being surveilled

[tragedy or hope]

I have not seen much about this, but being surveilled by my unpdh is making me feel so angry.
Currently, we live 24/7 together. We do a few things independently but mostly are home or even have recreation together. Not all days are bad, but there are times when I want to scream to be left alone. No matter how I say it, it would cause me to be ungrateful for the attention and get a 5 min. sad story about how everything is done for me. And at some level a kind of covert abuse... being ignored etc.

Even if I choose to do something for myself, I can't get around to thinking on it because it is done for me. I am used to being in the house alone and spent many days feeling very creative and whole. Now  that I am not alone I am just trying to survive and am getting to the point that I can't think. This I believe is the goal...

My every thought is probed. Sometimes I just say I am not thinking about anything. Worse, he does not contribute any real conversation and will spend hours just saying nothing, waiting for me to make conversation.

I'm just so frustrated. Am I alone in this or does anyone else get it? 

[SeaBreeze]

I get it! Have gone through very much the same experience since Covid lockdown started last year. The toolbox really carried me through those months and helped me see, more clearly than ever, how much uNPDh seeks to control my time and, yes, my very thoughts. uNPDh is (thankfully) back to working every other week at the office, alternating with working remote. I'm still working at home but usually work nights which also (thankfully) limits interaction. Which he's complained about under the guise of "But I just want to spend more time with my wife." Um, no thanks!?

I am sorry you're dealing with this. One thing I've learned is that no matter how hard H tries to get inside my mind, it is the ONE safe, private space that is MINE and mine alone. That mental space has, in turn, helped me claim more physical space of my own as well, until I can leave altogether.

[Mary]

I'm sorry you're going through this. It sounds so frustrating. My uNPDh is home for the summer as he's a teacher and I'm feeling controlled. I do have excuses to be alone when I work from home, and then extend that time. Praying for you to find creative spaces to be alone. I wonder if you could enlist your kids to occupy him for a while.
Mary

[Free2Bme]

T/H,

I understand feeling like you are losing the real estate of your mind.  I felt similarly.


Argh.  I wonder what would happen if you put a fence around say 4 hours every day.  Tell H that you will not be available between the hours of x and x, and that if he can't respect it you will leave and get the time to yourself away from home.   I know that logical solutions that would ordinarily be respected often don't work with PD's, or come with a price tag.

I just hate to hear that you have absolutely no personal head space.  This wouldn't solve the problem, but it might give you a break.

[tragedy or hope]

 I think it is because unpdh is all in his own head about himself, and how to make himself appear as a do gooder, good husband etc. Comes unglued and frustrated seeming when he is only with me. If he were with anyone else and they changed their mind after saying something, he would be all over it. If I change my mind, I get giant sighs, frustrated tones and even his refusal to be in the same room with me. It seems to always be about him.

In public the door gets opened for me, in private behind the door I get words of hostility about the least little thing that makes HIM frustrated. It is not about winning, it is about genuine respect. I feel I get a lot of it for show out of the house, so others will surely think I am the crazy unappreciative one.

Simple example, going to burger place "b"... I see coming up to it a burger place "a" it is right next door, which I think is cool. I say, oh look there is a burger place "a"
next to it, how cool!

I get, "SO MAKE UP YOUR MIND, DO YOU WANT TO GO TO A OR B, YOU SAID A...
what do you want!? "  His interpretation was I was wrong for one thing because I did not say I was only observing and he knew it. Another thing, we agreed on "b" already. If I changed it he would be mad, and because I expressed myself he was mad. I mentioned his tone would not be used on anyone else, that he knew what I was saying and it was disrespectful. He of course denied. I try not to let bad behaviors go for my own sanity. Even just speaking my truth keeps me in my own skin.

I am expected to sit like a child while he carts me around. He seems to totally remove himself from me emotionally and I feel like I am being served. He joins me in anything if it is something I am really happy about. He will go along but will share no pleasantries or impressions of anything delightful to me. He lets me talk. Then he asks me if he can get me.... whatever. It is not a shared experience, again it is a kind of survellance.

Today in the car coming home from a long trip he did begin to talk and share MY childhood likes as his own!  Almost word for word!

I tell him when he does this. I say, That sounds exactly like what I have already told you about my life... to which he replies in a typical smart--- tone, "oh yeah, I guess it's your story and I copied it."  Yeah he did. And given the chance he will tell others so that when I share myself, and it sounds familiar... it will cause others to think I am the weirdo. He has few communication skills but can talk about himself with anyone and everyone and I sometimes can't believe how he will twist words to the subject being all about him.

