD, but they do need to see you as an individual needing guidance.

[treesgrowslowly]

I agree with Moglow.

You already know your mom has a PD. A lot of people go to therapy clueless about PDs.

You need a therapist who makes it about you. There is a ted talk by doctor gabor mate and in it he says its not about talking about the trauma...its about talking about what the trauma did to you. Which is unique to each person.

Each one of us here with a PD parent has had some of the same things done by the PD. The lying for example. My PD parents lie, your PD parents lie...lots of PD parents lie. Therapy is to get support as you learn to heal from what the lying has done to you. How it changed you.

I agree with you. Your therapist told you to go find what works for you after the thing she suggested didn't work? She's not for you.

And it sounds like she defended her approach rather than listening to you. Honestly she doesn't sound like she's very good at listening.

These therapists do exist. And they make money. But they don't always help. Not every therapist knows what she is doing.

I've been there. In between therapists. You have this forum and there are lots of good books and videos to use until you find someone who gets it.

Leonor said it! This isn't a working relationship where you work to make it work. I suspect a lot of narcissists go into therapy type jobs cause it fits into their self concept about how "they are the only ones who know anything"...buyer beware. Plus when someone is unhappy with them there's less accountability than if they had to function in a multi employee environment. A lot of clients will feel responsible if the therapy isn't working out.

A narc therapist can keep working for years.... because they don't have to answer to "management" the way most people do in other professional jobs. I had one email me years after I left ...begging her old clients to come back. I guess she had ran out of clients. Not my problem!

Trees