Need help for DH please

[Seven]

So I'm back on this board.  Of course it's a mother's Day issue.

Tiny bit of recent backstory.  There was an HVAC situation.  DH referred his parents to a friend of ours who could do the work they wanted inexpensively (a lot less than what one of the bigger HVAC companies would do). Long story short, ILs are the "victims" again    DH called out his F who totally contradicted something that came out of his mouth not 2 seconds after he said it.  FIL then told DH "all you're trying to do is piss people off."

And MIL "but you always take the other persons side" (that's because the other person is usually right) and DH is a very fair person.  So it came down to him telling the ILs "don't call me unless it's to apologize for saying what you did.  You guys broke it, you need to fix it"   Then MIL coming back saying "there's something going on in that house", implying I'm behind his spine becoming shinier. Not the first time she's implied this.  I had absolutely nothing to do with the entire situation. 

Radio silence for weeks.

So DH asked me today if he should do something for mother's day.  Should he break his own boundary? They've never celebrated holidays, birthdays, etc until I came into the picture because I have a large (albeit dysfunctional) family and DH would attend those events (the birthdays and holidays...the major holiday the ILs were invited too) and the ILs would get jealous "how come you don't do it for us?"  Most likely because they had never been a celebrating type of family.

He has told them that any time he tries to do something nice he gets anxiety...and he does. He gets the funky left arm pain that only happens when he's stressed and has been treated unfairly.

So good people of this forum, how do I help DH make a decision what to do?  If he calls he breaks his own boundary.  I'm sure he doesn't want to do anything but I'm sure he'll feel guilty as well.  One of the last times he took his mother out for MD by himself and without myself and FIL it did not go well at all.  That's all way back in my post history.

[bloomie]

Hi Seven - Oh boy! Know this entire scenario as well. Offer a simple reference for reliable help for DH's parents who do not play well with others over most things financial, and when things go sideways... and they do more times than not, it is our 'fault'. Ummm... no.

So good people of this forum, how do I help DH make a decision what to do?  If he calls he breaks his own boundary.  I'm sure he doesn't want to do anything but I'm sure he'll feel guilty as well.  One of the last times he took his mother out for MD by himself and without myself and FIL it did not go well at all.  That's all way back in my post history.

I say this a lot, so I apologize for the broken record I can be at times, but what DH and I have learned over time due to having bumbled and fumbled things SOOOO much, we now know that offering messages, invitations, and actions, and gifts/no gifts, hospitality, that are consistent across the board with where the relationship actually stands for us is what love and kindness looks like.

So, offering a Mother's Day celebration or gift or card or nothing at all to a mother who by your description refuses to take full responsibility for what she says and does and adjust her beavhiors so that she is not harming her adult child and insulting her dil... whatever is in line with the reality of the relationship and whatever is in line with your own core values and boundaries - you could encourage your DH to do that.

[Starboard Song]

Well, I better give a disclaimer: we are pushing 6 years NC with my in-laws. And their detachment from reality was the instigator.

But I gotta admit, I tend to shy away from "unless you [meet this condition] I will not talk to you again" situations, because they are rarely productive. Especially when the condition is about a past behavior. Even dear friends who are healthy often agree to let bygones be bygones, with neither apologizing to the other. Unhealthy folks who may have a PD are extremely unlikely to issue a good and clear apology.

You may be at the point where you are happy to go NC. And -- as one of those folks, myself -- I'd support you in that hard decision. And if you are ready to go NC then demanding a full apology is a good next step. But if you are not, then I'd encourage you to tactics most likely to achieve your goal. Your goal, of course, is about some   you want to achieve. And I don't think demanding an apology is most likely to achieve it.

I'd encourage you and DH to think about what your boundaries would be in the future, after an apology. What would you be willing to do, or engage with? What are you not willing to do, or engage with? How will you be able to enforce it, so that these situations don't arise again? Can you enforce such rules without a nuclear option?

