uNPDf wants to come over to pray with our family

[SonofThunder]

SoT, I don't think enforcing our boundaries can happen only on our own property.

Square, I agree with you 100% and sorry if you thought I was implying that. What I was suggesting is when confronting a person, if you are on their property, they hold the final card to play to force you to lose, which is "get off my property", which is fully enforceable by law. 

I have faced that with my father, therefore any confrontations I chose to have with him were on neutral property or my own, where I can walk away or play that last card if needed and I am not the loser/he is not the victor in either of those.  Confronting a PD on their own property is a set up for a mental victory for them, if they play that card any time in the process. 

So therefore I don't set myself up for a loss/PD up for a victory by that manner in my dealings with my PD's.  Boundaries may occur anywhere for our own protection, but a victory for a PD encourages more victory type confrontations for the PD as they get a rush from the targets defeat.

SoT

[SonofThunder]

UPDATE:....I'm going to vent here if that's ok:  I get a call from him today asking me what I'm doing.  I was on the way to a store and running errands.  He changed his voice to an obvious "woe is me" tone and said that he's very lonely today ("I'm feeling very lonely today.") and he wondered if I could come over because: "I really want to talk to you, son."  He was supposed to go visit one of my other siblings this weekend so I asked him why he wasn't doing that.  He said he's deferring that visit to next week (it's out of town), his brother (one of my uncles) is out of town so he can't spend time with him and his friend is also out of town.

I'm not feeling a bit guilty about not going over to see him today, I'm feeling mad because:

> I'm not his "on call" support system that should drop what I'm doing on a very busy day with previous plans to attend to him.
>I can GUARANTEE that one of the things he'd want to talk to me about is: "Did you get a chance to talk to your wife last night about me coming over to pray with your family?" and then it'd be a circular argument and I'd be pulled so much in a JADE situation.
>Very obvious guilt-bomb.
>We've suggested, as have other people his own age (his peers) that he join a grief support group when my mom died.  He refused: "I don't want to sit around hearing other people go on about their problems" (direct quote).  It's been 3.5 years now.  The "woe is me" has been a constant. 
>Tying in with the point above, he's able bodied.  He's not in a hospital bed in a nursing home.  He's not in a wheelchair.  He's not confined to a single room.  He drives, he walks, he can be active.  He's fully capable of focusing on self-care and taking initiative to improve his own social life, etc rather than trying to rely on around four people (family and one friend).  Grief support groups work wonders for other people, but he just knows they wouldn't work for him.
> I can't help but feel on the defensive and feel that his woe is me tone and "I'm lonely" is just a ploy to get me to go over there, be a captive and have him work me over more on why I didn't accept his self-invitation to come over and be our prayer leader.
>I can't help but feel based on a lifetime of similar things that this is very manipulative.
>Someone on the "outside" who hasn't lived with someone like this would look at it and probably say I'm a cold-hearted person whose not helping a lonely elderly person in need.

I agree with your observations and analysis.  My opinions on your original post are unchanged.

SoT

[The Inner Light]

Here's a second update.  I'm happy to report that things went better than expected.

My dad asked me to go help him with something outdoors at his place.  While we were doing the task he asked me if I had a chance to talk to my wife about him coming over to pray with our family on our deck (I knew he'd ask) because I'd told him that she and I had to talk about it.

I told him matter of factly and directly without being stern or angry that we don't want to do that.  He asked why.  I said that we're going to figure out what's right for our family (regarding our spirituality).  He said that whatever I choose, it's important for me to retain my faith in God, not only for myself, but also for the sake of teaching our children the same.  Then I changed the subject and luckily he didn't press the issue.  Good!

A few minutes later he said if we were deciding to leave our church, we should join some other church to maintain the importance of community.  I think I just answered with an:  "Mmm."  He said as long as we joined some other church, he'd be ok with that.  I don't know if he realized that's how he phrased it or if he was trying to bait me or not, but I didn't say anything, even though I was thinking:  ("Oh, it'd be ok with you if we chose to do X?  Not your decision to make and we don't need your approval.") but again, I didn't say anything other than maybe a "Ah." or something. 

When I was leaving he did ask me to set aside more time to spend with him because he's "lonely".  I will be suggesting to him once again that he join a support group and I'll be gently reminding him that my wife and kids take precedence.

Thanks for all your help, everyone. 

[bloomie]

Wow!!! The Inner Light! BRAVO!!! Huge step forward with your dad and your boundaries.

So happy to hear this excellent update!

[The Inner Light]

Wow!!! The Inner Light! BRAVO!!! Huge step forward with your dad and your boundaries.

So happy to hear this excellent update!

Thank you, Bloomie.  And thanks to everyone else for their support. 

[moglow]

Nicely done!

[Call Me Cordelia]

 

[SonofThunder]

Wow!!! The Inner Light! BRAVO!!! Huge step forward with your dad and your boundaries.

So happy to hear this excellent update!

Way to go Inner Light, im proud of you!   It will get easier every time you use the toolbox properly, just as you did. I tip my hat to you. 

SoT