Painful Boundary Setting

[WhiteWolf]

So last night DH threw yet another tantrum that involved throwing objects at the ceiling. Usually I am quick to jump right in and clean up after his rage moments but not this time.

He was upset that I was acting like a "d**k". Called me that to my face in front of the kids along with bi**h.

Actually I had told him when he was on his way home that I had had a day from hell and couldn't take anymore. But of course that somehow always gives him an opening to add more to my plate psychologically and emotionally.

This time it was a plate of pork chop and green beans that he threw, so green beans basically got smeared all over the living room, ceiling, carpet...broken pieces of plate everywhere complete with flying steak knife. I immediately told him I wasn't cleaning that up. Set the boundary. So he cleaned up "some" last night but left most of the food everywhere on the carpet and ceiling.

So I let it sit there all day until he came home from work to clean up. It was like living in a constant reminder of the messed up relationship I'm in all day. Of course he got home and saw I hadn't cleaned up his mess and immediately started throwing things again, saying he didn't want me to do anything for him ever again, that I didn't do anything, that he had to do "my job for me" cleaning up his mess, and basically threatening to leave me and make me suffer, which he did last night too. And told me to shut up when I tried to talk.

I was shaking, like I always am when he's angry, it's just my body's first reaction now to his anger. And of course now he is giving me the silent treatment, being mean, didn't want me to make his dinner and on and on. He went to bed without saying anything to me. The kicker is I'm not feeling well, I think I have a cold.

Intellectually I know I did the right thing to set a boundary, and I think it's the first time I ever have fully. Last night was the first night I wasn't afraid of his throwing things and charging me and threatening me. So I'm proud of myself.

But this boundary setting thing hurts. The emotional pain is a physical hurt and it reminded me why I've just given in to everyone and what they want before. Because sticking up for myself is so painful

I know I did, but, I did the right thing, right? What if he leaves?

[JustKeepTrying]

Whitewolf,

The throwing things, tantrums and silent treatment is emotional manipulation and abuse.

I lived with this kind of behavior for 32 years.  My husband would punch things and throw things - inches from me.  If hadn't moved, i would have been hit.  While I never thought he abuse me because he didn't actually hit me.  I was wrong.

I didn't know where he ended and I began.  I was just an extension of him and his needs and wants.  I remember buy the Boundaries book a decade ago thinking "Oh, this will work."  Ugh.  I tried again and again.  It wasn't until I left that i gained enough clarity, patience, peace to firmly place and set boundaries. 

I couldn't and you did.  WOW.  It's so hard and you should be proud of yourself.  These are little steps of your coming Out of the FOG. 

So he leaves.  I and many others here are proof that life will be OK on the other side.  For me, it is far better than OK.

Hugs

[notrightinthehead]

Well done you! You have every right to be proud of yourself,  standing up to such a tantrum. I would be trembling too, of fear and rage when faced with such behaviour.  This does not even suit a two year old and you would have set boundaries with a toddler too. How brave of you to stand up to such bullying and how strong of you to endure it for so long.

You write: "The emotional pain is a physical hurt and it reminded me why I've just given in to everyone and what they want before. Because sticking up for myself is so painful". That is a clear indication that you realize that you need to do some work on yourself.  Do you have access to a domestic violence helpline? CoDA group? Therapist? Counsellor?  Somewhere along your way you seem to have learned that you are not allowed to stand up to bullies. That might have worked for you in the past, but now you have grown.  You have now embarked on the path Out of the FOG.
If he leaves, you will no longer have to endure being yelled at, walk over broken plates and enjoy beans on the ceiling. You might even be less frightened in the long run.

[SonofThunder]

Hello WhiteWolf,

I'm so sorry you had to deal with your DH's childish tantrum, but thrilled that you walked away from the mess and did not clean it up.  That is SO hard.  Sure, living in the mess and stain is frustrating, but so necessary to protect yourself. 

