When did you notice something was off, and how long did you end up staying?

[Boat Babe]

It has been enlightening for me to see how many other people get 'trapped' in situations like mine and take years to get out of it! Great forum !

Isn't it just

[Poison Ivy]

My divorce was finalized at a hearing five years ago today. I have zero regrets about the divorce but a few about the 31-year marriage that preceded it. I continue to live and learn. I appreciate very much the people who post on this forum and the resources it provides about personality disorders.

[carnation5]

Something was off very early in dating. He talked a lot about himself and had a strange, cold way of reasoning about relationships. I knew he was a weirdo going into it so I thought that I just needed to accept him for who he was. He was also funny and charming so I assumed he had a good heart. He showered me with gifts and compliments. I figured the lack of emotional intelligence was due to some kind of autistic trait, and I didn't want to judge.

There were so many red flags that were so overt that I thought he was joking and I didn't take them to heart. He kept saying things like "I have a really huge ego", "I am really good at x", "the world is too slow for me", "I am too arrogant to care", "you have to treat people like your puppets" and on and on. I thought he was just trying to be funny. He was extremely self absorbed and made every conversation and situation about him. He never suggested any activities. He was condescending and always had to be right. He idealized and devalued people.

I was clueless and stayed for 6 years. We constantly broke up and got back together.

It wasn't until after it was all finally over that I started to understand the full picture. I went to two separate therapists and both were very clear that this was an emotionally disturbed person. I still don't know how to accept it.

[Blackbird11]

Same as many others. Saw glimmers during the first 6 years of dating, but he never went too far.

Everybody LOVES him. Life of the party. Will give you the shirt off his back. I felt something was not quite right before we got engaged. When he proposed I almost said no - but we were on vacation and people were staring at us.

I broke off the engagement for a day when we returned home, but he talked me back into it and really knew which buttons to push.

Well - a few months into being married I almost broke it off. I never made or received my wedding album. That we paid for. I was so distraught from the increasing verbal and emotional abuse.

I turned to my family during that time and they didn't think it was that bad. After all - he was such a stand up guy! They pushed me to go to counseling and not get divorced.

A few months later I got pregnant. He was actually better during my pregnancy but after the baby arrived it went straight to hell and I knew I had to get out. Best decision I ever made. I got my life back.

[CagedBirdSinging]

Realised something was up shortly after he arrived in my country, having 'given up everything' to be with me. At first it was just a niggle. Hmmm he seems a bit odd, maybe depression?! Then started to notice I felt much more relaxed when he was not at home. Started to love Monday mornings. Still do. Love love mondays, when he is gone to work and weekend is over. Anyway I buried it- after all, he had given up everything, I couldn't very well send him packing. He had sold his house, rehomed his pets, given up his rented home, quit his job. I couldn't tell him to leave (obviously in hindsight that is exactly what I should have done). Perhaps he was just homesick? Things got worse over the years..rages, erratic mood swings, silent treatment.. around 3 years into the marriage he was diagnosed with a pd OR I should say re-diagnosed, because it turned out he had been diagnosed with pd many times before. He had just never told me.

I left him at 3 years in, then left again recently at around 5 years. I struggle with it still - this 'I gave up everything for you' thing. What a perfect pd trap. What a perfect way to tie someone to you and keep them in a state of obligation for life. We have small kids, and I worry if I made the right choice (numerous other threads).

This is an interesting thread. It is a painful topic to reflect on, and I just want to send love to everyone who posted here

[ploughthrough2021]

Same as many others. Saw glimmers during the first 6 years of dating, but he never went too far.

Everybody LOVES him. Life of the party. Will give you the shirt off his back. I felt something was not quite right before we got engaged. When he proposed I almost said no - but we were on vacation and people were staring at us.

I broke off the engagement for a day when we returned home, but he talked me back into it and really knew which buttons to push.

Well - a few months into being married I almost broke it off. I never made or received my wedding album. That we paid for. I was so distraught from the increasing verbal and emotional abuse.

I turned to my family during that time and they didn't think it was that bad. After all - he was such a stand up guy! They pushed me to go to counseling and not get divorced.

A few months later I got pregnant. He was actually better during my pregnancy but after the baby arrived it went straight to hell and I knew I had to get out. Best decision I ever made. I got my life back.

I respect you very much because you homed in to the problem and resolved it quite early unlike others including me who are still in there after 30 years !  I tried to get out earlier but failed everytime.  Now, after 30 years, with all 3 kids grown up I am determined.