Now, this is all highly personal, but I'd encourage you not to withhold customery expressions of love and recognition, like a simple Mother's Day card. We send cards to people all the time as a perfunctory courtesy. Not sending a card will very likely feel like a Silent Treatment at the other end. They would be even more angry, and be demanding reciprocal apologies. And you could be off to the NC races.

You may need to have a serious talk with them about what was said, describing why it was inappropriate and explaining that you will never again listen to such talk: directing them to think carefully, and to avoid at all cost such inflammatory talk in the future. I'd conclude with a simple: "I need to know that you have heard me and understand me." And whatever they say, you have acquitted yourself (or DH has) and walk away without further discussion.

But I am one to talk. We got one Silent Treat too many. Because of extra circumstances that made compromise unacceptable, we acquiesced and went silent ourselves, and that was about all she wrote, other than a year or so of written abuse and public smear campaigns.

Good luck with this. You and DH promise each other to stay ever so close to each other. It is a shame when we let people who do not reliably love us interfere with those who do.

[Seven]

Thanks guys.  I started in this forum years ago strictly due to the ILs.  Then realized my mother is uNPD covert, this the start of some major delving into MY family dysfunction.

DH has reiterated to them many times that he has worked very hard to fix the relationship that THEY broke at the time I got on here.  We've taken them for gambling getaways with free room for them, birthday dinners, all with complaints.  It's why he doesn't want to do for them.  As someone said either on here or on reddit, he's a great son...they are shitty parents.  Of course he is just looking for validation from them that they messed up.  He has never gotten validation from them.  Ever.  I don't know what he thinks changed.  They are mean, vindictive, entitled, forever-the-victim people.

Bloomie, they have never been one to gift give ever.  Well, except Christmas.  No bday parties, etc.  some of the stories he told me of his childhood just made me angry and sad at the same time.  We refuse to invite them to any kind of get-together anymore (ie cookouts for 7/4, etc) because they expect to be entertained the entire time.    And when they leave, never thank us for hosting...just get up and leave.  He gets along with people older than his parents better than he gets along with his parents.

Starboard, I'm aware of your story.  DH was never really a card giver.  "DH, do you want to get a card?"  Answer is always no. Mainly taking them out to dinner for bdays, which they bitch about too.  Everything done for them is bitched about. He keeps trying yet gets the same disappointment.

Maybe just a phone call, which I'm sure will devolve into the same old same old, but I like the "I need to know you've heard and understand me" line.  They are boundary stompers for sure.  A simple "call before you come over" goes in one ear and out the other.

[Cat of the Canals]

I would ask him what he thinks feels right. My husband recently gaslit himself into thinking it would be a grand idea to send uPD mil an elaborate Mother's Day present. In the past, the most we have ever done was a phone call. He asked if I wanted to do the same for my uPD mother, and I thought for a few seconds and said, "No." I felt deep in my bones that it wouldn't be right.

I'll admit to feeling a little guilty that I can't just be generous with her the way I would be with almost anyone else, but I'm learning to be comfortable with that kind of feeling. I know that guilt is just my inner people-pleaser talking, and she has terrible instincts. 

If your husband's gut says that calling or doing anything requiring direct contact feels wrong, then I think he should listen to that.

[Starboard Song]

A simple "call before you come over" goes in one ear and out the other.

Ha! I actually just heard a colleague in real life share his solution to that problem. He and his wife agreed that whenever his parents show up unannounced, they grab their car keys and meet the parents at the door saying, "uh oh. We were just on our way out. If you'd have called ahead I could have warned you." And they literally go get in their car and drive away. They circle around the neighborhood for about 5 minutes and come right back. I was just dying laughing at the very idea. Apparently they got the message after about three tries.

I love that one.

[Seven]

Starboard,

Yep. Great idea.  Only problem is the way our house is set up, we don't even know they're here until they're walking into our back door, without knocking of course, which means they had to come through a closed gate in the back yard.   The only time we can tell someone is here is if the dog is outside and he barks.  They Never go to the front door.

