LC/ VLC provoking silence from them ?

[nanotech]

It's tricky. I didn't have much to lose by the non contact with siblings. They were being distant, weird and frosty anyway. It used to upset me.  I used to do a lot of fawning and I lied to myself that these were healthy, reciprocal relationships. I realised I'm never going to please them so I've liberated myself by no longer trying. I'm unbothered about what they think, say or do about me. It's slightly sad but incredibly freeing.
I have low contact with my elderly Ndad. He's aware that I have no contact with the others. He's been okay on that.

Hmmm, Look at the reasons why you want to contact them. Ensure it isn't just obligation. I used to think that was a strong enough reason.
In my view, if your family are PDs, it isn't.
Good luck,  whatever you decide to do.

[Sheppane]

It's tricky. I didn't have much to lose by the non contact with siblings. They were being distant, weird and frosty anyway. It used to upset me.  I used to do a lot of fawning and I lied to myself that these were healthy, reciprocal relationships.

Thanks nanotech I'm sorry you've experienced this too but I hear a lot of hope in what you said. I think I'm still at that stage of sadness. You are right I am lying to myself that this is a healthy relationship. I mean , I know it isn't and it is not reciprocal in any way,  but I guess hearing it phrased like that helps to accept it. I've stopped fawning and now I hear very little. It's like my only value was to bring dysfunction.
The way my FOO works if you lose one you lose them all. I am either in favour or not. So I guess I feel weight of the entire FOO crushing down on me based on what happens with this relationship. In honesty that's probably my notice to contact. Not to lose them all. Or maybe to give myself a chance to " see" it ?? Maybe I need yet again to have one of those crazy conversations to get over my self doubt and finally see and accept reality.

[Leonor]

Hi Sheppane,

I'm so sorry it's so hard right now ... And right now is the healing opportunity!

Your family's ST is intended to trigger all of these terrible feelings in you. They are intentionally withholding love in order to make you feel unloved. Because if you feel unloved and abandoned, you will do anything to win their love ... Even sacrifice yourself to their abuse.

What is coming up for you right now is all of the "yuck" that you're carrying inside deep in your soul from the trauma of growing up without love. In pain. In trauma. You've had to hide it, bury it and deny it, for so long. Because what would happen if you have it a voice? Let it show? Ask for help?

You're living it. Abandonment.

Right now everything in you is desperate for relief. All the hurt, it felt to me like the pain was seeping from my pores of my skin.

If you call, you will be punished. You will be guilted and shamed, but if you give enough supply, if you kiss the ring and promise never, ever to do that again, you will be forgiven and embraced in a show of maternal love.

Until the next time.

Now, stay gentle. Keep kind. Surround yourself with softness. Go for a long walk. Smell flowers and watch birds. Sip ice tea. Feel the warmth of the sun or the cooling rain on your skin. Breathe.

And when you think you can't stand it one more second, breathe again.

[Sheppane]

Thank you Leonor  yes when I realise that this is what's intended even if its not totally conscious that sure puts a different light on things.

I have had exactly that experience of the pain coming out through my skin. Even said it to doctor recently. Its so painful.

My self doubt keeps coming back " it's not THAT bad " to insulate me from feeling the pain and the " yuck" you describe.

I guess if it's " not that bad " or even strange as it seems if I begin to believe that I'm the one doing the abandoning it distracts me from the pain of reality.

I realise I have a huge fear that I AM the one who is doing the abandoning. And I really do want the relief from it.

I'll try what you suggested


" Now, stay gentle. Keep kind. Surround yourself with softness. Go for a long walk. Smell flowers and watch birds. Sip ice tea. Feel the warmth of the sun or the cooling rain on your skin. Breathe."

Thank you for your kindness 🙏

[Cat of the Canals]

I realise I have a huge fear that I AM the one who is doing the abandoning. And I really do want the relief from it.

Have you read Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist? If not, I highly recommend it. It describes this exact pattern of being punished/hurt/abused by the narcissist and then feeling compelled to do anything to get yourself back in their good graces. Because then it's "over." You fixed it. You can go back to normal. For a while, at least. Until the next little thing sets them off. And then the trauma bond cycle begins again.

[moglow]

Sheppane, I've been following this thread and my heart hurts for you. Well, it hurts when I'm not flat out mad at the way you're being treated. I remind myself that we have choices just like they do, and it doesn't really matter what they think of our choices. We're all individuals, not joined at the brain!

