Not allowed in the same room

[Janeite V]

For well over a year, my covert narcissist family member has sighed and left a room if I even so much as walk through it. Often he closes the doors around me to make an extra point. We haven't spoken in that entire time, even when I say "hello."

Now he has told other family members that he is going to have a nervous breakdown because of me sitting in the lounge reading my book in the morning. He says he needs to be on his own and that I am "harassing" him by coming in there when he is there ("forcing" him to leave). He says that he cannot study for the entire rest of the day because it puts him on the wrong foot from the very beginning of the day, and that he might fail his exams if I don't stop.

So two other family members have asked me to stay out of that room until he leave for the morning, which can take 3-4 hours. I am not sure if they are including the kitchen and toilet with that request, because he is complaining about those, too. One of those family members is a non-PD and very kind, and recognises that it's an unreasonable request and that it would be giving in to manipulation and also encouraging further demands.

I'm going to do it for the sake of my non-PD family member, but I just hate that I have to stay locked in my room. I'm disabled and it's rare that I am even able to leave my bed/room at all. Now I can't even have my enjoyment during my healthy moments.

[SonofThunder]

Hello Janeite V,

I'm sorry you are experiencing this situation in your home and with a family member. I'm also sorry you have a disability that affects your life and only allowing moments of time when you feel healthy.   

You wrote:  " So two other family members have asked me to stay out of that room until he leave for the morning, which can take 3-4 hours. I am not sure if they are including the kitchen and toilet with that request, because he is complaining about those, too. One of those family members is a non-PD and very kind, and recognises that it's an unreasonable request and that it would be giving in to manipulation and also encouraging further demands. I'm going to do it for the sake of my non-PD family member, but I just hate that I have to stay locked in my room."

I believe that the other family members are also being manipulated by the PD, and are 'caretaking' the PD person.  It is unreasonable to be asked to leave a common-area room in a home, but rather, if privacy is desired, the person desiring the privacy should depart the common area.  PD's bleed their needs/drama all over anyone in the home, causing multiple people in the home to caretake the PD to try and keep living areas free from PD behaviors.  Therefore, it's a control-move of PD's to create drama, and cause others to act/react. 

I'm not certain of your age and/or responsibility for ownership of the home you describe, but if you are an adult with adult rights, and have the right to live in this home (you are owner, part-owner, invited by owner) then the common area is your right to reside.  If the PD person is the rightful owner of the home (and not you), I would recommend you find another home to live, if possible with your disability. 

Does the PD have his/her own room?   If so, the PD may leave the common area (in whatever drama way they choose to depart) and reside in their own room.  I want to encourage you to stand your rightful ground and use common areas as you have full right to do.  I also encourage you to use the Out of the FOG toolbox of MC, No-JADE, 50% rule and 51% rule, in guiding your decisions, actions and reactions with ALL family members, not just the PD.  When other family members are caretaking a PD, their actions and reactions can also become controlling, because of their need to caretake and avoid drama. 

SoT

[Thru the Rain]

This is just my opinion, but it would be OK for you to say "no" to this absurd request.

[Janeite V]

This is just my opinion, but it would be OK for you to say "no" to this absurd request.

Thanks! I agree that it's absurd and that someone would have the right to refuse it. For a while I did refuse, but they asked me again and I felt cornered into it. It feels really unpleasant to be doing this, especially since I was so good about grey rocking the sulking for a year or more. Perhaps the PD realised that wasn't working and stepped it up a bit.

Hello Janeite V,

I'm sorry you are experiencing this situation in your home and with a family member. I'm also sorry you have a disability that affects your life and only allowing moments of time when you feel healthy.   

You wrote:  " So two other family members have asked me to stay out of that room until he leave for the morning, which can take 3-4 hours. I am not sure if they are including the kitchen and toilet with that request, because he is complaining about those, too. One of those family members is a non-PD and very kind, and recognises that it's an unreasonable request and that it would be giving in to manipulation and also encouraging further demands. I'm going to do it for the sake of my non-PD family member, but I just hate that I have to stay locked in my room."

I believe that the other family members are also being manipulated by the PD, and are 'caretaking' the PD person.  It is unreasonable to be asked to leave a common-area room in a home, but rather, if privacy is desired, the person desiring the privacy should depart the common area.  PD's bleed their needs/drama all over anyone in the home, causing multiple people in the home to caretake the PD to try and keep living areas free from PD behaviors.  Therefore, it's a control-move of PD's to create drama, and cause others to act/react. 

Thank you, and very well said! It comes across (at least for the non-PD person) that it's an attempt to caretake and keep the toxic behaviours out of living spaces.  The PD has an extra bedroom but insists on the lounge, so actually has more space than everyone else. He's also able to leave the house if he wants privacy, which I cannot do due to my illness.

