BIL nasty over Cabin

[Danie]

Thirteen years ago my husband (Jim) and I purchased a cabin with his brother (Pedro) and his family. Not real names. I have had a lot of issues with Pedro and they are getting more upsetting. The whole idea was to be financially frugal and be "family". Neither family can go every weekend so we share it. There has been a lot of really good things about it, it's small but we have fixed it up and made it very cozy and comfortable and fun.
I feel like Pedro is nasty to me. He doesn't really talk to me and doesn't seem the least bit interested in me and only communicates with my husband - his brother. This feels so hurtful to me and I don't trust him, with good reason. Shortly after we purchased it and were celebrating in a bar, I was sitting near Pedro and I heard someone come up to him and say, "So I hear Jim has a lot of money"? And Pedro said, "yeah and he's good at fixing things too"! I was mortified and felt like we were just in it with him to be taken advantage of. Jim is 10 years older and Pedro is a narcissist I think. He was the youngest of 5 children and catered to by his family and Jim learned how to do this with Pedro as well. I see Jim caretaking all of Pedro's mishaps at the cabin. At one point Pedro said in an e-mail, "if you guys miss a payment we can help and vice-versa". We don't need the help and I saw this as a way for us to be emergency back-up money for Pedro and his family (3 kids). That was never a part of the arrangement and we found out after the fact that Pedro used us as collateral for his cabin loan without our knowledge. In other words, if Pedro can't pay, the bank takes the whole cabin.
All of this has culminated in Pedro being cold to me and friendly to Jim. I would seriously consider getting out of it, but Jim doesn't want to. I do love it and it's is manageable except for my mental discomfort with Pedro. I see Pedro being cold and manipulative to Jim about repairs (Jim does everything). It looks like we are going to hang onto it for now so how do I mentally cope with a manipulative narcissist? Jim doesn't back me up too much and feels more loyalty to his brother.

[bloomie]

Danie - something I have found can be very revealing of another's intentions and character is sharing something... pretty much anything of worth, but especially if cooperation and partnership, fairness and equal responsibility are needed.

It would seem that you and your DH have very different thresholds or expectations for how this partnership would play out.

Are you at the cabin at the same time as Pedro or do you use it separately?

Is it possible to leave all of the coordinating and communication about the cabin between the two brothers and drop the rope on if that is balanced and fair and leave it on your DH's side of the street to work through? If Jim allows Pedro to take advantage of him that is on Jim.

I know first hand the animosity that can come from an in law sibling when they recognize you are on to them and could potentially be a barrier to the in law sibling being able to get what they want from our H's. It is painful and I have also experienced a whole lot of targeted resentment that my own H didn't see from his sister for a long time. He was used to her behavior and giving her what she wanted and absorbing the cost - both emotional and financial.

Poor behaviors when not getting what she wants had been tolerated and excused her entire life by the in law family system. She has been emboldened in her negative treatment of another family member and manages to take the advantage and keep it in any circumstance where there are shared resources and responsibilities.

In terms of how to cope mentally with a manipulative person - I have learned to have as little engagement as possible and when I do have contact to use Medium chill techniques where I am cordial and polite, but cool and self contained.

A hook for me has been 'wanting or expecting something' from a manipulative and advantage taking kind of person. Wanting/expecting to be treated with respect or acknowledged, balance and equality in certain common areas of responsibility, respectful communication, etc... I have come to a place emotionally where I want and expect absolutely nothing from my sil. She is who she is and I cannot change or cure her behaviors and I did not cause them.

What has helped me is to approach this kind of frustrating situation you are sitting with currently by deciding what works and does not work for me and then doing that. And only that.

And to build healthy boundaries that those things that I have determined do/don't work for me as an individual. The other part of boundaries is having internal set points around how much I allow myself to ruminate on all of this and how much energy I give it. And to be honest, physical boundaries are much easier for me than emotional/mental ones. 

I practice recognizing the hurt and moving through the emotions that come from my in law sibling's marginalizing, manipulative, dismissive behaviors and then choosing to let them go and not allow bitterness to grow in my heart and dictate my responses or color how I view my H - who has the right to choose what works/does not work for himself.

I found that when my emotions were not spilling all over around similar stuff that in time, when I stopped talking about it and just disengaged from as much as I possibly could, my H had space to see how unhealthy his relationship with his sibling is.