We live in the country away from things on a few acres.  I can walk around outside scantily clad if I wanted to and no one would know.  So yep, I'll walk around inside my house in skivvies all day if I want, but I can't because...PEOPLE!

[Leonor]

I don't know if you can help your DH set boundaries beyond setting and standing by your own.

What level of engagement can *you* tolerate with your ILs? Start there.

For instance, put a lock on your back door!

Now, notice what happens in your body when you think about putting a lock on your back door and keeping the key just for you and DH.

If you feel relieved, then you feel good setting your boundaries. If you feel uncomfortable, then that's where the work needs to start.

For example, if you feel your stomach get tight or your muscles tense, listen carefully to the "yeah, but ..." racing in your brain.

"Yeah, but they're going to ask why they can't just walk in anymore"

"Yeah, but DH is probably going to give them a key anyway"

"Yeah but that seems so harsh"

All of those "yeah, buts" mean one thing: you don't feel like *you* deserve to matter in your own home.

Remember the old airplane oxygen mask routine? You have to put on your own mask before you can help others.

[Cat of the Canals]

Hell, I'd put a lock on the door AND a latch on the inside of the gate so they're forced to go to the front door and knock like any other visitor. 

[Seven]

 the back door does have a digital lock that needs a pin code, but when we're home it always opened unless it's winter.  We have an Arlo pointed at the back gate, driveway, front door, etc, but again while we're home they are not set. We are self-employed and work from home.  The back gate has a latch but I wouldn't know how to lock it.  And come to think of it, there are three gates to our chain link fence, one on either side of the house and one in the back.  So if they really wanted to, they'd find a way.

I feel like making a sign for the front yard "IF YOU DIDN'T ANNOUNCE YOUR PRESENCE BEFOREHAND, TURN AROUND AND GO HOME."

DH doesn't like anyone showing up unannounced either, but he also doesn't like confrontation.  If our friends do it, it's easy to tell them "hey, can you call ahead next time?" and it's never an issue.  With the parents though, it's like the world has ended! It's the hugest offense ever!  Their sense of entitlement is immeasurable.

He's getting there though with the ILs.  He doesn't make excuses for them.  He has yelled at them before for coming over unannounced, we weren't home, and they proceeded to open garages and garden sheds to leave stuff.  "I don't do that to you, don't do it to me"

DH has known my stance with the ILs from their shenanigans years ago.  And he knows that I leave him to deal with them. 

[Thru the Rain]

I would ask him what he thinks feels right. 

I too have helped my DH navigate his relationship with his family, especially his uNF. And when I've asked DH to think about what would feel best TO HIM, it really helps him when I then endorse that idea.

I sounds like you and your DH had very different holiday/gift/card traditions - and your DH has essentially adopted your traditions. He may just need a confirmation from you that it's OK to not send cards when that act feels like he's being untrue to himself.

And in the event he does decide to send a card, I can tell you Mothers Day and my Mother's birthday cards are the hardest cards I pick out all year. I look for a card that expresses nothing more than acknowledging "happy mother's day" or "happy birthday". Some years I've bought a blank card so I could express only the exact sentiment. No "I love you", No "you're the best Mom". No "I'm so lucky to have you as a Mom and a friend". I won't send even a preprinted card that doesn't accurately portray my (lack of warm) feelings. 

[Seven]

So I told DH that I had reached out to the forum to get advice and told him stay true to yourself.

I asked him "what did you do before me?" 
He said "well exW use to send a plant" (she is a florist).
Isaid "no, what did YOU do?" 
"Nothing.  No cards, no dinner,"
I said "a phone call will just devolve into how shitty of a son you are".
He agreed and that's not what he wants to deal with. He really doesn't want to speak to them at all

So it comes down to a text message.  That's what he's willing to do.  To a phone that HE pays for.   More money than they know what to do with and he pays for both their iphones.  Oh well if they don't know how to text.

[bloomie]

So it comes down to a text message.  That's what he's willing to do.

Whew! Sometimes it takes a minute to get clear and know what is best to do or not do in a given situation. Empowering to you both that you worked through this together.