First post-COVID nice waif visit

[WinterStar]

When COVID hit, I was eight months pregnant with my fourth child, preparing to give birth during a global pandemic that was scaring the pants off everybody and kept our kids at home instead of in school. The school provided very few resources, so we were essentially homeschooling. Everything I was dealing with already exceeded the energy that I had.

Cue nice waif BPD mom. She made a push for scheduling regular interaction. I didn't want to, so I ducked out of the group she set up. When she noticed, she had a weep session at my brother who then contacted me several times, urging me to contact my mom. I did a great job at first saying, "I'll handle my own correspondence", but then bro kept pushing and told me that I had really upset mom. I responded with some light JADEing along the lines of, "She's always upset about something, so no surprise there." Bro came back at me with an angry, condescending message that said both that he wasn't telling me what to do and then told me what to do. Very gaslighty.

My stress level skyrocketed. Even though I knew that what I needed to do was focus on my FOC, I couldn't stop thinking about my FOO. I was so incredibly angry. So upset that they would pull the focus to them when I needed it the most. And I had the realization that it just never will be about me and that when times are the most difficult, my FOO will just add to the load. It's been over a year, and I am still furious!

As a family with a newborn, we quarantined hard. We are just now making some plans, and I decided that it was time to do a visit with mom. I picked a fun, outdoor place that I want to visit anyway that is between our homes. I set a day with a start and end time. And if she shows up late, we have an awesome time before she gets there and leave as scheduled. I have some safe topics to discuss. I feel like I'm ready to take on a little challenge and am very happy with the plan. I love that we're not depending on her to arrive. We can have a great time even if she doesn't want to join us. Yay!

Mom says she'd like to go. So far so good. Then, she mentions that her husband isn't vaccinated and has no plans to do so. She says that it's because of a food allergy he has. My husband is allergic to the same food and got the vaccine without issue. So, she's presenting it as though it's not her husband's choice even though, really, it is. And he can make that choice if he wants, but it is going to be difficult for me to hear her waif about her poor husband who cannot get the vaccine when my husband has the exact same food allergy.

So I have two issues. The short term one is that my husband and I are not currently comfortable with making plans with unvaccinated adults (aka people who could get vaccinated but have chosen not to). We probably will have the kids get together with their cousins before the vaccine becomes available to them. We were also planning to let our kids play on the playground with other kids at the outdoor visit with my mom. So, it's hard to say, "We aren't comfortable being around him, but we are okay with assuming other risks at the same event." And my mom will definitely see this as her husband not having a choice, so in her eyes, he's in the same category with the kids who cannot get vaccinated.

The long term issue is that this is going to be a thing. Every time we try to make plans with my mom, her husband will be unvaccinated and she will talk about poor him and his allergies and how hard blah, blah, blah... I don't see myself being comfortable making plans with an unvaccinated adult anytime soon.

So, do we just say that we're not comfortable making plans with an unvaccinated adult? Do we let the kids play on the playground? What do we say if there's a comment about that? Do we figure the visit is outside and ask for masks and social distancing as a compromise? I could do that, and it would probably make this whole transition to visits with my mom smoother. But it also isn't what I'd feel comfortable with...

[Starboard Song]

So, do we just say that we're not comfortable making plans with an unvaccinated adult? Do we let the kids play on the playground? What do we say if there's a comment about that? Do we figure the visit is outside and ask for masks and social distancing as a compromise? I could do that, and it would probably make this whole transition to visits with my mom smoother. But it also isn't what I'd feel comfortable with...

COVID justifies all. "We are staying pretty locked down. We don't visit with unvaccinated adults. Our doctor has advised us that Doubter's allergies, like DH's, to not pose a vaccination risk. We will visit when Doubter has been vaccinated. I appreciate you understanding."

Personally, I'd be comfortable outside + social distancing without masks. But truly, this is a case-by-case, to each his own, situation.

[Cat of the Canals]

Your situation - even the conflict with your brother - sounds SO like my family. Ugh.

I wouldn't agree to anything you're not comfortable with. Your mother doesn't need to know what your plans are with the unvaxxed children in your family. If she finds out and pitches a fit, oh well. MC and move on. "I understand you're upset, but this is what we've decided." You already know JADEing doesn't work so don't bother. Like you said, she's always upset about something! If it wasn't this, it'd be something else. If you're going to take a stand on anything, then it seems to me that protecting your family from a deadly virus would be the time to do it.

[moglow]

  It's still your call to make - if you're comfortable outside and distanced, no need to keep repeating the cinversatuo with her. She can waif all she wants, No still means No and that discussion is at an end.

[Jolie40]

covid isn't over-I check stats almost daily for our state & county
people are still being hospitalized & dying in our county

that's enough stress with new child/four kids; I'd wait longer before starting any visits
your immediate family is the priority

[WinterStar]

Thank you so much, Starboard Song, Cat of the Canals, moglow and Jolie40 for your replies. I appreciate the encouragement to do what I am comfortable with. In reflecting on your comments, I'm thinking about who I want to be and how I want to handle these kinds of things that come up (because we all know they're gonna come up). And I think the answer is "light and breezy." Light and breezy could be "Oh, that's too bad, we aren't making plans with unvaccinated people right now" or "If he doesn't mind wearing a mask and social distancing, he's free to come along." So it doesn't exactly answer my question about what to do, but it gives me a perspective that is different than, "This is going to be World War III!" Less catastrophizing is always good.