I'm not certain of your age and/or responsibility for ownership of the home you describe, but if you are an adult with adult rights, and have the right to live in this home (you are owner, part-owner, invited by owner) then the common area is your right to reside.  If the PD person is the rightful owner of the home (and not you), I would recommend you find another home to live, if possible with your disability. 

Does the PD have his/her own room?   If so, the PD may leave the common area (in whatever drama way they choose to depart) and reside in their own room.  I want to encourage you to stand your rightful ground and use common areas as you have full right to do.  I also encourage you to use the Out of the FOG toolbox of MC, No-JADE, 50% rule and 51% rule, in guiding your decisions, actions and reactions with ALL family members, not just the PD.  When other family members are caretaking a PD, their actions and reactions can also become controlling, because of their need to caretake and avoid drama. 

SoT

Fortunately the PD and the flying monkey (his girlfriend who has lived here for a decade) aren't the owners of the place.

That's very true about how attempting to placate the PD will create controlling behaviours in non-PDs. It was really so jarring to experience that from the non-PD who is otherwise very kind. I think she sees herself as trying to create a fine balance between everyone's needs. She often worries about the PD committing suicide and the straw on the camel's back in causing that.

I will definitely follow your recommendation, especially for medium chill and non-JADE with the others. I was thinking about trying to explain my position but it won't do anything except stir up more drama and upset the non-PD. 

Thank you again! It's such a relief to hear voices of reason. I had thought that I had absorbed many of the lessons of this website but this situation had me feeling like a complete newbie again. I suppose that happens when the PD realises they aren't getting anywhere and changes tactics!

[SonofThunder]

Janeite V, you are correct that PD's intensify and/or alter their PD behaviors when they encounter nons correctly (and stealthily) utilizing MC and no-JADE self protections. 

As a similar example, my PDfather and nonPDmother live in a rural location and have a TV antenna on the roof of a 2 story home for reception.  The antenna wire was run in the wall when the home was constructed, but is only supplied to one room, where the TV is located.   My nonPD mother enjoys watching educational and story shows on public television.   My PDfather purposefully sits in the room to read a book while she attempts to watch TV and states he cannot read with the TV sound on, so my caretaking mother, watches television with the sound off and close caption on.  She has asked him to read in another room/another time, but he refuses.  She cannot watch TV in a different room and every time she sits to watch TV, he reads.   

I wish you the best in your situation and dealing with these PD's in self protection by continuing to utilize the Out of the FOG toolbox for your self protection. 

I also recommend the purchase of over-ear, noise-cancelling headphones such as the Bose 35's, as it adds a layer of silence for you and also another layer the PD person must get through (in the same room) to reach you.  They are worth the extra money!  They truly do act as a protective barrier that makes the PD feel like they are being ignored, (and you in your own private space among others) even though you are wearing solely for self-protection and your own controlled quiet space.  I LOVE mine 😊

SoT

[Janeite V]

Janeite V, you are correct that PD's intensify and/or alter their PD behaviors when they encounter nons correctly (and stealthily) utilizing MC and no-JADE self protections. 

As a similar example, my PDfather and nonPDmother live in a rural location and have a TV antenna on the roof of a 2 story home for reception.  The antenna wire was run in the wall when the home was constructed, but is only supplied to one room, where the TV is located.   My nonPD mother enjoys watching educational and story shows on public television.   My PDfather purposefully sits in the room to read a book while she attempts to watch TV and states he cannot read with the TV sound on, so my caretaking mother, watches television with the sound off and close caption on.  She has asked him to read in another room/another time, but he refuses.  She cannot watch TV in a different room and every time she sits to watch TV, he reads.   

I wish you the best in your situation and dealing with these PD's in self protection by continuing to utilize the Out of the FOG toolbox for your self protection. 

I also recommend the purchase of over-ear, noise-cancelling headphones such as the Bose 35's, as it adds a layer of silence for you and also another layer the PD person must get through (in the same room) to reach you.  They are worth the extra money!  They truly do act as a protective barrier that makes the PD feel like they are being ignored, (and you in your own private space among others) even though you are wearing solely for self-protection and your own controlled quiet space.  I LOVE mine 😊

SoT

That need to add a layer of guilt and disruption to pleasurable and/or constructive activities is so familiar! It's so sad your mother is not left in peace to enjoy her educational shows. If you try to JADE you play into their hands, and if you put up with it you also play into their hands. It's no wonder so many people end up so foggy and frozen dealing with it long term. I know the nons in my household view it as just a personal quirk and a manifestation of depression, but to me it seems so mean-spirited and controlling.

It has been a really long time since my particular PD altered his tactics, and I have to admit that throwing the two others into the fray caught me really off-guard.

And that is a good idea about the headphones!