The ILs wish to reconcile

[Call Me Cordelia]

I've been NC with my in-laws for a few years now. Since then, one has died, and the rest have retired. We never went NC with my husband's extended family but their family dynamic was such that pretty much all communication went through my husband's parents, and we lost everyone else as collateral damage more or less. Even those we tried to maintain relationship with on the condition they not get involved in the conflict with MIL and FIL, we were ghosted.

So now that they are all retired and they haven't spoken to DH since Christmas, FIL has reached out to DH and wants to reconcile. They want to apologize to me specifically. It was communicated that they recognize we have our own life and they will not criticize our choices. Okay.

I don't feel pressured by DH. At least he is really trying not to pressure me. And he let some weeks go by before even telling me about this. But his goal is definitely some kind of reconciliation. FIL expresses wanting to see his grandchildren. DH's uNgrandpa is getting close to the end of his life and finally admits it, and wants to leave this world at peace with his family. MIL has thus far remained silent and FIL is speaking on her behalf here (and really she's the one who's dished out the worst of the abuse toward me).

I really feel about the whole thing. But oddly it seems that they all think that moving forward is under my control. I only learned about DH's conversation with FIL a little bit ago, so I'm writing my first impression, but my first impression is that if DH wants to work things out with FIL, he can certainly do that on his own. I asked if FIL apologized specifically to DH and his answer was, well kind of. I don't even feel I especially want to receive an apology from them. However, if there is no communication between them and me, they won't be seeing the kids. So I guess I'm the obstacle to what they want, once again.

Blah.

[Hilltop]

That's a really difficult place to be put in and I can't help but feel a little irritated for you because already you are being painted as the one holding everything back or you having the control which is grossly unfair to you.

My initial thoughts are, why doesn't your DH work on a relationship himself without involving others.  If that is something he wants then he should be able to talk to his mother and father and build back up some sort of a relationship.  It just seems a little weird that they want to go from nothing to seeing the grandchildren.  I understand they would reach out to your DH to organise communication with you as that probably seems like the most logical thing to do but interestingly your MIL is quiet and as you say she was the one who did most of the damage.  It seems FIL has done some semi apology but nothing from MIL.

Its been years of NC.  I would be treading carefully, they didn't just ruin their own relationship but the entire extended family.  It seems like they are simply believing that they think they just need to keep their mouth shut about the choices you make and that's it but relationships are much more than that.

Its one thing that they are retiring and want peace with their family but there's probably a lot of hurt there.  This is not something you need to rush into, you can give yourself time to think about it.  At this stage FIL most likely does feel that he wants peace in his family but I have doubts that your MIL feels the same, her silence is deafening.  I would tread slowly and give yourself time and space to think about what you really want and not feel pressured to simply keep everyone else happy at your expense.

I mean how do you feel, if they are willing to communicate with you, how do you feel about that, how do you feel about them seeing your kids?

[xredshoesx]

i agree with hilltop-  MILs silence says EVERYTHING.  you don't go from NC to hanging with the grandkids just because FIL comes around and does a semi apology....

in our situation DH and his sibs deal 100% with their mother.  it's easier for us tho as we are not the ones with the grandkids as opposed to DH's sister who has two kids-  and now that MIL remarried and lives 3 hours away she focuses on her husband's childrens kids and that's been hard on our niece/ nephew as well as DH's sister.

[Leonor]

My first thought when seeing the title of your post was to sip a cup of tea with my pinkie up and say in my really bad imitation of an English accent, "Ohh, doooo they?"

Fellow dil of crazy mil and enfil here who decided to go NC. FIL is in the end stage of CHF. DH is grieving. SIL is out of picture, MIL is in a huff. Grandkids know very little, missing enFIL. This is how we manage: DH stops in on FIL to visit for one hour or less and does not bring any of it home. DH brings kids and meets enFIL for no more than 15 minutes once a week outside. SIL and MIL are no contact with me or kids.

