Disrespect from Husband and Step Daughter?

[PlainJane]

 Hi - First post...

I'm newly remarried in a blended family situation. My husband has 2 adult daughters in their late 20's.

Things were great until his oldest daughter moved in with us. She is usually in some form of crisis. Her dad has always been there to get her out of trouble. She became more demanding for money for bills. Husband would just give her his credit card and she would wrack up expenses. She now owes us around $12,000 which she believes she is entitled to this money. I was not consulted on giving her money, he just tells me after he's done it. At one stage he discussed her money situation with his ex-wife, and she wanted us to give more money to his daughters. So he did, but without speaking with me.

When we moved in all together, my presence in the same room was her upsetting her and I had to leave when she was there. This is in my own home. She even did this in front of my husband, storming out of a room in tears because I happened to walk in at the same time. He asked me "what did you do to her?". There were regular tantrums about bizarre things and slights I was supposed to have done to her. None of which are true.

All this time I kept asking my husband to work with me to talk with her and find out what was going on. He didn't want to be involved - saying it was strictly a conflict between the two of us and he was only the meat in the sandwich. He asked me to make sure that she had her own space inside our home and I had to make sure I didn't upset her - as I was causing her depression. I had enough and asked her to move out.

My husband just doesn't want to listen to how I feel, but conceded he thinks she has had bipolar. We have had so many arguments about how to managed this issue. He says that none of this is disrespect, let alone abuse. I am just overdramatizing his daughter's behaviors. She is still causing us issues and demands her dad come to her whenever she needs him. She has managed to turn half of his family against me too, which feels so hurtful.

I think she is likely to be uBPD and they are enmeshed. They are co-dependent and enabling her behaviors by turning a blind eye. These are my thoughts only - trying to make sense of the situation.

I grew up in a violent household where I believe my mother had uBipolar and was regularly physically, emotionally and mentally abused. I swore I would never be in another situation like this... and here I am!

So - where to next? We have started marriage counselling, with the counsellor telling me I have no childhood trauma triggers, I have unhelpful thinking and I need to get some CBT. He said I need to "put on my big girl pants and build a bridge". That I'm an aggressive person and my poor husband just wants a life without conflict.

Am I crazy to want to deal with the disrespect? Should I just forget the disrespect and move on? How? I honestly don't want to be married to him anymore. I want to heal from these feelings of disrespect which have resurfaced, by myself.

[hhaw]

PJ:

My situation was different.  My fiance was dying while his youngest DD created chaos between him and me.

At one point I asked him why he wanted to be with someone who would DO the things his DD claimed.

I straight out told him he should protect himself and his DD if he believed her. 

I began seeing his T with him.  The T believed every word I said, and I never defended myself or pretended to work on my part if the problem.  I would have released the relationship with love first.  There was so little time left.  I wanted him to have more peace.....be less battered by his youngest.

I think I had pretty good boundaries AND understood his DD was being manipulated by her mother....was scared and grieving and attempting to stand in her abusive pd mother's shoes.

That was well above my pay grade. 

My point is.....my fiance answered my question....he wouldnt want to stay with someone engaging in the kind of heinous fackery I was accused of.  That ended the discussion.  His DD lost traction and found other ways to continue creating chaos through my lovely B' s death and funeral service.

I always had compassion for the daughter, raised in turmoil, but there were limits to the chaos I could endure, for my own mental health.....and/OR my aversion to conflict made the boundary easy to draw and defend.  I was limiting chaos, as priority.

You deserve your husband's trust and support.  The therapist sounds unhelpful at best.  Very destructive, IME.  A better T sounds imperative, Ime. 

If you can't minimize the chaos, what are your options? 

[PlainJane]

Oh hhaw. I am so sorry for your loss. I read your words and felt so sad at what you must have gone through.

I've tried to put boundaries in place and work on a) the money and b) the disrespect. But my husband doesn't like my boundaries ( no more money until SD pays back the money she owes and works on some respectful behaviors) and uses loopholes to push through them or ignorance (" Oh - you meant that? I didn't know that's what you meant")

My therapists says I am controlling and emotionally manipulative because I'm trying to stamp my authority across him and his daughter. Maybe I said my boundaries wrong.... I feel so bad if I have because I want to stop emotional manipulation and not be the cause of it. I feel my husband and I  just have separate values.

