Breaking point - Part 2

[Jsinjin]

Bro:

I so totally understand where you are coming from on every single front.   It's so hard when they decide it's time to cause mammoth drama and raise major issues.   It's annoying, not fun, and we don't realize it but it's abusive.

Thoughts and prayers.

J

[square]

I'm so sorry. Wishing you strength to get to a better place.

[Bunnyme]

I'm glad you are getting yourself into a better situation.  Do you think the kids will be safe with her alone?  I dont know their ages or their ability to speak for themselves.  I was thinking if they are still very young, it may be difficult to make a case for custody based on her abuse if they are left with her.  I am 100% not trying to make a difficult situation even harder for you.  Just something to discuss with you attorney when planning your exit strategy

[escapingman]

Thanks for all wonderful messages.

Bunnyme: The kids are preteens and yes they can stand up for them selves when needed, but my worry is the emotional damage she is causing to them. The physical assaults she does is mostly harmless physically but emotionally it scares them. I think the most dangerous thing is for them to see how she treats me and therefor think it is OK to treat people (future boyfriends, husbands etc) the same. I need to end this cycle of abuse now, it's not something I want my kids to see. Today she has tried to get me to get back on with her as it's all my fault that she has given me the silent treatment since Friday. Sure I have turned off myself but I don't particularly enjoy speaking to someone that slags me off behind my back and is turning my children against me. If I am strong enough I will contact a solicitor tomorrow, I hope I can do it as this is getting worse and worse and worse. 

[square]

You're going to have better and worse days with her. But a better day will not last.

Consider seeing the solicitor no matter what - not as an ironclad decision as to what you will do, but just to open up your options.

If she is treating you nicer tomorrow, well, good. You might be less frazzled meeting the solicitor.

If she treats you awful tomorrow, well, let it be your fuel to see the solicitor, regardless of how upset/tired/depressed you feel.

Taking the first step is not irrevocable.

[escapingman]

Thanks for your encouraging messages. I didn't have the energy to contact anyone on Monday, she then started the love bombing yesterday so I thought just let this be a rest before doing anything. Didn't take her more than today until she kicked off again, he mum was here for a visit. Her mum is probably the most manipulative evil person I met and my wife tries all she can to please her and to pretend everything is perfect. So kids start playing up a bit as kids always do, wife gets annoyed and starts telling them off. They play up some more, trying to get some kind of interest from the 2 so called adults with no results so play up some more. I was in my office working at this time whilst they all were in the garden, one of the kids come in to complain that mum is embarrassing her in front of grandmother by telling her off for everything. Finally other kid comes in and tell me that they have decided that they are having mums meal in the night and mine tomorrow so I am dismissed, stupid me thought that meant I was actually not needed. So I got my gym kit on and went out and told them see you later I am going to the gym, wife raise the eyebrows (her standard "I am not happy") and starts complaining. I tell her that I was told she was cooking their meal (it was just some f*c*i*g fish cakes to heat in the owen) and she blows it, child who told me this quickly change the story to frame me to get out of problems (I totally get that) and screams more and more about it. Ends up with mum hitting her again, MIL happily watch on and backs my wife. At this point I lose it and tell her I am not accepting her hitting the kids, which she obviously disagree with and in the end storms out together with MIL. She then comes back half an hour later and thinks I would be on her side, then kicks off again screaming the house down calling me an animal and then telling me she is leaving and demands half of her money. I promise her to get her the money as soon as I can but I obviously can't get it there on the spot, she kicks off I am trying to con her and she wont leave until I have the money. She also start going on about going down the bank locking our accouts so I can'Tt get anything out without her agreeing. Then another turn and she walks around the house being the big massive victim, still nasty to the child who in her eyes started it all.

I am so ready to end this, she needs out and she needs to not see the kids again. Not sure what the laws regarding voice recordings are here, need to look it up, but caught her both hitting our kid and then also admitting it.

I also need to give myself a big tap on the shoulder for never reacting to this and the kids really appreciated that, she baited and baited and I did no JADE.

[square]

Well done!!!

And that recording may be valuable.

Btw the thing about the money, she was hoping you'd get on your knees and apologize to win her back. And felt betrayed when you didn't care to.

[JustinaC]

Good sir, your wife sounds very, very disturbed. You need to get help and lots of it. No shame in asking for help. Commit to it, embrace it, your children need you to be an advocate. Sound the trumpets and call in the cavalry. You were right to start looking for a solicitor.