I know this is not normal. Some women would die for this kind of attention but with the hostility and frustrated tones at home, I know it can't be genuine. If I do not speak up he will be quiet for hours. BUT if I want something, he will get it for me etc. As I said... I feel surveilled.

[Free2Bme]

Dear T/H,

I feel we are kindred somehow.  Many similarities in my experience with updxh (20 years).  Your posts have a theme to them, you describe your experience as "surveilling" or excessive "helping".  So, I want to say something in observation,  I intend it to be helpful and not critical.  IMO, you are minimizing H behavior by using benign descriptors for something that is very insidious and harmful. 

When I was married, I sometimes struggled to describe what I was experiencing (FOG).  Although my personality is outgoing, and I am fairly articulate, I would get so close to pinpointing updxh, but never quite hit the mark of what I NEEDED to say, as if I didn't have the language to name such a stressful and destructive relationship event.  This is what I am picking up.  I wondering if you could reframe your H behavior for what it is, without minimizing.  From what you describe, this sounds like utter, total, micromanagement and control under the guise of "help" , you are not being "served" you are being dictated to, censored, and programmed.  Although it's done under the cover of "help", it is NOT help.  It doesn't matter the package it is wrapped in, this is not loving, kind, respectful treatment.  ( I say this with care and concern.)

When you say "some women would die for this sort of attention".  I relate to this because many friends and family observed my updxh being very attentive, flirtatious, chivalrous, sacrificial, etc. towards me.  When my friends sometimes mentioned their H were slow with the honey-do list.... mine was always doing projects around the house, and it showed.  Or...their H didn't earn a lot, mine was very successful, etc.  I would somehow feel like the odd-ball because not only was that not the reality of my experience, but I couldn't articulate to them that he was what they didn't see (covertly abusive). 

In regards to the burger A or B options, my impression is that he was going to smack you down for even thinking a thought that was different from his based on his arbitrary rules  (Thought control).  You are right, it is not genuine love or care for anyone to do this to another person.

Years ago, a Christian counselor handed me a print out called, "Characteristics of a Misogynist".  This came to mind when I hear your story.  This is the list....

1. He is a knight in shining armor, "I'll save you".
2. He zeros in and chooses a woman.
3. He always wants to know where you are and who you are with.
4. He has first class spending habits, always wants more.
5.He can't stand criticism, always on the defense.
6. He is jealous , even of female friends.
7. He is exciting and charismatic.
8. He has a poor relationship with his mother, and an abusive or passive father.
9. His view of reality is distorted.
10.He is uncomfortable with feelings, and contemptuous of others' weaknesses.
11. He has a problem with authority figures.
12. He uses your secrets against you.
13.  "If you really love me, you will do this..."  Unspoken threats of withdrawal if you don't comply to his wishes.
14. He makes fun of you and inflicts little digs.
15. You feel awkward and incompetent around him. You feel controlled.
16. He embarrasses you in public, private, or both.
17. He is nasty while on the road and perceives others' driving mistakes as directed towards him.
18.  Demands your undivided attention, expects you to be available for him at all times.
19. May show cruelty toward animals.
20. Has a duel personality, ( Jekyl/Hyde).
21.  Grandiose behavior, cocky and controlling (even sexually).
22. He is competitive, must always win.

It seems his behavior is aimed at conditioning you to never oppose him, think your own thoughts, have an opinion, or ever have a moment in the day where he is not on the throne of your heart (or mind).  My updxh was this way.  I felt like I had a microchip inserted in my brain that required me to run everything through the filter of "what would updxh think, say, do if I...?"
As a Christian, I don't think I should give this place to anyone but the Lord God in heaven.  You seem like such a lovely person, I hope you can find a way to have a bit of space to breathe. 
....take care T/H

[Mary]

  I mentioned his tone would not be used on anyone else, that he knew what I was saying and it was disrespectful. He of course denied. I try not to let bad behaviors go for my own sanity. Even just speaking my truth keeps me in my own skin.

Hi T/H,
I am learning from you on this tactic. I'm considering starting to do this too because I am noticing that when I reprimand the kids on certain things like demanding rudeness, they say, "Dad does it!" Of course I tell them it's still wrong. But maybe I need to start addressing it on the spot when he does it. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Mary

[tragedy or hope]

Free..

Thank you for the list and the reminders. No offense taken. the list is almost 100% correct. yes, i agree with all of your comments.

And yes, keeping the Lord my priority is challenging. It is very comforting to be understood here. 