[ploughthrough2021]

Realised something was up shortly after he arrived in my country, having 'given up everything' to be with me. At first it was just a niggle. Hmmm he seems a bit odd, maybe depression?! Then started to notice I felt much more relaxed when he was not at home. Started to love Monday mornings. Still do. Love love mondays, when he is gone to work and weekend is over. Anyway I buried it- after all, he had given up everything, I couldn't very well send him packing. He had sold his house, rehomed his pets, given up his rented home, quit his job. I couldn't tell him to leave (obviously in hindsight that is exactly what I should have done). Perhaps he was just homesick? Things got worse over the years..rages, erratic mood swings, silent treatment.. around 3 years into the marriage he was diagnosed with a pd OR I should say re-diagnosed, because it turned out he had been diagnosed with pd many times before. He had just never told me.

I left him at 3 years in, then left again recently at around 5 years. I struggle with it still - this 'I gave up everything for you' thing. What a perfect pd trap. What a perfect way to tie someone to you and keep them in a state of obligation for life. We have small kids, and I worry if I made the right choice (numerous other threads).

This is an interesting thread. It is a painful topic to reflect on, and I just want to send love to everyone who posted here

You have made the right choice.  I didn t leave early and have endured a painful life for 25 years....

[Blackbird11]

I respect you very much because you homed in to the problem and resolved it quite early unlike others including me who are still in there after 30 years !  I tried to get out earlier but failed everytime.  Now, after 30 years, with all 3 kids grown up I am determined.

I respect you ploughthrough. The amount of strength and resilience that must have taken! You are now taking your life back too. Good for you!!!

[Free2Bme]

Great thread.

I noticed something was off 3 months in, we were married for 20 years. 
After 4 months of love bombing, he proposed and we moved in.  Things quickly changed and became exponentially worse.  He was unable to resolve/negotiate/compromise on any issue, no matter how small.  The chronic lying, sneaking, raging, berating, jealousy, control, punishment, pushing, shoving where in full swing.  I wanted to call of wedding. He pressured me to set a date.  I had just given up my apartment and entered a FT degree program.   

Many years, I stayed home with kids and lived in two worlds.  Being with kids was wonderful, but it all changed when he was home.  I told myself I could manage the situation for the sake of having a 2 parent home and all the rest as long as he was good to the kids.  The control/punishment cycle was mind-bending, and he began acting out on the children (mentally, emotionally, physically).  When kids became teens, they started calling BS on him.  I was really weak from decades of gaslighting and trying to hold it all together.  My oldest approached me and said she though he was a psychopath.  DS asked if dad had a demon.  I noticed H would lie to me about the children's behavior triangulating me and them, and them against each other.  I learned he was lying to my family, our church, neighbors, everyone about me.  It was a surreal wake up call. 

As I started setting boundaries and pulling away, he became very unstable.  It was a scary, terrible year.  I had been planning my escape for some time.  When I had a chance, I packed up and left.  Never looked back. 

[SonofThunder]

It has been enlightening for me to see how many other people get 'trapped' in situations like mine and take years to get out of it! Great forum !

Yes agree      I'm in 30 years next week.  Dated off/on for 3 years, and love-bombing all 3 and into the first 2 years of marriage.  The 3rd year in, the odd behavior surfaced.  Gone fully through the IDD (idealization, devalue, discard) cycles about every 3 years with me being deeply in the FOG while raising 2 kids and a growing business of my own.  Such a blur for so many years with PD behavior from every angle possible and exhaustion on my part .

We were about the the end of the 7th IDD cycle when I came Out of the FOG, recognizing the cycles and beginning my deep dive into PD's and understanding myself (very crucial to my education).  Then, at the start of 'discard' in the 8th IDD cycle in July 2018,  I was then educated enough to separate from her for 60 days, just enough to test her 'fear of abandonment' trait in its full-on mode, to completely understand what I would face in a true divorce.  I came back home from my departure to expected love-bombing and devalue but this time it's different because I am very well protected by the toolbox and understanding myself well, and actually not allowing the discard to occur, as I'm proactively indifferent to it and she's stuck in perpetual short cycles of devalue/discard attempts and getting very frustrated, as nothing is having an effect on my neutrality to either discard or devalue.   