There is a name for turning your children against you by lying about you, in the US it's called Parental Alienation Syndrome and it's illegal. When you look for an attorney make sure you find one that understands what that is. Do an online search for High Conflict Institute Bill Eddy.  I think that site will have a LOT of helpful info regarding divorcing someone as disturbed as your wife.  The High Conflict Institute might have an attorney list, but I'm not sure, and they may only be US-based. It wouldn't hurt to check, though. People with personality disorders have will have some predictable behaviors if you know what to look for...and chinks in their armor. This site will help you with that.

Read books about personality disorders, so you understand them well enough to navigate this divorce with your children. When you have been able to get out and aren't so unhappy (understandably so) you could take on educating your children about personality disorders ***without naming your wife*** (Parental Alienation Syndrome I mentioned before). They have to see it for themselves. It will help them in the future as well, in their own relationships because in your household this crazy behavior was normalized.

I would open a separate checking account in your name only and start putting money in it so you have something to start over. Organize all important documents for you and your children (and pets if the kids have beloved pets!) and store them in a safety deposit box in your name only.  Find another place to live. Get a therapist for you and a separate one for your children. You need to de-enmesh yourself. Stop hoping she'll change, she won't.

I'm divorcing someone that I don't think is as bad, but I had hoped that our divorce would be easy, but it's not. I think it's going to really suck. But I am committed to ending the marriage and luckily, he also wants a divorce badly. I am even more committed that our children come out of it unscathed. I also know that this is going to be a life long ordeal. He was mistakenly thinking he could indulge in his distortion campaigns against me with our children undisturbed after they turn 18, but that will not be the case, sadly, for him.

I wish you all the best. Take care of yourself, and take care of those children!!

[escapingman]

When you really don't think it can get any worse......

She started shouting at me, calling me names, calling me a liar, calling me everything under the sun. Daughter comes down decides to join in on her sides and starts shouting and swearing at me, I am apparently a f*ck*r and the worst dad in the world. uNPDw suddenly starts believing her over me for the incident yesterday and they both stand and scream at me, I am supposed to pack my bag cause I don't belong in this country, I am too fat, I am ugly, I am the worst person in the world etc. Ends up with ScapeGoat getting a total panic attack of all this shouting and I have to take her to A&E as she cant breathe. She gets better for every minute away from the house, doctors at A&E cant find any problems with her so sent home after 2 hours. Home and she is reasonable calm and the shouting from uNPDw and GC starts and SG has another fit. Was also told by GC that I apparently has been beating her up when she was younger and that she will make sure I am basically put in prison if I go against her mum, all obviously being fed to her by her mum.

At least the idea of divorce and leaving her is clear as daylight.   

[Starboard Song]

SG sat down with me in calm and told me how wonderful and calm it is without her mum in the house.....

Here's your sign.

I'm really sorry you face this. I've seen your story on the other boards and my heart goes out to you.

[moglow]

I'm so sorry, EM. This sounds miserable for the whole family. I feel for you, really I do.

Who encourages a child to scream and berate their parent?? A deeply disordered and angry soul, that's who. What happened to teaching children that other people are deserving of respect and it's just plain bad manners to treat anyone that way? I get the child isn't in a position to speak up, given mom's behavior but still. S/he's learning that earns mom's approval and is going to lead to a host of other bullying issues if it's not checked. A child allowed to treat a parent that way will naturally do the same to others - other children and adults, teachers, etc. Maybe once you're not living in the same home you can set up ground rules for "how we treat people in our lives - we can disagree with others without being disagreeable." They'll need to see boundaries in action and consequences for behavior, that we're all responsible for our own behavior regardless of mom's choices.

[pushit]

When you file for divorce, make sure one of the first things you negotiate is putting the kids in therapy.  (If they aren't already)  Your PDw will have a really hard time objecting to that once the courts are watching.  With the GC being brainwashed so badly, it could be very helpful if an outside professional is talking with the kids.  A good therapist could help smoke out these kinds of issues, could help if you need to go for full custody someday, and will give the kids a neutral party to vent their frustrations to.

I can tell you from my situation that even though they don't say it directly to me, the kids' therapists know my exPDw is the problem parent and they do a great job coaching the kids through things.

[square]

Having to take your kid to A&E is a pretty critical situation 

[moglow]

  It's not going to be easy for them, being pulled back and forth. Do whatever you can to be sure they have someone to talk to so it's not all you vs mom.

