Hiding money

[Associate of Daniel]

Dr. Ramani has a wealth of help and info on her youtube channel.  I've watched many of her videos over the years.

In recent times though I've not been watching so many as I'm (thankfully) pretty much Out of the FOG and things are relatively calm with uNPD exH and his uNPD wife, due to ds now being older (14) and Covid.

But yesterday I watched a video she's done on how and why some nons in pd relationships hide money.

I'm quite rattled by it.

Towards the end of our marriage I used to hide cash from uNPD exH.

He was the sole breadwinner (I was a SAH, homeschooling mum).  He never said anything about how I spent money and he never witheld any from me.  But by the end, he was essentially spending his entire income (6 figures gross) on himself, leaving me to work out how to pay the bills.

So I'd hide a certain amount of cash each pay then use the accumulated amount to pay bills.  I never spent any of it on myself.

I hated doing it.  He had reached a point where he had completely checked out of the relationship and any words I spoke to him, about money or any other subject, just fell into his abyss unheard and unheeded.  He Just. Didn't. Care.

Yesterday's video triggered me I think for 2 reasons.  Maybe 3.

1.  I hate that the relationship turned me into someone that I didn't like.  I wanted to be transparent.  I wanted to trust my husband. But it was impossible and I had to behave in a way that I didn't believe was right in order to be responsible (pay the bills and provide what the family needed).

2.  Whilst I'm healed (I believe) as much as I can be, I know that there are certain issues that I can't heal from unless I'm in a relationship with someone.  And money is a BIG one, especially due to my experience with uNPD exH.

I've been trying to work out ways to handle money with a possible future husband (I've yet to meet someone) that is not offensive to him but that caters to my trust issues in this area.  I've yet to find a solution.

3.  The reminder the video brought of the complete lack of concern that uNPD exH had/has for me (and by extension, ds).  I cannot think of words to adequately describe it.  Black hole? Black abyss?

It's like I simply didn't exist, that I wasn't in his physical presence when I clearly was. Like he'd erased all memory of me. Or that I was just an empty box sitting on his shelf that he'd completely forgotten about, that it never entered his mind to dust or even throw out.

I'm mostly over the hurt of that.  I know it's him, not me.  I have plenty of nons in my life whose personalities remind me that his is not normal.

I think it's the evil of it that unsettles me.  It's an area I don't often visit - evil is not safe.  And I don't want to understand it, let alone have anything to do with it.

Anyway, thoughts anyone?

AOD

[Poison Ivy]

I started crying last night when the thought popped into my head that over the years, both during my marriage and since the divorce, my ex has only very rarely asked me about my job. I've worked for the same employer for more than 30 years. I'm not the manager of my team but I've been with the employer longer than almost everyone else. My coworkers acknowledge my skills and experience, and I think I'm good at what I do. But I don't and didn't talk about my job with ex-h, I think because he had such difficulties with jobs. I didn't quite go into an abyss last night, but I came close. I was just so sad about what I felt I couldn't or shouldn't share with my ex because of his fragility.

[1footouttadefog]

I think it's important to differentiate between habits we have as character flaws and habits that we have as a result of abuse.

The later is warfare.  None of us ask to be at war in our own homes or to be treated as the enemy by the one who pledged to love us and cherish us.

I hope you can sort through the feelings that the rembrance of money issues brought up in a way that brings healing.

[JustKeepTrying]

AOD,

I'm sorry you were triggered.  I sending you this post in solidarity and with good wishes for peace and safety.

I have been thinking about this topic a great lately.  I just had an argument with my ex over money yesterday and I spent a good part of the night upset over it.  He's withholding money from alimony for a variety of reasons that he claims are documented but when I request proof - i get nothing.

It's not much but I think it's about control for him.  His last way he can control me. 

My ex hid a great deal of money from me and I believed for decades that we were barely scraping by - about to loose it all at any moment.  He would claim that my cancer/medical expenses were doing us in.  Now, looking back at all the money he stashed that I found through sheer luck and cunning, I boggle at what could have been a good life together.  I would have enjoyed working together to budget, spending and sharing and building together.  But no, I grow anxious and tense and have so many issues around it.

For me, I think, it's about safety.  And trust.  That essential element in an marriage that was so brazenly denied in a kind of "up yours" attitude toward me - so cruel.  I just don't understand it.  That kind of crazy making thinking that he goes through to hoard his money and get a reaction out of me.

It's all just wrong.