What's helped me when I doubt my own choice of silence is actually fairly simple in concept: What do you actually talk about when you call? Do you share your lives with laughter, compassion, warmth, encouragement? Or is it tense, singeing you around the edges as you tiptoe through conversational landmines? Is it "I can't wait to tell them about this!" or "I guess it's time for me to call. What the hell are we going to talk about?"

Don't misunderstand, I still doubted mine and her intentions but the answer to those questions helps reinforce and guide me going forward. What she thinks and how she feels aren't mine to manage - that's ALL on her. If she wants to be rude, she can do that - and I take another step back and away. Talk down to, minimize me and my thoughts? I won't share them again. Ridicule and sneer at any good news in my life? I shut it down and we talk about the weather going forward.

Yes, it's painful at times to not be able to share the good things or seek compassion when going through the bad, but refusing to put myself in that position has helped me more. She can't take potshots at me and my life if I refuse to give her ammunition.

Sometimes silence from them truly is golden, even when it's petty silent treatment.

[Sheppane]

Thanks CatoftheCanals and Moglow
. Sorry I am only getting to reply now.

Yes I have read that book and thank you for the reminder I will take it out again as I looked through it recently I forgot how empowering it was. The first time I read it I got so much validation from it which really helps when I feel so much self doubt.

Thank you moglow for understanding the pain of this. I forget how hurt I feel. I think of something I wish to share and that I don't share because of my need to protect myself.  And that hurts. It's grief I guess. No easy way through.

So much of my self doubt is tied in with fear of what might happen next. I'd almost rather have the rage so I could see it clearly and move on. Dunno if that makes sense but I think it's almost that I need to see some overt rage towards me in order for me to know I'm doing the right thing. Instead the system recalibrates , stays quiet and minimally communicative.  I'm then left thinking see? It's actually me? I'm causing all this drama in my head.  That's the crazy part.
One day at a time.

[Cat of the Canals]

So much of my self doubt is tied in with fear of what might happen next. I'd almost rather have the rage so I could see it clearly and move on. Dunno if that makes sense but I think it's almost that I need to see some overt rage towards me in order for me to know I'm doing the right thing. Instead the system recalibrates , stays quiet and minimally communicative.  I'm then left thinking see? It's actually me? I'm causing all this drama in my head.  That's the crazy part.
One day at a time.

I've definitely been there. Recently, even. Something happened earlier this year that gave me an opportunity to request a little space from PDmom. It had nothing to do with her, so she's mostly respected it. And the complete lack of any raging means the doubt creeps in... Maybe all I had to do all along was set boundaries. Maybe all the weirdness in our relationship is from me. Maybe I just haven't given her a fair chance.

But I remind myself that this isn't actually an anomaly. My mother is well-behaved most of the time. So much so that most people who know her would never believe that she'd be capable of having a full-blown toddler-style tantrum when my 18mo nephew wanted grandpa to read him a book instead of grandma. Just imagine how fragile her ego must be to get her feelings hurt by a BABY.

Also, I guarantee that if I didn't have this tragic circumstance as an "excuse" for requesting some space, the whole thing would have gone over like a lead balloon. But because of how things played out, she can't send in the flying monkeys or play waif without looking insensitive. And she's very good at keeping up appearances.

I can't remember if we've discussed journaling at all in this thread, but I've found that to be a helpful both in sorting out my thoughts and for documenting the dysfunction in a way that I can go back and see, "This has happened before. It's a pattern. I'm not crazy."

And lastly, to echo something often said on this board: the degree or type of abuse matters a lot less than how the person's behavior makes you feel. And it doesn't sound like these are people that make you feel very good. That says enough right there.

[Sheppane]

"And the complete lack of any raging means the doubt creeps in... Maybe all I had to do all along was set boundaries. Maybe all the weirdness in our relationship is from me. Maybe I just haven't given her a fair chance."

YES! Thanks CatoftheCanals. Isn't it so hard to call when things are calm..

The reminder to look at patterns is great too- I do journal but I'm often so stuck dealing with whatever trigger that maybe I miss the birds eye view. The memory of oh yes I've been here before.

How someone makes me feel is indeed a good marker. I always minimise the behaviour with " it's not THAT bad " or " I'm overcalling it ". The good relationships in my life are with people who ....I feel good around. Simple! It's so easy to get caught in a mire of confusion with this stuff.