It's a bit convoluted, but thus far it works for us. But that's only because I'm on board, and if at any time I sense we are wandering off track I say it and it's done. I am absolutely "to blame" for it in ILs eyes but I don't care. I embrace it. Once dh was thinking out loud and said, "I'm not the one not talking to people or cutting them off ..." He meant his mom and sister stopped talking to him.

And I said, "No, that was my call."

You do what you want to do. Hold the line, girlfriend, this ain't your first rodeo!

[Call Me Cordelia]

Thank you. We're fortunate that the in-laws are all a long plane ride away.

I do think it's strange this insistence on talking to me and reconciling the faaaaamily. I mean they have been mostly content to ignore us for our whole married life, and then when they snap their fingers it's happy family time. There have been a couple of rounds in the past of, "There, I apologized, can we drop all this boundary stuff now?" and I do fear this is another iteration. I mean, DH hasn't spoken to his mother AT ALL since Christmas, where there was some weird ultimatum where if I'm not willing to talk to them then there's just no point to their relationship with my DH either. Again with the narrative of Cordelia holding the family hostage. And DH was VVVLC before that.

Fortunately we are both on the same page regarding getting the kids back in contact. What FIL expressed regarding being critical and being absorbed in his work is true, and yet... so far from the worst of things and what really pushed me to NC. Which has been expressed to MIL anyway. FIL  gave up communicating with me a couple of years before I gave up.

I feel pretty confident that if I did get on that Zoom call at this point it would be loads of manipulation. It suits them to get us back now that their other sources of supply from career have dried up. And uNgrandpa has been on lockdown in a nursing home so he's probably super bored. That's cynical and judgmental. But it's where my trust level really is, and there are reasons for that.

[Call Me Cordelia]

I was writing at the same time as you, Leonor! Yeah I think you know where I'm coming from, as usual. Pinkies up, witches.

[Cat of the Canals]

I'm also in the "Danger, Will Robinson!" camp. Not that I think you're truly in danger. You're too smart to fall for such a blatant hoovering attempt. 

The fact that MIL hasn't made a peep is very telling. I also agree with what Hilltop said about this being bigger than just "We understand you have your own lives and we won't criticize your choices." I suspect that was the tip of the iceberg in terms of the abuse, so while I'm sure this seems (especially to your husband) that they are "finally listening" to your needs and wants, I find it all very suspect and not even close to examining the actual reality of the relationship.

And lastly, even if they were 100% contrite, I don't believe you owe them anything - not a renewal of the relationship nor even the acceptance of an apology. The problem with apologies is that the damage has already been done. "I'm sorry." and "I won't do it again." doesn't erase the old wounds or restore the lack of trust. So I think it would be totally understandable if your choice was to not have anything to do with them, no matter how much they demonstrate that they've "changed."

[Call Me Cordelia]

Yeah if they were 100% contrite and understood my reality, or even were genuinely "trying", my belief is they would have no expectations or up front requests on me whatsoever. Or at the very least would preface things with some form of, "Clearly we have no right to expect anything." Which written out like that looks like a "gotcha" and perhaps is a bit of black and white thinking, but there it is. When you abuse you lose privilege. 

[Call Me Cordelia]

I'm posting a lot in this topic today but the emotions are catching up with me. I just feel teary and bone-tired. And so sad that DH is holding me to this expectation/sword of Damocles of reconciliation (between his FOO and FOC) needs to happen. And that of course requires my participation. He even trotted out some of those good old shame Bible verses when I shared how I was feeling today. Forgive seventy times seven, and if your brother have a grievance against you go and make peace with your brother, which his family wants to do and good for them so since they are wanting to do the right thing we have an obligation to listen. They have left it so long out of respect for my desire to be left alone and his father is sincere. FIL didn't prescribe a specific path forward, but the desire is shared by everybody but me. Ugh.

We see things very differently. 

 

[Hilltop]

I do think it's strange this insistence on talking to me and reconciling the faaaaamily.
I mean, DH hasn't spoken to his mother AT ALL since Christmas, where there was some weird ultimatum where if I'm not willing to talk to them then there's just no point to their relationship with my DH either.