It has taken me almost 10 years to financially ready myself for divorce.  I have many real estate assets and a business with 15+ employees that could all be possibly affected by divorce to my PDw and I have been having to be very frugal (with a very showy PDw) to preserve enough ready assets to survive intact in my state where it's 50/50 on divorce.  I'm seeing actions from my PDw that are new, with regard to texting very late in the evening, hiding her phone and reverting to her phones home button/screen when I walk into the room.  I respect her electronic privacy, because I value mine as well and I will not be a hypocrite regarding.  So, just waiting for her mistakes is my current holding pattern.   

SoT

[ploughthrough2021]

It has been enlightening for me to see how many other people get 'trapped' in situations like mine and take years to get out of it! Great forum !

Yes agree      I'm in 30 years next week.  Dated off/on for 3 years, and love-bombing all 3 and into the first 2 years of marriage.  The 3rd year in, the odd behavior surfaced.  Gone fully through the IDD (idealization, devalue, discard) cycles about every 3 years with me being deeply in the FOG while raising 2 kids and a growing business of my own.  Such a blur for so many years with PD behavior from every angle possible and exhaustion on my part .

We were about the the end of the 7th IDD cycle when I came Out of the FOG, recognizing the cycles and beginning my deep dive into PD's and understanding myself (very crucial to my education).  Then, at the start of 'discard' in the 8th IDD cycle in July 2018,  I was then educated enough to separate from her for 60 days, just enough to test her 'fear of abandonment' trait in its full-on mode, to completely understand what I would face in a true divorce.  I came back home from my departure to expected love-bombing and devalue but this time it's different because I am very well protected by the toolbox and understanding myself well, and actually not allowing the discard to occur, as I'm proactively indifferent to it and she's stuck in perpetual short cycles of devalue/discard attempts and getting very frustrated, as nothing is having an effect on my neutrality to either discard or devalue.   

It has taken me almost 10 years to financially ready myself for divorce.  I have many real estate assets and a business with 15+ employees that could all be possibly affected by divorce to my PDw and I have been having to be very frugal (with a very showy PDw) to preserve enough ready assets to survive intact in my state where it's 50/50 on divorce.  I'm seeing actions from my PDw that are new, with regard to texting very late in the evening, hiding her phone and reverting to her phones home button/screen when I walk into the room.  I respect her electronic privacy, because I value mine as well and I will not be a hypocrite regarding.  So, just waiting for her mistakes is my current holding pattern.   

SoT

Hi SonofThunder, right now without this Website, I would be lost.  It has given me so much strength.  Even she noticed that. She has been wondering who is changing me to this revitalized person but I would never tell her about this Website.  It beats therapy anyday, Knowledge is Power !  I wish you luck on finding your life back !

[SonofThunder]

Thank you.  So glad that Out of the FOG has been such a great resource for you and all of us.  I also want to use this reply to point something out, in which some younger folks may not put much thought.   

To all who may read this thread and wonder how so many of us have been in PD marriages for multiple decades;  the internet and ability to widely research outside of a local library (not private) is something new in the last 20 years.  Prior to mobile smartphones and non-dialup methods to connect to the web, secrecy in research was nearly impossible, resources sparse and tech was so very slow and expensive.

In addition, prior to the 1980's, personality disorders were not as highly understood/grouped in the DSM publications, so therefore for some of us married in the late 80's/early 90's, professionals were not very schooled as they are today, so again, info as you have available today was not there for us. 

So, as hard as it has been to be in a PD marriage for 3 decades, I'm so happy for those who can now enjoy the benefits of extensive, convenient, private research and the rich info that is available, as well as places like Out of the FOG to learn and share.  These resources may help to shorten the percentages of those folks, like myself, who end up being in the FOG for such a long period. 

SoT

[Happytobefree]

We dated for 8 mths prior to getting married.  It was a whirlwind "romance" and I happily (at the time) got caught up in it, not recognizing it as love bombing.  I was 10 yrs older, and in my early 50s when we got together. 

Looking back after reading and researching as much I could about NPDs, the warning signs were there, but I naively and stupidly ignored them, mainly because of my own codependency.  I do remember when we first started talking about marriage and he said to me, "I do see the benefits of marriage..."  Nothing about wanting to be with me because he loved me...he married me for what I could do for him, which in his mind was everything.  My only purpose in our marriage was to serve him, and the only reason why he didn't discard me earlier was because I was going to sell my house and use the equity to pay off the HELOC loan he had taken out on "our" new dream house and had spent on trailbuilders to convert our rocky backyard into a mountain bike park. 

