Ugh, just had a yucky conversation with my mother

[TimetoHeal]

I should have known it was coming because I missed one weekend of calling her because I have been super busy and also trying to heal from an abusive relationship with a man I recently ended.  She was all boo-hoo, poor me, woe is me.  I know she has legitimate depression, but she refuses to do anything anyone including her doctor recommends would help.  No body loves me.  Nobody comes to see me(not true, I just visited her a few weeks ago.  One of her last remaining friends tried to visit her this week and she rejected her once again).  My grandchildren don't text me (also not true, my dd does, but my ds doesn't text anybody, he hates the phone).

I admit I fell into trying to give her advice about her depression again, and she had an excuse for everything why she can't do it.  She also made several really passive-aggressive, mean-spirited comments, like "I have to check Facebook to see if my children are still alive" and "I'm not watching the Olympics this year because it's all political $h*t, and I'm not going to ask you if you're watching them because I don't want to know if you're watching them".  "Now I know it will be that much longer before you call me again".  "I don't blame you for not wanting to talk to me, I don't want to talk to me either".  Ugh!!   

I let the conversation go on much longer than it should have.  I feel like I need a shower.  She's right, it probably will be a lot longer before I call her again.   

[moglow]

Take the shower. Use special skin nurturing and soul soothing scents to make it really good for you. I had a good chiropractor friend years ago who taught me: when you touch or are in contact with those painful "dark cloud" people, as soon as the interaction is over go wash your hands. Use plenty soap and hot water and wash all that bad juju away. I've done it after phone calls with mother and learned after the bad visits/calls, the shower makes a HUGE difference for me, recovery-wise. It's good self care and gets rid of the ugliness - you literally watch that falling off you, going down the drain.

You are welcome.

[Sneezy]

Take the shower.

I have said this before - my mother is responsible for my high water bill 

TimetoHeal - It is amazing how our PD parents can just wallow in such misery.  I call it the Black Hole of Despair and that's where my mom spends a lot of her time.  What they don't understand is that the more miserable they are, the less we want to be around them.  In their minds, if they are miserable, then we should be clamoring to comfort them.  Because that is what "good" children do.  They raised us to cater to their moods, and when we get healthy and stop letting our lives revolve around them, well it just makes them more miserable. 

There is no stopping the misery train.  Your mother, along with mine, will always be sad and miserable and everyone will be mean to them and no one will ever suffer the way they suffer.  Giving advice on how to deal with depression is unwelcome and they won't take it.  That's not what they want.  Dealing with their depression (or in my mother's case, her extreme anxiety) would actually take work on her part.  It would involving taking a sense of responsibility for their own lives.  Which they aren't going to do because nothing, especially their own misery, is their fault.

So take that long hot shower.  Splurge on the expensive shampoo and body wash.  And then keep your boundaries strong and your medium chill set to high. 

[Boat Babe]

Great advice Sneezy.

[Andeza]

TimetoHeal:

I should have known it was coming because I missed one weekend of calling her because I have been super busy and also trying to heal from an abusive relationship with a man I recently ended.  She was all boo-hoo, poor me, woe is me.  I know she has legitimate depression, but she refuses to do anything anyone including her doctor recommends would help.  No body loves me.  Nobody comes to see me

This right here is why I'm NC. I'm not telling anybody to take that route, just prefacing the rest of what I'm saying so you know where I'm coming from. Context is nice.

You have just quoted, verbatim, my own uBPDm. You also described her behavior to a T. Oh yes. Complains about all the things that are wrong, doesn't try to fix them. Erg. Frustrating. Sooo frustrating. Sneezy and moglow have both made excellent points. Go for the shower! Or a nice soak. Epsom salts are great too.

Hold fast to your chosen boundaries! Do not let the pity party change what you do. And yes, every time my uBPDm bellyached about the frequency of my calls.... I waited longer the next time. I needed to. Because I was getting worn down, tired, exhausted of trying to fend off her never-ending problems and issues. Eventually, fending it all off was just too much and I had to cut it off completely.

