Projection

[11JB68]

I keep coming back to this one.
SO much of updh's stuff is projection
Spent lots of time and effort fixing end of driveway so it would be easier for'me' to get in and out.
He has trouble backing out. Yesterday: oh that's so much easier! (It was all for him!)
Tonight he went on a thing about being sorry about having to visit fil, he knows I don't want to.... He was the one yesterday who didn't want to go... He wanted to stay home and watch sports.

[Starboard Song]

I thought I understood projection until our crisis with my in-laws. It wasn't just that some of the things they accused us of they were doing: it was that their letters to us had to be so long so they wouldn't leave a single thing out, every bit of it transported from their backs to ours. It was shocking.

Be good. Be strong.

[ploughthrough2021]

Yes, I get that a lot from my uNPDw.  She's always doing things for me but it is really for her...

[losingmyself]

Once I learned about projection, I see that most of the unhealthy behavior toward me is projection. Either blaming me for something he actually did, or a thing he's worried about in the future, or just frustration over a thing that's not working out his way.
Honestly, it's fascinating, once I learned to see it that way, and not blame myself.
One thing I am curious about, once in many arguments about the kids, he said that he knew  more about parenting than I did. Which is so ridiculously the opposite of the truth that it left me speechless. It was like he had said that he knows more about the pain of childbirth than I do, which he would probably agree with, honestly.
I just wonder if this was projection? Like, "You didn't have a good FOO, I did"  Which is complete BS. And if he says it enough times, it makes it true?
Projection?

[Lauren17]

My uBPD/NPDh makes these obviously untrue statements often.
I've heard the one about his FOO being great and mine being toxic.
I once spent a weekend cleaning out the garage, while he lazed on the sofa. The next day, I heard him telling his mom how he always keeps his garage neat and tidy and cleans it regularly.
It's not projection, which is a person assigning their negative traits to someone else. Its almost the opposite, they are trying to take credit for your positive traits. What's the opposite of projection? Absorption? 

[Justanotherlostgirl]

All the things my partner does he assigns to me.

He doesn't clean the house - I don't clean it.
He cheats - I'm sneaking around and cheating.
He's in debt - I can't handle money.

As the above poster said, anything good I do, suddenly becomes what he does, with the added twist of him saying I don't do it.

For example he told his whole family he pays for everything whilst I pay for nothing and he doesn't know where my money has gone. In fact he paid only for his car while I paid for our apartment, lights, air con, phone plans, food, diapers, formula and etc. Furthermore, he  will go on to use this projection as an excuse for his bad behavior as if this projection somehow absolves him from any guilt, shame or responsibility he should hold for cheating, lying and manipulating. He told everyone else that's the truth - and I couldn't really defend myself, because at the time I didn't speak the language of his family and friends. He basically lied and lied and lied about his projections until he believed them. So much so he has made everyone around us believe that HE is the victim of my foul behavior, when the behaviors are actually his. 

Round and round it goes, I hate it so much. Does anyone have any insight into WHY they do this?

[SonofThunder]

Why they do it?   My opinion is that the hallmark underlying issue of PD's is self-emptyness; a disdain for themselves, as they never developed an ability to truly love others or themselves.  Their actions may look like self-appreciation, especially with NPD's, but its really masked self-loathing. 

Therefore imo, projection is a mental-disconnect way to transfer ones own faults to another person, so the PD doesn't see themselves for who they truly are.  I personally believe there is another layer to projection, which is 'deception' and/or 'deflection'. I just simply call it 'smokescreening'.   Both my PD's (wife and father) will create drama as a smokescreen to shield what wrong they are doing, from being recognized.  Smoke-screening is not always a projection-reflection of the same thing (such as JALG's 3 reflected things she listed above), but it is a purposeful and proactive method to accuse/blame someone (or something) that hides (or detours away any visibility/focus on) a wrongful different thing they are doing. 

SoT

[Justanotherlostgirl]

Why they do it?   My opinion is that the hallmark underlying issue of PD's is self-emptyness; a disdain for themselves, as they never developed an ability to truly love others or themselves.  Their actions may look like self-appreciation, especially with NPD's, but its really masked self-loathing. 

Therefore imo, projection is a mental-disconnect way to transfer ones own faults to another person, so the PD doesn't see themselves for who they truly are.  I personally believe there is another layer to projection, which is 'deception' and/or 'deflection'. I just simply call it 'smokescreening'.   Both my PD's (wife and father) will create drama as a smokescreen to shield what wrong they are doing, from being recognized.  Smoke-screening is not always a projection-reflection of the same thing (such as JALG's 3 reflected things she listed above), but it is a purposeful and proactive method to accuse/blame someone (or something) that hides (or detours away any visibility/focus on) a wrongful different thing they are doing. 

SoT

I wonder if it actually goes even further than this in that the projection is a way for them to become the victim, therefore giving them the attention they crave and also giving them the control they need by taking that empathy away from the non-PD and placing it on themselves. It's yet another layer when they get others involved to feel sorry for them. Not only is it the control of the non PD not even knowing, or knowing and not saying anything, but they are controlling the feelings of everyone else too.

I know what you mean SOT. I've been looking for a way to describe this smokescreening myself. When my husbands brother told me he saw that my husband was talking to his gf on his phone, my husband conveniently had a large fight with his father that had nothing to do with it the next day. I guess it is a blessing we really can't understand completely what goes on in their heads. It boggles the mind. 

[SonofThunder]

Why they do it?   My opinion is that the hallmark underlying issue of PD's is self-emptyness; a disdain for themselves, as they never developed an ability to truly love others or themselves.  Their actions may look like self-appreciation, especially with NPD's, but its really masked self-loathing. 