This stands out to me.  It just seems like some old game that is being brought out to play again.  I mean if it really was about mending bridges you would think they would be happy to build a relationship back up with DH but they aren't.  Your MIL had some weird ultimatum and it appears that she still has it.  Perhaps your FIL has had a moment, looking at his elder years and sees how silly MIL is being or perhaps he is fed up listening to her rant about it and he is doing his bit to get her ultimatum done.

I guess this is what her silence is, is she waiting to see that her ultimatum worked, she won't back down unless you are involved.  I don't know it just seems like some game.

[Cat of the Canals]

Forgive seventy times seven, and if your brother have a grievance against you go and make peace with your brother, which his family wants to do and good for them so since they are wanting to do the right thing we have an obligation to listen.

Making peace/forgiveness/reconciling are not the same thing in my mind. I try to make peace with the PDs in my life - I don't want to hate them or wish them ill, and I truly do wish them peace and try my best to forgive them. But I can do that from a distance... for my own peace.

[Leonor]

You know, I've been thinking about the "won't criticize your choices" thing.

What a passive aggressive thing to say!

And understanding that people have their own lives is not some kind of amazing cosmic insight.

I agree that FIL is most likely *not* trying to reach out to dh or kids. I bet that he is either siding with mil and trying to loop you back in (after all that's his comfort zone too) or wanting you all to come 'round and take some of the heat off of him with his wife.

Cream and sugar,  ?

[Call Me Cordelia]

Haha. You know, I think that we have our own lives and time has passed for us too is kind of a  to narcissists. When I first expressed a need to deal with some issues with my MiL, among her stunningly bad responses was, “I don’t have time to deal with this until I retire in a few years.”  And what do you know, here we are.  It definitely feels like now it’s a convenient time for them all to take us off the shelf and demand supply. And meanwhile my level of motivation to reconcile has certainly not increased.  Imagine that, our lives have been GOOD without them.

I hadn’t thought about “we won’t criticize,” being a passive-aggressive comment, but I was certainly underwhelmed by the little preview I got of the level of insight and improvement promised as well. Things will be different! We won’t rage at you. We’ll just silently disapprove! 

But how do I KNOW what they are like now if I won’t HEAR THEM OUT??! And quit HOLDING A GRUDGE??? Yeah, he said that.

I won’t. That’s a chance I really feel willing to take. I never liked them, I don’t miss them. I’d only be doing it to make DH happy and I have a feeling that for him, his bar for “acceptable” apology would be much much lower than mine and it would be a constant conflict between us. For example, I have a correction to make. MIL did get on the phone with DH for a minute and confirm that yes, she would like to apologize to me. Don’t I see that changes things?!? She talked to him! To repeat her same demand! I feel strongly that this is a no win situation for me to engage in.

I feel very snarky and sarcastic right now, but to DH this is all very real. And the hope is real for him. And for a day or so there I felt really triggered and panicky and sick.

[Leonor]

 

Yeah, I so hear you.

It's like they implant some secret supply button in their children and whenever they run out of supply, they know they've got back up just by pushing that one hidden button ...

And who but they know what it is? It could be a request ("I'm dying do something about it" is easy) but other times it's a look, a tone of voice, a phrase. And wham! the adult is suddenly a six year old, wandering around, teary for mommy.

When I think about that little six year old, who was lost and scared and just needed a kind big person to hold his hand, and was instead manipulated into being more frightened or more sad or more worried for his mommy, I really want to go over to ILs and do some damage.

But dh is an adult and healing is messy. There's no lightbulb, none that you can turn on, anyway. He has to relearn the lesson.

You 

[Cat of the Canals]

I'm sorry, Cordelia. It's so hard to watch the ones we love get drawn back into the FOG. And so very frustrating.

And for a day or so there I felt really triggered and panicky and sick.

Have you told him this is how you feel? I wonder if he knew how triggering and anxiety-inducing this is for you, he'd back off on the pressure. I know I have a tendency to conceal my more vulnerable emotions... I may be preaching Big Fat Boundaries on the outside, but a lot of times I'm So Anxious I Might Barf on the inside.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Thanks. I'm pregnant again, so there is no concealing of the emotions even if I wanted to! You pissed off the pregnant lady with the same old story, you get what's coming to you! Respectfully but candidly furious.