I have never not wanted him to be a dad to his daughter... he feels like I am asking him to choose between her and me... I have only ever asked him to choose behaviors, not people.  All I want him to do is show some compassionate but slightly tough love. That we are no longer going to pay for your debt but we will help you to get some financial help. I would like him to step up and say "please stop being disrespectful to my wife, it is not ok to talk to her like that." I feel concerned at how 'intimate' he is with her in a non-sexual way and it's like there's 3 people in our marriage.

I am trying to show compassion... some days I do better than others. I was the one who offered up the suggestion we pay for her to receive financial counselling and debt management. I also asked that we all get together and talk things through (that failed spectacularly). Some days I am so angry and have now internalized my rage.

So, options... I would love to minimize the chaos. Not sure how but would be up for giving that a go. I would like us to move interstate and away from her to gain both a mental and physical distance from her (which my husband originally supported but now doesn't). So, another option is to separate and divorce... maybe that is inevitable? 

I am going to my own counsellor today (first session) to work on options.  I had a fabulous clinical psych who helped me understand BPD and the other issues I have with the situation, which has been so good to understand what's going on.

But where to next?

[hhaw]

It's necessary to always refer to the chaotic people with unfailing compassion, IME.

This leaves space for the listener to judge the situation instead of getting defensive, IME.

With your past trauma it's likely you're experiencing reactivity......who wouldn't? 

I used to write write write out my feelings....just scream it in the page, read it then barf up more feelings, read, write till I honed my truth down to an unfailing absolute. 

This made it possible to discuss the topic from a position of calm.....Id internalized my feelings and all relevent facts involved.  I was rock steady and needed to be.

I'd say you do too.

Remember to breathe.....tactical Breathe,g, used by law enforcement in firefights, is 4 seconds in breath, hold 4 seconds, exhale 4 seconds.

This helps engage your sympathetic nervous system, responsible for turning off fight or flight survival brain so you have access to frontal lobe brain/ logic/creative problem solving skills.

One more thing....
DH is invited to ask himself if he's helping his DD navigate and solve her problems OR remain mired in them.

[PlainJane]

I agree with you in principle with the compassion - it is hard in reality when she is still attacking you, turning family members against me, raging about money and how she needs us to bail her out. I'm not sure how, in the face of ongoing disrespect, I can rise above it all. Something for me to work on. I agree - it is all reactive. Not an ideal situation. Defensiveness is present, from all sides.

Breathing techniques help... thanks for that reminder. Somedays I just forget to use these.

Interesting - I have asked him if what has worked in the past is helping her with her illness... is it enabling or empowering her? How can we support her to make her own decisions and be accountable for her own actions.... He changes the subject and won't talk about it.

[notrightinthehead]

Plainjane, Welcome! I urge you to read up on boundaries on this site and whatever you can find - there are some good articles out there.  Please also study the toolbox here and start applying the strategies that are useful to you.

I agree with Hhaw, your therapist does not seem helpful to you. Normally therapists don't judge people so harshly to their face.  That would defeat their purpose.

Your story sounds to me as if you are trying to change your h's behaviour as well as your SD's.  It is very unlikely that you will succeed with that attempt. You can only change your response to their behaviour. For example as you disapprove how your h financially supports his daughter,  you could make sure that none of your money is spent this way. That way you show respect for his right to spend his money any way he wants while at the same time protecting your interests.
You already imposed a healthy boundary when you told your SD to move out. You have every right to feel safe and comfortable in your home.  Another healthy boundary could be that you decide how much of your H/D chaos you want to know about.  You could keep telling yourself "not my problem - he can deal with it, he is a grown man" and just let him get on with it while you remain in blissful ignorance about her troubles.
Sending you strength!

[PlainJane]

Hi NRITH

Yes - I see where you are coming from. I did try and set a boundary of no more joint bank accounts - I will split them out and your money is yours to spend, and mine is mine. A difficult things, as we run a family business, however not impossible. He disagreed and therefore the compromise was that if you want to keep joint bank accounts, I will no longer accept any payments to SD until she pays back the money she has taken from us. I disapprove of how he spends his money on her, because, it's my money too... and I don't get a chance to discuss it with him. He just gives the money away without discussing it with me first. We have a boundary that says we discuss large purchases first with each other... he disregards it. I have asked him that he stops giving her the credit card and access number, as it puts US in debt and she has no intention of paying back the money. I guess I need better boundaries and how to hold fast.