[TimetoHeal]

Thank you all for the caring and wise replies!

Moglow,
I LOVE the idea of Literal shower or washing your hands!  I am going to implement that right way!!

Sneezy,
Everything you said is so true. They don't actually WANT to get better because of the effort and accountability it would require. That is such an eye opener right there. Because I suffer from depression and anxiety myself, it comes naturally for me to want to help and share what has worked for me. But I also realize what a heck of a lot of work it took and still takes every day!  And my mother is either incapable or unwilling to do that work.

Andeza,
Oh, how I long for going No Contact, and I think it may have to eventually happen, though I've always believed I couldn't do it. I can see me having to go farther in between calls/visits and her escalating and me having to say, "Enough is enough ". I'm just not sure when that will be yet.

Part of the reason I was somewhat avoiding her was I was emotionally hit with her role in encouraging me to date this last guy who was so terrible for me (and every guy I have married/dated for that matter).  When I told her all the concerns I had about him (e.g. red flags), she said, "Well, it's not like you're going to be 25 for your next birthday ". I'm pushing 50, and I felt that.       I know, I know, confiding in her for relationship advice is a huge mistake.  I'm not sure why I did.  And did she once ask how I was doing with my painful breakup?  Nope. All about her. 

[Cat of the Canals]

I let the conversation go on much longer than it should have.  I feel like I need a shower.  She's right, it probably will be a lot longer before I call her again.   

They spread their misery and then wonder why we aren't dying to talk to them... hmmm, such a mystery!

I've started using a timer when talking with my PDmom. I set it for 20-25 minutes, and when it's up, the call is over. It helps to have an excuse lined up, too: "I need to go start dinner" or "I have to take the dog out." are my two go-to excuses. Oddly enough, our conversations have actually improved since I started doing this. It's like she somehow knows she has a limited amount of time, so she doesn't go off on her tangents the way she did when I didn't limit the length of the call. (I also have gone from calling once a week to once a month, so that probably helps, too.)

[TimetoHeal]

Great idea with the timer, Cat!  I just had a funny thought in my head:  Me using a timer - the old fashioned kind that you turn - and my mother being able to hear it in the background ticking and then going off!!   

[Andeza]

Haha! You could, then say it was for dinner and you've got to go. What is it about the relationship right now that makes you question your ability to go NC if I might ask? Are you getting any positives from it?

[Rose1]

Timer with a loud bell. I wonder if it would work.  My updm just talks right over me if i say i need to go. Never been able to make that work as hanging up ends up being the only option

[Cat of the Canals]

Timer with a loud bell. I wonder if it would work.  My updm just talks right over me if i say i need to go. Never been able to make that work as hanging up ends up being the only option

"Oh jeez, my phone battery is about to die! I'm afraid we're going to get cut off, mom..." Wait maybe thirty seconds and then *click.*

[moglow]

I once literally stepped to the door and rang my own doorbell - she heard it and didn't question me further.

[nanotech]

I once literally stepped to the door and rang my own doorbell - she heard it and didn't question me further.

Moglow you are a legend!
And, after contact, I'm physically  washing away the crud too!  How satisfying and uplifting that is going to feel! Xx

[TimetoHeal]

Moglow,
I am cracking up about you ringing your own doorbell!   

Andeza,
I guess I have remained low contact instead of No Contact because of obligation, honestly.  I know, part of the fOg!  I made a (foolish) promise to my Dad before he died that I would take care of her.  I know he wouldn't even hold me to that if he were still here, but...I still feel it.  She is also one of my few remaining blood relatives.  We had a small family to begin with, and now, either through death, distance, or divorce, my family has whittled down to a very few.  There are also some financial entanglements since my Dad passed as well.  I know all of these are no good reason to allow myself to continue to be abused.  I just don't really know how to disentangle myself completely.   

[JollyJazz]

Hi Timetoheal,

Good on you for spotting the way she made it all about her. Did she show YOU any empathy or support for your break up? It's also not okay that she told you that you had to settle for bad behavior from a guy.