I'm also thinking maybe I don't get the birds eye view coz this bird keeps flying into the same window 

[Dandelion]

ST is golden, I agree.  In my experience the longer it goes on the better.  The mental and emotional wrestling with and confusion with ST and NC in the earlier months has slowly abated.  Just more recently I have felt the clarity and peace :-).

[Call Me Cordelia]

Yep! My ILs are becoming more and more proficient at giving my DH the prolonged ST. I'm enjoying it lol.

[BrightMoon]

So I have needed to set some boundaries around how often I make contact with FOO. Mom/ sis v enmeshed duo sisuBPD mom enabler / both have cov narc traits. What I'm noticing is as I have reduced frequency of contact it doesn't provoke hoovering as others have mentioned here...but silence. Im now the only one making contact. Have I just been discarded? Provoked an abandonment reaction and rather than them feeling abandoned I'm abandoned first?  I did have to set a boundary recently and got a passive aggressive response...silence since then..so I have decided to wait it out rather than go running back.  Except I know if I do not make contact no one else will and if I persist , wait , it will go on forever and I will ultimately be blamed ie I feel I'm getting silent treatment and being set up to either cave or else expose myself to ' you havent called for weeks /months ' which at that stage would likely be true if I leave it go on. I feel I'm stuck and sucked into a game. Don't know whether to make contact and risk exposing myself to the whole DARVO thing  or do nothing- and then be accused of not making contact for weeks - which would then be true and they would be in a position of power over me. I know this works both ways and they could equally call but if I say that it will end up in a circular conversation. So confused. Other alternative is to call as usual and not reference it, see what happens.
Anyone else get this ? I have read more about LC triggering increased contact/ hoover manoeuvres,  not less.

Many things are possible - could be a deliberate attempt at passive aggressive behaviour from them. Or could be innocent, but since we're talking bad parents, I doubt that. Could be they are not in touch with their emotions so told themselves, 'fine, we wont make any effort' but that inside them emotions are building. could be they are fighting with each other daily because of these changes. Or it might be it takes time for these things to happen with them.

Having said all that-I've been through the same, and it really hurt and upset me. But when I was finally able to get enough distance from it, and it took a lot of time, I just realised that for me it was yet another example of lack of care or interest in me from parents whod had a history of that with me, and were still causing me pain, and to also note that despite my cutting them off, the truth was it was not a choice I WANTED to make-but one that I HAD to. When I first made it I wasnt sure, had doubts, didnt know if it would be for long. Now I had time to step back I am able to observe, as others posted here today, and just note its painful to me, so I need to be extra kind to myself, extra loving, and that it seems no matter what, I am unable to alter for the better in any way, my parents awful behaviour, and that this realisation was something I needed time to grieve.

The very short version of what Im saying is that by noticing how this makes you feel, and what they did, if you are able to avoid feeling overwhelmed by it being too painful, give yourself some time and love and space, and then you may look back and it can become helpful and instructive to you regarding your future choices, and it being a further example of how it is important to try to shift focus away from what they do or dont do, and onto yourself and making sure you use all that energy you once used coping with them in order to build a good life for yourself, one with joy, and colours, and fun, and warmth, and stability.

[Dandelion]

Cordelia, yes it slow-ly gets peaceful and quite nice after a while doesn't it?

Bright moon, what a beautiful ending to your post. Agree ultimately it's about moving forward and living and enjoy our own lives.  However the earlier part of your post also prompted one more reflection re silent treatment (!)

This is from what I've observed when my mother has given OTHERS the ST.  With her sister, my dad, with a few friends.  She thinks they are in the wrong and she is in the right, simples in a way!  Even if the "transgression", real or imagined, is very minor.

She also doesn't appear to "miss" them.  It's like a 'been there, done that' sort of thing.  Sometimes there is "devaluing" of that person.  Sometimes fury and hatred if she feels especially slighted.  Other times it's a shoulder shrug, just a pragmatic moving on.  Whatever the particularities,  there is no self reflection.  There is no consideration of the damage or hurt she has caused them.  Black and white thinking and little to no seeing of the bigger picture. 

So, in my case, I think my mother thinks she is in the right.  I am not important anyway, nor are my feelings.  She may see herself as the victim too, now that she is ageing and a few waif factors come into play. 

Finally even when she has renewed relationships, though never for long, she still believes she was "right" before. After a while though the relationships become so damaged from it all, that they become unsalvageable and people move on.  The personality-disordered don't seem to mind though, I believe they are happy with their behaviour and decisions. I believe they have much the same approach with their adult children.