I agree with you - I have asked that I am kept out of her issues - but ultimately they impact me. She has turned family against me, which impact my ability to have a relationship with them. She expects to be bailed out of debt, which impacts me financially. She expects her dad to return from vacation early because she needs help on something in her home, which impacts me because we have already paid for travel and accommodation... etc.

Thanks for your sage words and I'll check out the toolbox too.

[notrightinthehead]

Plainjane, what you are talking about are agreements that he does not adhere to. Boundaries are something that you set for yourself, something like if he yells at me again, I just grab my bag and go to my friends house. It has nothing to do with the behaviour of the other, it has only to do with your response to it.
What you are doing is trying to change the behaviour of the OTHER,  which is almost impossible. Maybe if you stand next to him 24/7 holding a gun to his head. He does what he does, you have no control over him.  You have only control over what you do as a response to his behaviour.  So your boundary could be,  if you give her money again, I will set up my own account that you have no access to. If he disagrees, you do it anyway. Just like you disagree with his giving her money and him doing it anyway. So, you see, boundaries have nothing to do with the other - these are lines in the sand for yourself. It will take a bit of thinking from your side,  a few rules for yourself. When A happens I will do B. You don't even have to tell your h about it. This is an agreement for yourself. You show yourself some respect. When your boundaries are crossed there are consequences. And they only help you if you stick to them. No matter how terrified you are.

[Penny Lane]

Notright has some very wise words here and I want to piggyback on the money thing (but I think the principle can be extrapolated to other aspects of your relationship too).

You cannot control whether your husband gives his daughter money. You can control whether he has access to YOUR money in order to give it to her. So to simplify a complicated situation, your current options are 1. you keep your money in a joint account and he almost certainly will keep giving money to his daughter out of it or 2. you keep your money in a separate account and no more surprises on your own accounts. Either way, it seems, he's going to give his daughter money. The difference is whether or not you participate in it (unwillingly).

Neither of these "solutions" actually solves the problem, really. Because even if you completely separate your money, he is still spending money on enabling his daughter's bad behavior - money that could be spent on things your household needs. So even if you do go the boundaries route - you protect yourself financially and emotionally from his decisions about his daughter - you eventually will be faced with a decision. Can you survive in a marriage where your lives are this segmented from each other and where you have such a fundamental disagreement about really basic values?

You brought up the possibility of divorce and whether it's inevitable. If that's what you want to do, that is a totally reasonable (albeit hard) choice. If that's what you want to do, I think you know how to proceed. However, if you want to keep working on it, my suggestion would be to take some steps to protect yourself from the stepdaughter's chaos, and see if the resulting situation is something you can live with. If you decide to work on it, I think both of you could really benefit from couples counseling to explore these issues. An outside person might help you reach some compromises or identify some shared principles that can help guide you - or at the very least, might help you clarify whether there is a situation that you can both live with.

[PlainJane]

Thanks so much on helping me understand boundaries.

The couples therapist said my boundary of "if you do X, then I am going to do Y" is an ultimatum and is not healthy. So now that confuses me even more...

I have spoken to DH and have asked we get a new couple therapists who is more gentle in their approach.

Where I am also struggling is (and the money aspect is just one part) is his enabling and co-dependency with her. Just my observations, but I do not want to be a part of a family dynamic which I feel is unhealthy and keeps her from being empowered to grow and make her own decisions. It is the constant rescuing her out of situations, making excuses for her behaviors (or denying they are hurtful towards me), not allowing some responsibility and accountability for her actions. She has made some pretty serious accusations towards me and turning family away from me with these complete falsehoods. My DH tells me to just ignore it all. But I'm hurt. Very hurt. he doesn't want to get involve in our 'cat fight'.

What do you do with this? I have no idea what to do, only I know my own mental health is suffering through feeling like I'm making all this up, it's not that bad and I'm the crazy one (because I'm overreacting).  I know I have a lot of work to do and don't want to be emotionally manipulating (which is what our couples therapist says I was). I just want it all to stop.

We don't have any of these issues with my son or the other step daughter.

[notrightinthehead]

.....The couples therapist said my boundary of "if you do X, then I am going to do Y" is an ultimatum and is not healthy. So now that confuses me even more...

I have never come across a therapist who was so openly judgemental. This is not even true that it is an ultimatum. It is solely the statement of consequences. Like when you order something, you will have to pay for it. Or when you spill milk you will have to wipe it up. Or I will wait for 15 Minutes, if you have not arrived by then, I will leave.  These are mere statements that show that actions have consequences and what the consequences are.  I am truly amazed that a therapist would say such a thing. Especially marriage counsellors usually take great care not to take sides and to work on compromises rather than confrontation.