Now that you have experienced his childish behavior on many levels, I want to encourage you further.   Actually standing firm on a boundary you set for yourself is brave and very difficult to follow through.  It will get easier each time you do, but will always be an event that makes you angry, shake and gets your blood pressure into full gear.   It's worth it. 

You wrote " Actually I had told him when he was on his way home that I had had a day from hell and couldn't take anymore. But of course that somehow always gives him an opening to add more to my plate psychologically and emotionally. "

The last sentence let's me know you are aware, but I want to encourage you to remember that this kind of comment, is very real fodder for a PD to thrive upon.  If you need to vent, maybe there is a non-Pd friend you can call, or find a quiet space and vent to an inanimate object.

In addition, now that the food throwing incident is past, and knowing that he can do that again if he chooses.   You may want to set a further boundary to protect yourself and convey something like this to him:  "the next time I experience you throwing food that I have prepared, i will no longer be preparing meals for you to eat, but only meals for myself". 

If there are children in the home and you need to put that boundary in place, then you could prepare/feed the children and yourself at a separate time.   These types of enacted boundaries can be very effective in protecting yourself, but they do lead to prolonged silent treatment and also distancing in relationship, so mental preparation is needed, as it may feel as if you live in a house with a roommate who is always silent and angry.  That, in my opinion, is still better than the exhausting work of being one step behind the offensive (vs defensive) actions and reactions of a PD. 

Again great job, and sorry you are experiencing these tantrums. 

SoT

[ArmadilloKate]

I don't know if this is crossing a line for how we should support each other here please feel free to tell me if it does. You deserve better. It would be hard but if he does leave it would be a gift to you. That is abuse. What he is doing is abuse. It damages you. It damages your kids. I'm so so sorry you are being subjected to this.

[blunk]

Wow, WhiteWolf, your story sounds so much like my history with my bpdxh, right down to physically shaking when he was angry (and eventually any time I had to be in the same room) and his smashing things on the ceiling.

You should be very proud of yourself for setting, and holding, that boundary. Your H's reaction when he saw that the mess was still there just proves that he didn't believe you could do it. He expected you to fold and clean the mess, I know it must have been very difficult not to, but you did the right thing for YOU...hence his anger.

In my case I came home to beer bottles that had been thrown at the ceiling and were scattered on the kitchen floor. I was so freaked out that I started cleaning it up right away, since I had 3 dogs at the time who were roaming the house while he was passed out on the couch. When he heard me in the kitchen he got up and dumped the contents of the kitchen table into the pile. I found out later that he had also thrown the full dish strainer into the yard...and I have no idea what set it off since I was at work at the time. After the second incident I told him that I would be taking the dogs for a walk, and that he could clean the mess himself. He did, kind of, but I was still finding shards of glass weeks later. I am so glad that none of the dogs were injured.

Like you, I experienced him ramping up his behavior when I said anything about having a bad day. It was like an invitation for him to add to whatever was making me unhappy/stressed/etc. There was also a situation where I said something about the various things he had done that hurt me over the years. He lost it and INSISTED (read: hounded me day and night) that I tell him what they were, by making a list. Needless to say, that list is one of my biggest regrets as it became his new playbook. It was like he read it and thought...ooh I forgot about that one...I should do that some more. Eventually I stopped giving any indication of my thoughts or mood, realizing that it was just fuel for the fire. The only thing I couldn't hide was the shaking...and occasionally twitching, which I am 100% sure was caused by stress.

And the reason I am so sure of this, is that the shaking stopped within minutes of my telling him that I wanted a divorce. I can't say that is the right path for you, but it may be something to consider. Based on the few incidents that you have shared it is clear that this relationship is toxic and abusive. If you haven't already, I would recommend that you read Why Does He Do That, Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men by Lundy Bancroft. That book and this website helped to open my eyes to how bad my situation really was, and gave me the strength to do something about it.

Good luck to you!

[tragedy or hope]

So glad you came here to tell someone and did not keep it to yourself. Come here often. IMO When we write out what happens, it seems to clarify what kind of insanity we have tucked away in our private world of torment. It is growth to let others in on the insanity.