Therefore imo, projection is a mental-disconnect way to transfer ones own faults to another person, so the PD doesn't see themselves for who they truly are.  I personally believe there is another layer to projection, which is 'deception' and/or 'deflection'. I just simply call it 'smokescreening'.   Both my PD's (wife and father) will create drama as a smokescreen to shield what wrong they are doing, from being recognized.  Smoke-screening is not always a projection-reflection of the same thing (such as JALG's 3 reflected things she listed above), but it is a purposeful and proactive method to accuse/blame someone (or something) that hides (or detours away any visibility/focus on) a wrongful different thing they are doing. 

SoT

I wonder if it actually goes even further than this in that the projection is a way for them to become the victim, therefore giving them the attention they crave and also giving them the control they need by taking that empathy away from the non-PD and placing it on themselves. It's yet another layer when they get others involved to feel sorry for them. Not only is it the control of the non PD not even knowing, or knowing and not saying anything, but they are controlling the feelings of everyone else too.

I know what you mean SOT. I've been looking for a way to describe this smokescreening myself. When my husbands brother told me he saw that my husband was talking to his gf on his phone, my husband conveniently had a large fight with his father that had nothing to do with it the next day. I guess it is a blessing we really can't understand completely what goes on in their heads. It boggles the mind. 

JALG, i believe your 'victim' point is well made, but lets maybe consider it even further, in relation to the drama triangle and your examples vs the OP's (11JB68). 

In Fjelstads book 'Stop Caretaking the Borderline and Narcissist', she discusses the three drama roles (Stephen Karman Drama Triangle) around which two (or three) people rotate (one being a PD).  For clarity, the below text is quoted from an online article discussing Karpman's triangle. 
————
The Victim:
The victim in Karpman's triangle is not an actual victim, but rather someone feeling or acting like a victim. Karpman, who had interests in acting and was a member of the screen actors guild, choose the term "drama triangle" rather the term "conflict triangle" because his victim is acting. Nonetheless, the victim sincerely feels victimized, oppressed, helpless, hopeless, powerless, ashamed, and seems unable to make decisions, solve problems, take pleasure in life, or achieve insight. The victim's  stance is "Poor me!"

The Persecutor:
The persecutor is controlling, blaming, critical, oppressive, angry, authoritative, rigid, and superior - self righteous. The persecutor insists, "It's all your fault."

The Rescuer:
The rescuer is a classic enabler. The rescuer feels guilty if he/she doesn't rescue. Yet his/her rescuing has negative effects: it keeps the victim dependent and gives the victim permission to fail. It also keeps the rescuer stuck in focusing energy on someone else's problems, not solving his/her own. The rescuer's line is "Let me help you."
————

In 11JB68's original post, her examples of projection were classic triangle roles with two people:

"Spent lots of time and effort fixing end of driveway so it would be easier for 'me' to get in and out.  He has trouble backing out."

In this situation, the 'projection' transferred the problem to 11JB68, making her husband the rescuer and 11JB68 the victim. Imo, him being the 'projected' rescuer, shielded himself (in his own mind since its only 2 people) the embarrassment of his driving skills and in addition it gives himself a (false) pat on the back (i call that 'trophyism').

"Tonight he went on a thing about being sorry about having to visit fil, he knows I don't want to.... He was the one yesterday who didn't want to go... He wanted to stay home and watch sports."

In this example, its the same thing. 11JB68 is the victim, and in a way, he is again the rescuer (mentally) by projecting false compassion to shield his own mind from his true self-desires to "stay home and watch sports".  He again gave himself a compassion trophy as well.

In JALG's examples though, I believe its still represented on the triangle, but the motive isn't necessarily only 'victim' for the PD, to hide true self-motives (like 11JB68's examples) but the manipulative  'smoke-screening' type of 'projection' because the PD is playing both of the drama-triangle roles at the same time and JALG is being gaslighted in accusation.

"He doesn't clean the house - I don't clean it."

In this example, JALG's husband is both the victim and the persecutor, accusing her of not cleaning.  Its manipulative gaslighting imo, that (in his mind), justifies his actions away from the home (smokescreen) by putting down JALG (to her directly and potentially to her in front of others). 

"He cheats - I'm sneaking around and cheating."
I believe this is the same two roles for smokescreen 'projection' as the cleaning example. 

"He's in debt - I can't handle money."
Same two roles, persecutor and victim.  Gaslighting manipulative projective smokescreen to justify wrongdoing. 

So again JALG, i believe you are correct in the victimization, but looking at it on the triangle, the comparison and motive for the projection between the two men, is very different. 

Imo, when a PD is playing both roles of persecutor and victim, they are proactively gaslighting/manipulating to hide wrongdoing by the 'smokescreen' of both roles.  When this occurs with me, its a clue for me to further investigate (secretively) to figure out the wrongdoing, to further educate myself, which helps me plan ahead.

SoT

[tragedy or hope]

Great discussion. What I learned awhile back is the unnpdh will tell me who HE is by the criticism he gives ME.

I have learned a lot about his internal struggles by listening as if he sat me down to tell me who HE is. I do not think of his comments directed toward me to BE about me, I don't and will not believe him by choice.

Mostly, I hear in his tone and manner what he is really trying to do to me... intimidate, unnerve, blame etc. Once I got that, at his most outraged moments I want to laugh as I know all the evils he intends or does are being revealed. NOT mine. I have trained myself to listen this way. Occasionally I am caught off guard but mostly this helps me a lot. This is how I have decided to cope with this situation.

As my Mya Angelou below in my quotes says; " when people show you who they are believe them." The first time!