[Pickles66]

This is something that I have been thinking about recently. It's given me quite a jolt.

Money was an enormous issue in my marriage to my late husband. I simply did not trust him, and for years I blamed myself. It was my CPTSD that made me lack trust. It was all my fault.

I think the essence of the problem was that he used money to absolutely control the entire family. He maintained that he wasn't at all interested in money, but his actions defied this. Everything was about money, and about him spending money to make himself look good. Yes, he didn't want to save money, ever, but he loved to have a wallet full of notes (despite credit cards) and spend, spend, spend.

If I ever queried his spending, I was soundly told off. It was his money, he earned it, I could spend if I wanted to, and I could not challenge his spending on our daughter, because "she's your daughter"! He was not generous with our sons, in any way.

When he became terminally ill, after he started divorce proceedings, absolutely everything became about money. It was horrendous, but for the first time ever, I had access to our joint account, so every time he withdrew hundreds of pounds, I did the same. I felt so bad, but I had to, because he was hell bent on ruining us, and leaving us unable to pay mortgage and bills, despite getting his full pay.

It was during his illness that I also began to question my daughter's personality. Husband was giving her so much money that she did not need. She has a good job and savings. So I suggested she return it for our bills. She was so angry, and threw it down for me to pick up. Things went down hill after that.

Daughter took over all funeral arrangements and had a very extravagant event for her dad. It took me a while to realise that pretty much her entire eulogy to him was about his generosity.

All of our three adult children did very well financially from husband's death benefits and the sale of our family home. Daughter maintained contact with me until the finances were settled. Then cut contact. Maybe she feels guilty about forcing me to sell my home, but I wonder if she was expecting me to hand over the money I got from the house. I don't suppose I will ever know.

It was a truly awful situation, but I have come through it. I now know that I don't need much, just security. I have that now, and can see how I never had that with husband.

I hope that I haven't bored you all with my story. In real life, it's hard to talk about these things, because husband died so tragically.

Thank you for listening.

[Boat Babe]

Financial abuse is a very real thing and more common than most people think.  I would imagine for those people at the malignant end of the PD spectrum see it as yet another tool in their abuse tool kit.   Others may have extreme anxiety around money and the security it can provide. The stereotypical miser isn't just someone who hoards money; they often have other comorbidities.

I would advise any young person entering marriage/co-living to have their own income and their own bank account. Even if you trust your partner as other life events mean that you need to be financially independent.

[Cat of the Canals]

I think it's important to differentiate between habits we have as character flaws and habits that we have as a result of abuse.

The later is warfare. 

I think it's also about survival. I spent much of my life feeling guilty for all the things I hid from PDmom. I asked myself a thousand times why I couldn't just be honest with her? I wanted to be honest and transparent, too. I wanted to share who I was freely. It felt bad not do that. But I just... couldn't.

Only once I came Out of the FOG could I see that I was protecting myself. From her intrusive questions, from her need to control everything about me, from her desire to keep me fully enmeshed and dependent. I also realized that I was honest and open and transparent with other people. With nearly everyone but my mother, really. So the issue had never really been about me. It'd been about her all along. I knew in my gut that she wasn't "safe."

It sounds like you had the same gut instinct with your ex. You didn't choose dishonesty. You were forced into it when your ex checked out and was no longer putting any thought or effort into supporting the family. It was natural and (I think) admirable that you would step up and do what it took to make sure the bills were paid.

[D.]

AOD,

I hear you around the stress, trigger and safety issues that can come up around money.  And your concern about how you want to be now, in the present.  To feel safe with money both yourself and with any potential partner.  I, like you and many here, experienced a form of financial abuse.  And I still get triggered into feeling quite what I feel is like a "miser" with money - i don't want to use or share it.  But, it's because of the past.  Like you I recognized that as an anxious response related to past abuse.  When I met my current husband he had a few perspectives with money that initially triggered me, but we talked through things and being the kind and appropriate healthy human he is, he was quite willing to adjust and work together on how we use our funds.  When you meet someone that is healthy that will happen - he will be willing to listen and work with you.  Perhaps you will need a certain amount of "free" spending money to use as you choose, or make sure you pay the bills together first, whatever works.  In my case initially my H didn't understand my fear of accumulating debt and history w/uPDxH.  Once he did he got on board with paying credit card debt off w/each pay check.  And as he stepped up to meet our financial goals I found myself gradually developing more and more trust w/him around finances.  Now, I seldom feel stressed about money.