Maybe, like me, the tough part really is figuring out what another hero member All4peace calls a 'me' or 'we' problem. What is just mine versus what is a shared issue we have to come to some point of agreement on. 

Just some thoughts that I hope get the your energies heading in a direction that may lead to more peace in the situation. In the meantime, your cabin sounds lovely and I wish you much joy as you share that space with your H.

[Danie]

Wow! Good response. Incredibly helpful.
I will try and explain the arrangement a little better. Then I will let you know how I'm going to adjust my behavior.
We don't share the cabin together because it's too small. It was part of the original plan, but Pedro had more children after we purchased it and does not have any money to remodel or enlarge it. We knew it was small, but I assumed we would be fixing it up. When I found out after the fact that Pedro was living the edge financially I realized we would probably never improve it. I can accept that....I have no choice. Pedro works at a bank in a small town and they floated him a mortgage (loan for his half of the cabin) and what's crazy is that he took out a 30 year mortgage and will be paying 3X what his half was worth, but that is his problem. So now we just take turns which works out good. We used google calendar for a few years, but Pedro stopped using it---no explanation.
Pedro promised us if he can't make his payments and the bank wants the cabin back we will be informed so we can buy it. I wouldn't want his financial stress!

What had me feeling really upset was last week my husband used his week of vacation to go replace the toilet (hopefully you can get some laughs here) because it was cracked in 3 places and lopsided. It was kind of falling through the floor! Pedro always has the cabin over the 4th of July and invites another family so 9 people are using a 475 ft. cabin (un-airconditioned). I equate it to a clown-car. A tiny car where people keep coming out of it and you can't believe they all fit.
One year, this other family damaged the shower stall because they tried to fit 2 people (use your imagination) in there. Of course, Jim fixed it.
So Jim was fixing the toilet in the heat-wave and when he was done (several hours later) he video taped it and sent a video message to both me and Pedro included in the message. Since the cabin is a little off the grid the message didn't reach Pedro until an hour later, 11:30 pm. And Jim had hit "send" three times because the video wasn't sending so Pedro got 6 pictures of a toilet at 11:30 and got angry at Jim and wrote back "quit sending me photos I'm trying to sleep." Jim felt bad, but just tried to let it go.
I have a few more stories about Pedro's lack of gratitiude; like when he was there and couldn't find his corkscrew and called us mad!
So, Bloomie, thanks. I'm going to detach and drop any expectations and enjoy what it is for now. I don't trust Pedro so I will be careful about what I invest going forward, both money and effort. I really worry he's not going to be able to pay for it and somehow we'll be helping him financially. Pedro has taken on too much, I think, and I feel bad for him and his kids, but it's not my issue.

[bloomie]

I'm going to detach and drop any expectations and enjoy what it is for now. I don't trust Pedro so I will be careful about what I invest going forward, both money and effort.

That is a great strategy! So wise to be able to acknowledge that Pedro's behaviors call his character into question and to be careful going forward.

That is really funny about the multiple photos of the toilet! LOVE IT!

[Danie]

Ha, I know, makes me laugh! I guess, in a way, you can't blame him for being irritable.
I do have a problem expecting and wanting normalcy from people when it's not going to happen. BIL is pretty normal, just the baby in his family and other things that probably contribute to his personality. My husband makes it work, with him, and they have a pretty good relationship most of the time. BIL drinks a lot. I just started going Al anon again because so many good things are to be gained from it.
Bloomie - you are a hero member!

[Danie]

So this is kind of part II.
My husband's niece (not Pedro's daughter) asked if she could "stay with us" 1 night a week because she took a new job near the city we live in and it's 60 miles from her home. It will be a hell of a commute; 70 miles one way. I said yes, it will be fun. She offered to pay us $30.00 a week and I said no to that. I told her I would double-check with my husband, Jim, and get back to her with details. She agreed and then changed it to 2 nights a week.

I wrote a few reasonable things in a text and had Jim proof it. He agreed to what I was laying down as a few guidelines and questions: I also told her 1 night  would be manageable for us to start.

Our house is small. We don't have an extra room, but are willing to move things around, 1 night, and put them back - on a weekly basis.

When she wrote me back, after my text about hours and eating and some questions, she just said, "Her job was Monday through Friday. Nothing else. 