[hhaw]

Keep recording the PD and gc.....keep documenting the trauma sg child suffers.  Make it count for something.  Don't let the suffering be for nothing.

Even if you can't use the recordings in court you can share with your attorney to help him understand the situation.

It's important to craft the story you share about your situation according to your evidence.

He with the best evidence typically wins. 

Be mindful of how you appear/sound in recordings.  Avoid appearances if baiting and egging on pd behaviors.  Always be calm, consistent dad focused on the children.

The children.

The children.

Always go back to the children.

Keep your evidence safe....maybe at a friend's home or hidden in the trunk?  Safe.

Good luck,

[escapingman]

Thank you for all your amazing messages.

I have taken a huge step and contacted a solicitor  , I am now waiting for them to get back to me.

[square]

 

[hhaw]

Remember to speak about Stbx with compassion so you aren't punished.  Holding the PD with compassion in speech and demeanor shows the court and it's officers you're level and capable of putting the children first...... OR..... that you're capable of NOT sacrificing your kids to the God's of divorce court hate and vengeance. 

Speak facts without judgement.  Speak without expectation for what listeners must DO or FEEL. This allows them to come to their own conclusions, IME.  If you tell them what they must do, feel, think..... it can backfire, IME.  People are funny sometimes. Ego tends to trump what's best for involved children, IME.  Being careful not to step on toes..... your attorney's, the Judge's, involved "forensic T's" who may be TERRIBLE and easily manipulated..... you have to watch yourself all the time, IME.

A good attorney should be able to clue you in about your Judge..... what they typically DO in divorce cases..... how they rule.... if they're fair, stupid or willfully ignorant, etc.  Sometimes you find out who your Judge is then find an attorney that Judge LOVES to plead your case.  Sometimes you go in with an unknown, super competent attorney in that county and present a bang on case with outstanding evidence. 

Whatever you do, fire an incompetent attorney you can't truts, bc trusting  your attorney is very important, IME.

An attorney is a tool...and maybe like a pony.. you hire one, feed it, pet it and ride that pony into divorce court with full comittment...... commit or fire, but get solid in your choice. 

It helps to seek out HIGH CONFLICT attorneys when dealing with PDs.

I found ex prosecutors had more information about dealing with PDs than regular attorneys.... esp the expensive top dogs in their field attorneys. They seem to be ignorant, lazy and more invested in making their lives easier than doing what's best for you.  For instance, they don't like to add domestic violence to a divorce, for whatever reason, IME. They said it was bc it "added time" to the divorce, but I found it just extended things and my PD ran circles around them..... outstrategizd, lied, cheated and stole with complete abandon until my second attorney admitted there was nothing he or the courts could do to stop him or any truly committed criminal in the court system.  It was demoralizing and there was much dissapointment on my end, bc I'd mistakenly believed the civil court system was in some way fair.

The truth is... the court system is set up to punish everyone taking up the court's time.  They desire everyone to setttle and stay the hell out of the courtrooms.  They don't take into account the fact sane logical people with children DO settle out of court.  PDs are pathologically unable, typically, to agree to ANYTHING ever and that's the only reason we enter a coutroom, IME.

It's problmeatic when the Courts punish the struggling parent invested in protecting and shielding the children.  You HAVE to have evidence to show the attorneys and court what you're up against and it's easier to get it before the PD knows you're recording and gathering evidence, IME.

Good luck,

[escapingman]

Solicitor contacted me late on Friday to call them which I am planning to do tomorrow. At the same time she is trying her best to pretend its all OK and keeping her temper, not even a proper hover going on so not to bothered. She just invited me out for a meal later next week, couldn't think of anything worse so had to as kindly as possible say I think about it. Yesterday I was away on a sports event with the kids, we had asked her a couple of times earlier in the week if she wanted to come but she only answered with silence and grumbles. So just when we were about to leave she says she wants to come, not ready at all but she just drops the bomb, all of us just told her she is not invited anymore and then we left. Day was great as she wasn't spoiling it.

Today I have been out with SG as she wanted to speak to me, I am amazed how clued up she is for only being little. She asked me if she can see a therapist, she needs to speak to someone about how mum treats her. She also told me to stop believing in the promises that stbxw is making about being nice and changing as she just cant keep them. This conversation was very good to have, to really realize that I need to do this not only for me but for the kids.

Wish me luck, I think I might need it. 

[Poison Ivy]

I hope you can find a therapist for SG and she can go back to being a kid.