I'm trying to get to the bottom of why this is triggering me so much right now. I know it's been hard all my life to have my mom believe and try to pass on such illogical/incorrect information. She always needed me to believe it too, so I'd often pretend to so that she would drop it. I know she's going to spin the whole thing in a victim-y way both for her husband and herself. And the victim-y spin is probably the most deeply upsetting thing she does. I'm so tired of hearing about all of her problems. I literally do not care anymore. I'm an extremely empathetic person, and she has used up all my empathy. I have zero to give to her.

Recently, I had this realization that when I got to adulthood, I should have had a metaphorical well to draw from. But I didn't have that. I had a lot of trouble coping, and there was just so much I didn't know how to do and had to learn. My mom drew everything out of the well, and continued to draw on it even after I had a family of my own. A family that needed me not to have a dried up well inside me. She's taken from what I needed to be the best mother I could be. She took from my kids what they needed from me. Even when I don't talk to her, she still occupies my thoughts and working through all of the trauma is taking loads of my energy.

And I'm really concerned that even though I've fixed a lot, my kids have grown up with a mom who often doesn't have the bandwidth to deal with things. They notice my stress, and I worry they absorb it, and that it's toxic for them. I had my second tell me today that I'm stressed out often and that she doesn't like it at all. I hate that for her. I don't want that to be her experience. I told her that it's my problem to fix, that I'll keep working on it and that she can talk with me about it any time.

Also today, my youngest just screamed for awhile. He wasn't hungry, wet or in need of sleep. I held him and reassured him, but I also felt detached as the comfort I offered made no difference. That used to happen a lot with my oldest. I remember her being little and just holding her while she screamed at me, and we'd end up crying together. My son's screaming took me right back to that incredibly hopeless place when I was a new mom and couldn't get my bearings.

My third today had a meltdown because she struggles so much with change. She's seven and struggling in a lot of ways, many of them due to the fact that she's neurodivergent. We had a pet die recently, and she's terrified of death. I did my best to listen to her and comfort her. I let her know that it's okay to feel scared. She decided to say a prayer and asked God to keep her the same age she is right now and to keep everybody else the same age they are right now forever and then said to me, "I hope that works." It was so beautiful and also so sad.

It's been a really tough day, I guess. And I feel like the walls are starting to close in. Little things that I've been better about letting go of are bothering me again. Silly things like the odd shape of the kids' new backpacks bothering me to the point that I want to run out and return them and buy new ones even though the kids are perfectly happy with them.

And as much as today has been a tough day, I think it's the interaction with my mom that has led me to feel so overwhelmed.

[Oscen]

"If he doesn't mind wearing a mask and social distancing, he's free to come along."

I wouldn't be willing to agree to this - could easily see him saying "yes", then NOT social distancing or taking off his mask.
That's a recipe for hyper vigilance all day if you ask me.

[Oscen]

It sounds like you doubt your conviction, WinterStar.
There's something that you want to control - proximity of your family to unvaccinated adults.
You FOO don't want to let you control that. They're using FOG and Drama to try to control you.
Be honest with yourself - it is about control for you - but it's something that you have the right to control. The responsibility, even.

If you believe in your thought processes and the logical necessity of your actions, then your conscience can be good with it.

Do you want your family to be around unvaccinated adults (who you believe could get the vaccine) - yes or no?
Do you think the distinction between unvaccinated children and unvaccinated adults is reasonable - yes or no?
Do you think people should take responsibility for their own health, the impact their choices may have on others' health, and face the consequences of their own choices - yes or no?

However, if you still have guilt from their FOG/Drama, ask yourself:

Do you need other people to acknowledge the "rightness" of your decisions before you feel you have permission to make them?

The way out of the Drama Triangle is through the Persecutor role - sometimes we've just got to be comfortable with looking like the bad guy.

[WinterStar]

I wouldn't be willing to agree to this - could easily see him saying "yes", then NOT social distancing or taking off his mask.
That's a recipe for hyper vigilance all day if you ask me.

I totally get why you'd be concerned about that. A lot of PDs would do that. My Ndad is that kind of guy. He'll say what he needs to in order to get what he wants and then he'll just do whatever he wants to do.

My mom is extremely different. She's 100% waif. No snide comments or angry outbursts. Her husband clearly has some mental health issues, but I couldn't possibly tell you what they are because I don't really know the guy; he barely talks. What my mom tells me about him often lines up with some agenda of hers. That combined with the fact that she often tries to get what she wants by saying somebody else wants it, and I can't put any stock into what she says about him.

Example: my mom wants her husband to be called grandpa by my kids. He's been in the picture their whole lives, but he came in after I was an adult and married, so I don't call him my stepdad. My mom has said her husband desperately wants to be called grandpa, but I've never seen any evidence of that. It could be true. It could also be my mom projecting her own wants on her husband. That said, they've never forced the issue. I don't call him grandpa when I speak about him to the kids, but I also don't prevent them from using the term.

I really struggle describing my mom. She definitely has BPD, but she isn't malicious. She's unaware of her own manipulative behavior. It would cause her so much pain to know that she has caused me pain that she cannot handle it. Her meltdowns make it hard to say "no" to her and tell her the truth, which makes it easier for her to live in fantasy. I've hidden most of my struggles from her, which makes it look like everything turned out alright in the end, so it must not have been so bad. Besides, she had it way worse and continues to retell stories of woe from before I was born. And she won't stop. She has convinced herself that her emotional dumping is helping me by teaching me.

And she cannot take responsibility for anything. It's always somebody else's fault. My dad does this too, and it's angry and scary. But my mom does this and it's weepy and sad. She can't help it because her parents damaged her and her mean husband bullied her, etc. I struggle with recognizing I've done the best I can given the circumstances because my mom tells herself that and leaves so much damage in her wake.