A lot of us here have been trained into being 'care takers'. I found the book 'stop caretaking the borderline or narcissist' really life changing. This might help you too. It sounds like you are starting to see these patterns, awesome.

Hope you can get some self care in, you deserve it! Sorry to hear you get do little support from your PDM.

If she really is so unwell she needs to put on her big girl pants and get help from a doctor and/or therapist. It sounds like she's just wanting some sided narcissistic supply from you.

You sound like a good person who deserves better 

[Rose1]

Ringing own door bell.  Love it

[Andeza]

Okay, TimetoHeal, I was hoping you'd be able to put your finger on what was going on with your own situation and outlook. That kind of introspection is so very important for your future wellbeing, healing, and choices. It also speaks highly of your emotional maturity.

As for the current issue, great advice from everybody really. I would add the most important part to make this work is for you to understand that she'll be, well, annoyed, and then not caring that she is because you can't be responsible for her happiness. But I see good choices in your future, I really do.

[JollyJazz]

Hi Timetoheal,
This... is just total emotional abuse...

It makes me mad that your mother could tell you this.

Part of the reason I was somewhat avoiding her was I was emotionally hit with her role in encouraging me to date this last guy who was so terrible for me (and every guy I have married/dated for that matter).  When I told her all the concerns I had about him (e.g. red flags), she said, "Well, it's not like you're going to be 25 for your next birthday ". I'm pushing 50, and I felt that.   

People find kind, caring, loving partners at all different ages, people in their 90s find love. You deserve love and kindness. Good on you for leaving that abuser. And good on you for spotting the dynamic with your mom.

My PD mother (and the rest of my FOO) trained me to cater to her feelings. I'm recovering from a lifetime of being in the 'caretaker' role, being both exploited for my kindness and used as an emotional punching bag. I'm so so sick of the lot of them. I'm getting there and healing. I've got a ways to go though.

Hope you get all the nice hot cleansing showers, baths and every kind of pampering that you want. You deserve it!!!

[TimetoHeal]

Thank you, everybody, for the further replies!  I'm sorry, I wasn't on here this weekend.  I had a rough weekend, at least partially hormonally fueled, LOL, and just needed to journal and cry my way through it.  But I am better today! 

Jollyjazz,
Thank you so much for your kind words.  You are right.  That was straight up emotional abuse.  It really hurt.  My mother is great at getting in jabs like that. They don't really seem "that bad", except that they hurt like hell.  I intend to really minimize my time with her even more from this point.  It sounds like you are doing well and on the road to healing yourself, JollyJazz!  I'm glad to get to know you on here. Our FOO can really do a number on us and set us up for a lifetime of choosing toxic partners, can't they?  Well, we have the power to say NO MORE, whether we're 20, 50, or 90!   

Thank you, Andeza, for your encouragement and helping me realize exactly what is going on here, and that I am NOT responsible for how she feels. 

This forum is so awesome and I'm so glad I finally joined!   

BTW:  I did do something nice for me this weekend:  I got a massage for the first time in 2 years.  It was great!  I am looking for a counselor/therapist to start working with.  I've had a hard time finding a good one in the past.  But I will keep trying. 

[MarlenaEve]

sorry TimetoHeal.

That's why I avoid LC/VLC because NM can be a real victim over the phone. I think PDs love to use the phone time to slip into their victim roles. It gives them a lot of power over us. If you're empathetic like me, you probably feel sorry for her. She knows that and is taking advantage of that.

Have you watched Narcissism Survivor on YouTube?
His videos have the effect of sobering me up whenever I slip into the caretaking role like I want to help mother because she's so vulnerable, poor her.
They/re not really a victim. They PLAY the victim to keep up the facade. That's a totally different story. Someone who's a victim seeks helps because they're in pain. Someone who plays the victim does not want help because they know deep down that they're faking it.

This is what I've learned from my mother's fake cries and fake 'poor me' statements. It's all a theatre play, and she enjoys acting.