[1footouttadefog]

I lived with being shadowed and having everything preempted or involving the PDH.

It was like he was lost in the world and I was the only chance of interaction.

Creepy.

Later they changed his meds and this got better.  He still wants any little bit of attention he can get but there are boundaries. I moved into my own space years back and pretty much get that space.  At some poi t after supper dishes and various chores I check out for the rest of the evening.  I ask for any newslflashes, headli es or remi ders before I go down stairs each night and pretty much dont expect to se pdh before morning.

[tragedy or hope]

Wow, 1foot,

I see you have strength I do not.  My unpdh prides himself on us being in the same bed. It's like a rule he has. It is not about intimacy, it is control. What things appear to be is much more important to him, he lives in his own Norman Rockwell fantasy world.

Even if he is hating on me, his expectation will be the same. I get surveilled until I turn in. To sleep in another room is asking for a war I am not strong enough to fight. The cruelty would be worse than just acquiescing. I don't want to create a crisis, they come enough on their own. Unless I am ready to end the relationship entirely, that move would be hell for me.

Speaking of sleep... he seems to stir up conflict over nothing often just before bedtime, hence, I am not able to fall asleep easily while he, without conscience drifts off like a baby.

I pray God will give me wisdom. After 50 years and many good times, I see this to be a spiritual illness too. Though he was somewhat like this our entire life together; being a "good" Christian wife, I was more forgiving than God would have been, without him changing his ways.

I am too old to bother to do anything else but deal with it. I am comfortable but know now I had given up much of the life God has given me to enjoy.

I have had some unique experiences he could not touch and that was God's mercy. I am committed to my relationship and understanding of scripture above anyone else's evaluation of my situation, which is why I am still here.

If peace ever comes about doing otherwise, I will know. I wait patiently for the God who has purpose in every situation his children face.

[JustKeepTrying]

This post struck a chord that I had to start this post several times.  Triggering.

I couldn't even take a walk in the neighborhood without a check in when I left and returned.  Once I stopped and got into a lengthy talk with a neighbor - only fifteen minutes - and my OCPDxh sent my DD looking for me. Out of concern of course.

I stopped exercising because he would barge in and comment.  I felt so small and helpless and utterly unable to move in my own home - I used to describe it as wrapped in cotton wool.  I thought while in the fog it was out of concern and kindness because of my cancer.

I now realize it was out of control and manipulation.

Towards the end I would pretend to meditate - to help with the stress of course - and that would give a few minutes of peace in my mind.  When he would barge in - I would say coolly - I'm meditating, please give me space. 

[Mary]

My unpdh prides himself on us being in the same bed. It's like a rule he has. It is not about intimacy, it is control. What things appear to be is much more important to him, he lives in his own Norman Rockwell fantasy world.

Even if he is hating on me, his expectation will be the same. I get surveilled until I turn in. To sleep in another room is asking for a war I am not strong enough to fight. The cruelty would be worse than just acquiescing. I don't want to create a crisis, they come enough on their own. Unless I am ready to end the relationship entirely, that move would be hell for me.

Speaking of sleep... he seems to stir up conflict over nothing often just before bedtime, hence, I am not able to fall asleep easily while he, without conscience drifts off like a baby.

That is so hard T/H. You need your rest!
I'll share my sleep boundary, which was hard to enact at first but now is normal. uPDh would play the audio bible in the middle of the night, beginning of the night, and/or in the morning. He can fall asleep to it. I cannot. He also looks at facebook right before bed for a half hour or so which allows me to drift off, but then often I get jerked awake when he laughs about something, and then I can't get back to sleep. So I started going to bed only after he was asleep. If he turned something on in the middle of the night, I would get up and go to the guest bedroom.

Now, I routinely fall asleep in the guest bedroom, and when I get up to use the restroom, I transition to our bedroom for the rest of the night. He has stopped turning things on in the middle of the night, but it took a good many times of me abruptly getting up without a word and leaving the bedroom. He would tell the kids things like, "Mommy doesn't want to sleep with Daddy anymore," and would say how much he NEEDED to listen to the Bible in the middle of the night. I'm soooo glad we're past this issue. 

I sure hope something resolves for you in this area T/H.
"...be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might." Eph 6:10
Big hug!
Mary

[tragedy or hope]

Mary,
I will give that some thought. I love being awake after he falls asleep. I finally feel alone a bit. Love his naps, I take full advantage of them so I try not to fall asleep during his nap time...

Thank you for the compassion, which I sense through your comments. Comforting.