Emotions are another difficult thing for DH... He just doesn't have strong emotions about much of anything. I think it's a combination of temperament and trauma in his case. So emotions for him are sort of a foreign language. He just does not understand why I react, and is inclined to dismiss emotions, and I have a really hard time understanding why he just doesn't and get frustrated with him the same way he does with me. We've been working on that our whole marriage. And since coming Out of the FOG I've had waaay more emotions than ever and am giving myself permission to feel them. Which he's experienced as something of a bait-and-switch. He thought I was emotional BEFORE. Oh well! 

[bloomie]

Cordelia - a lot to process... this latest.

It would be near impossible for me to gauge what exactly the in laws are asking or saying when it has been communicated this way.

Big red flag the sense of urgency that seems to have been stirred up and potential emotional manipulation around the elderly grandpa wanting reconciliation in his family before he dies and him nearing the end of his life... all has been true, I am guessing, for awhile now.

Contrition is another thing I was searching for in their desire to reconcile, but again kinda hard to know or see that with the way they have chosen to handle their request.

Bible passages around sowing and reaping came to mind and that it is not love to circumvent the natural consequences that come when people behave in disrespectful and irresponsible ways toward us, when they refuse to clean up their messes -  we rightly draw away from them.

And that is what love actually looks like. For ourselves and others.

The most important thing in it all from where I sit on the other side of this screen is for you and your DH to keep choosing each other, loving each other, listening to hear, caring for your health with this baby on the way, and your family.  Do not let this in any way divide you, even if you make different choices about reconciling or if to participate in this process with your in laws.

Let us know how you are.

[Leonor]

Oh !

You're expecting!

And NOW FIL wants to reconcile and even MIL has muttered something conciliatory over the phone?!?

Ya think that's a coincidence? I think not!

First off, we wave the Magic Mommy wand all over you to give you extra special super boundary powers, license to express all the feels, and a big you-know-what-off to all and sundry.

Also to give a (ok, metaphorical) slap on the face to dh like Cher does to Nicholas Cage in Moonstruck: "Snap out of it!"

You rule, Queen!

[Call Me Cordelia]

Thank you, Bloomie and Leonor! You're right Bloomie, there really is no new evidence as far as I can tell. Even that vague message that was relayed is mostly about what they want. I've said what I have to say and the rest is not mine.

The IL's do try it on every six months or so, and we've had a baby every couple of years. So I guess this about average on both counts. They have not been informed of this pregnancy.

Which was the case last time too, and MIL saw a friend's photo that included the new baby on Facebook. She responded with a passive-aggressive comment which did press DH's guilt buttons for "hurting them" and started another round of ST towards DH. So maybe that's part of his reaction to this latest attempt. They still treat DH terribly with a pattern of ST and then a half-hearted hoover, which I know is hurtful to him, so he wants to "make it right." As programmed, IMO.

Thanks for listening as always, folks. I am considering next time just not even entertaining the conversation with DH.

[Starboard Song]

I struggle with this issue, though we haven't yet faced it.

If my in-laws showed up now with a deep, heart-felt apology and not demands, and not a faceless desire to generically be on better terms, I'd have a decision to make, like people think you have. I think you are free to simply take a pass.

At some point, it is like a really bad romantic suitor. If you've found a romantic suitor to simply be wrong for you: they aren't attractive to you, you share no interests, they have bad habits, you don't enjoy their company........in such a situation nobody thinks you have to start fresh each time they step forward with another rose and box of chocolates. You made your decision and that is over: no explanations required.

I think it can be that way even with family. My in-laws have shown me who they are. Maybe one day they'll learn. Maybe they'll be genuinely sorry. Maybe they will really try to be better. But even then, I don't think there is a point in starting over with folks that are now six years NC, lost and gone over the horizon in my rearview mirror. I don't think I owe an new chance to such people.

As I say, I struggle with this, still, and greatly respect your situation. I wouldn't have believed this OK when this started 6 years ago. I thought doors just HAD to remain open. Now I see they really don't.