So I waited a few days, thought it over and decided either she has issues with communicating or it's a manipulation. Jim has contacted her twice and is getting the same stonewalling. We don't know if she's planning on staying here or not. The reason I'm uptight is because I'm speculating she is going to try to get in between Jim and I, like BIL and cabin and manipulate Jim against me on what she wants. Jim is a soft touch and has done handouts to nieces and nephews before, even this niece. We gave her $700.00 for a car repair after she cried to us with her problems, which were legitimate. She has had a rough background, but now she's 30 and married. We're wondering why her husband isn't helping her navigate through all this and why she couldn't say at a hotel 1 night.

I'm all for helping people get through difficult things in life (I've been there), but she is an adult now and has just earned her MS degree. She lost her job closer to her home and took this one out of fear and desperation. We see her on Facebook all the time doing her side-gig, stick-on fingernails, yet she doesn't answer to us about staying here in August. I feel disrespected on one hand, but I'm waiting to see what happens. I suspect she didn't like her uncle's wife setting some rules and she will try to work Jim for a different more fruitful deal. This would be really bad for Jim and my marriage as we have dealt with this before, like BIL and cabin.

I've written a few talking points for Jim and I pray to God he at least refers to the situation as "we said only 1 night" and not "It's okay, just drop by whenever".

My first inclination is to get mad if he does this, but I don't want to blow up. I will just calmly point out what he's done and how it makes me feel. And then, I don't know.

I would love more feedback.

[Cat of the Canals]

What you've offered is already more than generous, and it's definitely a bit alarming that she's trying to push for more before it's even started!

I think I'd sit down with Jim and have a frank discussion about what the boundaries will be with the niece, specifically what happens if she shows up expecting to camp out for more than one night. It sounds like what Jim needs more than talking points is accountability. (He really shouldn't have to explain ANYTHING to the niece aside from, "I'm sorry, but more than one night simply isn't going to work.") I think you could even address the idea of being worried that his niece disrespecting your boundaries is the kind of thing that could cause friction in your marriage. You have a whole family to think about, and that should be the priority over keeping the peace with a third party.

As for the niece, I would pester her a bit about getting back to you with her plans. She's using your own politeness against you by not responding/not directly answering your questions. I would get more direct with her and say something along the lines of, "Hey, ___. Please let me know what night you're planning on staying. I am trying to work out some things on my schedule that week, and I really need to know in advance what night you'll be here. Thanks so much!" If she doesn't respond, send another in a few days. "Just checking in because I still haven't heard from you as to what day you'll be staying." Be politely pushy. If it comes down to it, you might even need to say, "Hey, we have a very busy week, and if I haven't heard back by [day], I'm going to have to rescind the offer, as I just won't have time to host you."

I had to do this with my mother once. I told her I'd meet her for lunch when she was in town. She kept dodging my questions about what time and where we should meet because she wanted to show up at my house unannounced and ensconce herself in my living room for hours (despite the fact that I told her I was extremely busy and only had time for a quick meet-up at a restaurant). I finally told her if she didn't give me a time, then I couldn't promise I'd have time in my schedule to meet her.

Remember that this is YOUR HOME. You are under no obligation to host someone so dead set on taking your hospitality for granted.

[Danie]

Cat, you're right. I like "using your own politeness against you". I appreciate you giving me the words  to use. Sometimes we need something so obvious, to be told to us! We need the actual words spelled out.
Jim is going to try and contact her (again) and get an answer. If this doesn't work I will either consider it a moot point or maybe try to talk to her myself - that way Jim can't be a pushover and I won't get mad at him.

[bloomie]

Danie - this is your home. Your safe place and refuge. The burden to communicate politely and clearly, in a respectful and timely manner after you have set the limit of ONE night is on your niece. That is what polite and appreciative people who are receiving this kind of thoughtfulness do.

You and your DH might want to decide what night of the week works for you and for how long you are able to offer this help and kindness to your niece. And for how long? Starting/ending when? And then give her those limits to work with as you both plan ahead.

Since you have already agreed to one night it is completely appropriate to be clear about what you are offering. That seems to be your part of this to do. 

Being clear and straightforward about the limits is kind, respectful, and positions you all for the best outcome to preserve your relationship. If your limits are ignored, or not well received, then you have important info to go on to make decisions if this is going to work at all or not.

[Danie]

Thank you Bloomie