[PlainJane]

Oh gosh yes... I was also told I am controlling, have unhelpful thinking, am depressed, am aggressive and an angry person.

Sure. Maybe I am. Maybe I've had 14 months of chaos and disrespect from an adult child with potentially uBDP and I am at the end of my tether. I was and still am the target of her hatred and attacks. She has openly declared "she wants her father back". I just want calm, healthy boundaries, positive future focused conversations and respect for all in our family. I know I get things wrong... That's why I'm in counselling, to try and get on the right path.

I have a husband who just ignores it all and tells me it's my issue. I was told my the therapist to look at my poor husband... and to just get over things. I'm not sure how that was supposed to help.... I am in couples therapy to 'get over things". If it were only as easy as being told it and, poof, those thoughts disappear.

I thought couples counselling would help us reframe our thoughts (when negative) and help us work on joint resolution - strengthening us as a couple for when anyone challenges our partner and they feel disrespected/unsafe/hurt/angry... whatever.

[livinginmyhead]

He ignores it all and tells you it's your issue?

They both sound extremely enmeshed and abusive.

First rule of therapy is never go with an abuser.

[PlainJane]

Hello everyone

Just wanted to give an update and how much I have appreciated the advice.

I went to a counsellor. She was amazing. She helped me understand the enmeshed dynamics and the uBPD daughter and I recognised that I could no longer stay in my relationship. My marriage was over!

It was when she said to me that she wanted to focus on keeping me safe that I realised I was being abused (emotionally and financially) by both my husband and his family members. I also stopped marriage counselling as I was helped to see that the counsellor had a bias towards my husband and it wasn't helping (he also openly disrespected my previous clinical psych too, which I thought was unprofessional to talk like that about another health professional). She also warned that nothing would change, because I saw that my husband was just appeasing me and he had no real intention of working with me to fix anything. He would just say what I wanted to hear and ignore what he promised or we agreed upon and would not follow through on actions. I learnt about stonewalling, gaslighting, manipulation etc...

So it became less about helping his uBPD daughter and more about how to extract myself from this situation.

She has her father back to herself and doesn't have to share him with me, so apparently she is super pleased that she has him all to herself and that she "won" in this situation.

Then I found out the web of lies and deceit he'd been hiding from me for four years when we were together - he's siphoned tens of thousands of dollars to give to his uBPD daughter. I think it was around $30,000, on top of the $12,000 I knew about. And the lies came out... he's got a pretty severe porn addiction too.  And other lies around the business, his work, his income....

Now we are prepared to go to court , but he's using tactics to delay financial settlement and to harm me financially. He's arguing that he put in more money than he did - but I'm prepared to pay for a forensic accountant to prove that not only he put much less in, that he was taking money out and giving it away. He's also lied about how much he put it originally, but cannot produce any evidence to support his claims.

So it looks like I understand where the daughter's behaviours stem from... she has learned from a master at it!!!

Good news...My children (from my previous relationship) and I are safe and we moved interstate back to our family support networks. I have a great job, renting a nice house and happy to be away from the abuse. The children are having counselling as the daughter and the husband had serious impacts on them (and verbal and emotional abuse as well) that I was unaware of, but is only coming out now. They are going to be ok. I will get my money out of the home and business eventually - I hope the court will see his behaviour and settle things fairly.

Thank you all...

[Worthy of Care]

PlainJane,

I am new to Out of the FOG. I just read your entire post. The situation you were in sounded so distressing. I'm glad to hear that you and your children are in a safe situation and are getting good support.

[hhaw]

THAT was an amazing update, PJ.

Truly.

So glad you and your kids are out and in T.  You're a very strong person.

Well done.

[Penny Lane]

I'm sorry that you are going through divorce but I'm so, so impressed that you got out! Happier times are ahead.

[PlainJane]

Thank you worthy of care, hhaw, and Penny lane. Your words are kind and helpful and I appreciate the time you took to send me good wishes.

It will be ok... I'm sure it will.

The divorce is ok... it's him trying to keep us financially poor whilst he has the house and all the assets is distressing. But I need to have faith in the legal system... I'm getting support but still feel a bit broken that this has all happened.

[1footouttadefog]

So glad you are out and safe.  I am glad that your children are supported in processing what they went through.

I am sure once you found they were abused it reaffirmed your decision. 

I hope you get treated fairly in court.