You have children. My heart hurts for you because I have been through similar as my children grew. It is especially hard because of the kids. Trying to keep some kind of sanity and balance for them while dh is acting out, and feeling bad yourself and rejected is like being in a prison.

I kept all inside and hidden from anyone. Don't do this if you can help it. It is a terrible way to live because you matter. With all of the courage that it will take you, find someone trustworthy who will hear you each and every time, you experience this stuff. Come back here and write your experiences.

Soon you will see how bad things are, and then you can decide what to do. In the living of it, it is so normal to us, we don't see how really horrible these situations are and what they are doing to us.

I stayed. There are still hard times because they don't change. You can set boundaries but know this childish stuff will go on forever. They are not capable of seeing that they are ruining relationships.

I had to change my perspective, my boundaries, and eventually invited him out of the relationship if he did not want the same kind of life i wanted. He stayed, things improved to a point, but the kids were out of the house.

YOU and the KIDs first always. Safety and peace, serenity for you are good goals.

Again, so glad you did something about it in telling others. Great beginning. 

[ploughthrough2021]

I have had a knife flying at me with my STBxuPDw during one of her outbursts.  I find that getting the F out of FOG is the first step.  I have not had to call the cops up to now but not afraid to do it when my safety and those of the kids are compromised.  These days, my challenge is actually taking the O and G out of my system.  Although just two days ago she threatened to seek 'revenge' and make my life miserable if I leave her which brought my the 'Fear' back up a notch.  I told her that my life cannot be more miserable than it has been for the last 6 years (we ve been together for 30).  You are doing the right thing to stand against this kind of unacceptable behavior but keep your safety in mind at all times. Good luck

[GettingOOTF]

Have you read Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft? In it he describes the situation you've described with the throwing and breaking of things.

My ex used to do this all the time. It is terrifying. It is also considered abuse. Your shaking and being upset are natural reactions to the situation.

We can't give advice here, we can only tell our own stories and speak from our own experiences. I have been where you are. I ultimately chose to leave, but it was a long road and I consider myself lucky to have left with my life. Abuse always escalates. I wish I'd reached out to a domestic violence line earlier for help, but I did it all alone as I thought I was the problem and that I'd never survive with out my ex. I was so beaten down by the abuse that I didn't even see it as abuse.

I cannot recommend Why Does He Do That enough. If you can't read it at hole you can find free PDF versions on line. Some women read it at work or at friends. It is really eye opening.

I'm sorry for what you are going through. I know how frightening and isolating it can me. You aren't alone and there is a lot of support here.

[Mary]

As a modification of SoT's boundary, you might say you are not cooking again for a specified time period like 3 days or a week. I found that to be effective when my cooking was belittled before it was even tasted.

[SonofThunder]

As a modification of SoT's boundary, you might say you are not cooking again for a specified time period like 3 days or a week. I found that to be effective when my cooking was belittled before it was even tasted.

Hello Mary,

I agree that a specific length of time can be stipulated in creating boundaries for ourselves, and in this particular example of WhiteWolf's experience, that may be beneficial to her.  I will add though, that I have had my uPDfather cease his manipulative and dramatic action through a past stated specific period of my protective boundary, and then after the stated period of time was over, resume the manipulative and dramatic action again, proving to me he had ample ability to self-control, which assisted me in my decision making going forward. 

So therefore if a time constraint is going to be placed on a protective boundary for ourselves, we must be prepared to place another boundary afterwards, and plan in advance, for any potential length of time for the additional boundary (if not permanent), as the PD's in my life feed off the drama whenever it's possible to do so. 

Since WhiteWolf already experienced the very real throwing of a meal she prepared, she may be well aware that he may do it again, just to spite her, outside of a stated time span, in order to obtain the thrill of a challenge of her boundary time span.

She could also simply state "I will not be cooking meals for you to eat, until I decide I'm ready to do so", which leaves the time span on the protective boundary for herself, open-ended and at her own discretion. 