The week before my house was to go on the market and 14 mths after we eloped, good friends staged an informal intercession and told me "This is not love.  Your house is your only asset left.  Don't sell until he shows that you and your marriage is his priority."  The night before my house listing was to go live, I pulled it off the market.  2 mths later I filed for divorce.

It isn't finalized yet, but the settlement agreement has been agreed upon (according to his lawyer) but hasn't been signed. 

He discarded me in his heart less than a year after our marriage when he told me he had "lost a lot of love for me because of my 'behavior'".  I should have walked then, but I waited 5 more months, hoping he'd seek individual therapy (which I had insisted on) and put our marriage first.  Nope!  Never happened.  Because that would have required him to own his own shit, rather than blaming me for everything.  I remember our last "joint" video session with my therapist when she called him out for being condescending and controlling.  He actually agreed and said, "I didn't cause this, so I don't need therapy." 

Sorry for the ramble.  It's good every now and then to remind myself that it wasn't all my fault. 

[Kat54]

What a popular thread. There were so many red flags with my uNPexH. But with my own issues of feeling like I didn't deserve better I constantly forgave his horrible behavior while dating on and off for 10 years. He even cheated on me a couple times to which we did break up but then that went into the past.
He was always the life of the party and the friendliest guy anyone knew. But behind the scenes he was actually a very angry person.  I would say about 10 years in to our 24 year marriage I knew I wanted out and there would be no trying to get him to make changes. Our kids were young and there was no way I would be able to stand up against him so I decided to make it work and give up things in my life that would make me happy In order to keep him happy. But as the years marched on and his anxiety and anger got worse with him exing put more and more friends and family, it became more difficult and the constant barking and yelling, controlling behavior wore me down to the point of contemplating suicide.
Some days I cry more from happiness that I got away from him with no regrets.  My kids not so much, though my son is moving out of my ex's house soon which leaves my daughter with him. I pray she will also have strength and get away from him, as he relies heavily on her for everything. He is very needy also.

[Poison Ivy]

Thanks to everyone who has posted here. (I started the thread.)

I have been thinking lately about "off" stuff that occurred in my marriage 10 years ago specifically. 2011 was a very difficult year for me. There were legal problems (state asked for repayment of unemployment benefits, one child got a DUI); husband did an intensive outpatient treatment program that he enjoyed but that didn't seem to help much; husband began ghosting me when he started a "temporary" gig out of town, at the same time our children were far away (both in college, one doing study abroad in an African country); husband avoided me and didn't help at all with household chores when he wasn't out of town. Four years later, I filed for divorce, and the divorce was finalized the next year.

[PAY]

I just read through this thread and thought I'd add my story as a good reminder for ME!

There were instances of anger/rage when we were dating-but never directed at me.  I remember it affecting me-my mother was an UnBPD with lots of rage and it scared me.
There were rages, job losses (always the boss or co-worker's fault), mood swings, control, complaining.  Our divorce was just final last week.  We'd been married 21.5 years.  I'd say the first 15 weren't bad and again, the anger wasn't directed at me.  There was what I came to call "always trying to talk me into something".  Moving mostly-but with job losses, I was the bread winner and moving did not seem financially prudent at the time.

Years 0-15, despite the above, he was mostly thoughtful and kind.  I developed health issues (still trying to sort out how much is due to the FOG and anger).  He "took care of me"-but sometimes with a battle.  He also helped me care for my dear father.  But it turned out it was all with strings attached.  There was a big fight with a meltdown 5 days before my father died-where I broke an N rule by siding with my sister who was there at the time and it was about him giving my father medication when I'd said no one gives him meds but my sister and I.  He ended up sending us both flowers and said "It was never happen again".  He started working on his anger issues (identified as being addicted to anger).  The next 18 months were good.
Then he found out that my sister and I were going to keep the inheritance in trust and not take our individual portions ourselves.  Of course he went ballistic and that's really the beginning of the end. 
There are a few more pieces to the deterioration but y'all know how the story goes.
He never regained control over his anger.  He became obsessed with the money and control of the money.  We saw a therapist in the fall of 2019.  That's when I started becoming more assertive and clear.
Then during covid, I started becoming educated about PD, found Out of the FOG from my therapist, set more boundaries, which accelerated his anger.

I am currently so sad about the demise of the marriage.  I have had a really strong grief reaction to the finalization of the divorce.  I needed to come on this forum and be reminded about why I left and that the "good" guy doesn't exist anymore, if he ever did.