SoT

[Empie2204]

My H used to throw things around, It took me more than twenty years to set my boundaries and leave the scattered things around.
What is worse, in earlier years, his throwing made me extremely miserable and frustrated. Sometimes to that extent that I threw or broke something on purpose. He knew I was miserable and that I regretted my act, but used my outburst to present me as the bad one.

As for confessing your H your bad days, I support you in being silent. In these matters, disordered partners are not partners, we cannot confide in them. 

As for food, boundaries could be very effective. I let myself be fooled too long and that was useless. I should have set my boundaries there much earlier.

I see your fear comes out as shaking: my fear was not like that, but fear in any shape is not a normal part of any relationship.
Only now I understand that the thing I was afraid of was experiencing  his bad temper, shouting, throwing things, silent treatment. Agreeing to a "no boundary" attitude I was avoiding them, but had no guarantee that they will disappear. To say the least, this is a hard life.

The first impression of my boundary was similar to yours: I felt something similar to stagefright: simultaneous fear and the feeling I must do it, no matter what.
The day I first asked myself the question "What is the worst thing that could happen?" was the day my boundary setting started to increase.

 

   What if he leaves?

This question bothered me for quite a long. My H was on the verge of leaving twice. Now I know it was only a show, but both times I begged him to stay. He knew it. The PDs have an incredible intuition. When they are sure they have us in their grip, they mould us and play drama.

After I started with my boundaries, he withdrew.
So, the answer is: If he leaves, he leaves.
If he leaves, this will be his and only his decision, regardles of his attempts to twist the truth.

[1footouttadefog]

I cook a large batch of stuff once every 2-4 weeks and make frozen dinners for my pdh.  I will make between 8and 10 of the same thing. I rotate what I make so at any time he has 4-5 choices.  I let him know what I or my dds plan to cook at lunch time and he opts in or out.  He will take his dinner if chose out to defrost.

Amazingly he has learned how to use defrost mode on the microwave as well.  This is huge for him.  Haha, a real techno-dolt, but with incentive an old dog can learn a new trick.

He is now empowered with choices and the kids and I are free to experiment with new or exotic to us things, new recipes, and eat healthier as well.

Sometimes boundaries can make it better for everyone.  I hope you can all find boundaries that work, even if they mean a new threshold that cannot be crossed at a new place.

[WhiteWolf]

I have read each and every one of your replies, sometimes more than once and I can't tell you how each one means so much and is so powerful to me. Thank you everyone for replying. Keep 'em coming! 💛

As for an update...we are back to "normal". And it actually wasn't my cooking he threw, it was his, and one of the remaining plates he kept from his mother's collection. The reminder to not share/confide was a really important one for me, I appreciate it! And yes, I have read Lundy Bancroft's book and found it very impactful as far as my awareness.

[SparkStillLit]

I got sick of the throwing and called the police. I have not been able to be allowed to forget that for 22 years. It stopped the throwing, though (but not any of the rest of the behavior, and added a great new weapon to the guilt arsenal.)

[losingmyself]

Yeah, the throwing stuff slows way down when they have to clean it up. H threw fluorescent lightbulbs the last time. After a few days, he cleaned them up. Mostly. I'm still finding pieces. If he's there, I say "look, here's a piece of that lightbulb you threw"

[Starboard Song]

You did the right thing.

In particular, there was no retribution in deciding not to clean up a mess he created in anger. I do not like retributive behavior in boundaries, myself. I believe the best boundaries are NEVER fences. I think the best boundaries don't sound like punishment, either, though the other party may wail like Gollum at them.

And your boundaries are yours: you may have decided to pick up the knife, because it is dangerous, and the whole pieces of food, because they are dirty, but to leave the rest for him. The rule is that you will do and engage with only the stuff you want to do or engage with.

I've never encountered this type of physical rage, so I am way out of my league: but please consider the risk of physical harm and be ready, with a plan, should you need to leave quickly. I am not saying you should plan to leave, but only that you make sure you have a place to go.

Be good. Be strong.