Control

[Gettintired76]

Ty EM yes it has been hell, some days better then others, I too I guess you can say have it ingrained to not be able to say no I won't it's done. She dumped me which kinda helped although it hurt that she was cheating yet again, but now she is taking complete orders from the guy she cheated with.

[Gettintired76]

Not to hyjack but to finish my last post, I found out from my daughter she lets him "punishment them, as in he picked my Autistic daughter up threw her in his car, jumped on her and started screaming at her. They have to stay on the couch and be quiet because he can't deal with kids or he will punish them. I did however have a wonderful Thanksgiving with my three babies. Still trucking, you keep fighting too EM we are right there with you!

[hhaw]

EM:

You will never control your stbx's reactions.

You can't please everyone, be everything to everyone or base your happiness on other people's happiness.

Well.....you can try, but the Buhhdists would say this is suffering.  A lot of suffering and I found it to be very true.

If I could go back.....I would take stock if what I COULD do and what I couldn't in my divorce.

I would have accepted those truths and done my best to form a plan based on what I could do
AND
those things the system could do for me and my children.

Placating my ASPD N failed.  I should have turned away entirely from trying gain his understanding.  Feeling guilty for failing would have been discarded as well.

What I could do was document and exert authority over him through the courts.  THESE things drive my ASPD into crazy making, threatening, completely off the chain behaviors
Designed
To
Overwhelm
And
Paralyze me.

He did a good job and I wasted much energy spinning my wheels in fear and horror.

Focusing on what you can do.....limiting the worrying and sitting in fear.....making the most if your legal options ( excluding the daydream of settling or changing the PD) would have improved my mental health AND made me more responsive to my children and self.

Limiting or ending the hope my PD would be kind, decent or fair would have meant less suffering for me.  It would have freed up energy to strategize and limit harm....limit everything bad, including time, trauma and expenses.

I hope you accept what you can't change, utilize the courts/police/abuse agencies and limit the PD's voice/presence/ threats and harm.

I wish I could have made a plan and protected myself and children while completely distancing the PD in our lives....but that would have included telling the truth, pressing charges against the PD without hesitation and focusing on proving my case sans protecting the PD in any way.

Your strength will ebb and flow.  Do what you can to limit the divorce fiasco, while you still can.

[escapingman]

Again, thanks for your wisdom hhaw.

I know I can't control stbx and what she does is complete out of my control, however I tell her or not tell her she will react in whatever way she decides. I think it is still my own conscious that makes me not pull the trigger without telling her, and I feel bad to tell her when she is reasonable good. All manipulations of course, I get that, but it's so deeply rooted to not betray her. I really understand all advice that says you need to go no contact, I wish I could, that would make me stronger. To see her every day is making it so much harder, but how do I go no contact with kids? I probably just have to instruct my solicitor to file, then take whatever she throws at me when she does. In her world I can't end this in a good way, as I am not allowed to end it at all..... One problem is that if she actually behaved like she is doing now all the time I wouldn't ask for a divorce, but she hasn't behaved like this until she received the letter about the divorce. She is still back chatting me to the kids, her mask is still slipping every now and then. It really feels like she is standing there in front of me begging me to hug her and the same time has one arm behind my back with a knife stabbing me.

Give me strength.

[hhaw]

EM:

Accept stbx will behave very badly when you file......then file when it's right for you. 

Her behavior will inform the court how visitation and communication between you proceeds.

And it's ok.  No matter how it goes, at least you're heading towards the exit door and modeling a healthier family system for your kids.

I wish you could put on an imaginary helmet when your stbx is around ...just block her words from you ur brain.  Every one if them is meant to prolong, prevent and confuse the divorce.  She wants to wear you down. 

Once she's out if your head you'll feel many things, ime.  Mostly, you'll start to feel like the person you were before the marriage.  This is where healing begins, ime.

The longer you're worn down, the more exhausting actual divorce is, but that's ok too. 

Just keep breathing and documenting and touching base with all the agencies involved.

Secrets give her power.  Protecting her and giving in on small things she asks for give her power, ime.

[escapingman]

I think I am getting stronger, or at least I am imaging it. Yesterday she kept pushing for hugs and kisses and told my I was cruel and nasty to deny her. Then she tried the emotional blackmails and talked about future, our kids and so on, I did not engage. Last after she tried to get me into watch tv with her she asked me straight but as a statement that I am going ahead with the divorce aren't you. When I replied yes she broke down in tears on the floor with SG coming out of bed wondering what was going on. Today I stayed in bed until stbx had left the house, not sure which version of her she is today, but my guess is she will be back to trying to get me to change my mind again. At the same time she is trying to muddle the water and distract me with couples counselling, holidays away, Christmas and gifts. I am close to just draw the line in the sand and that's it. What if this Christmas will be ruined because I file? It will be ruined anyway as she will get stressed and kick off.

[Boat Babe]

It's not going to be a great Christmas whatever you do, so maybe choose the one that moves you, and your girls, forwards, so that next Christmas can be a really good one.

In my work I found out that the cortisol and adrenaline levels in children witnessing domestic abuse is as high as that of a soldier in full combat mode.  That in itself is a whole thread on the PD parents' board, but I digress. Don't underestimate how  your body chemistry is at the moment. And how long it's been going on. This is certainly affecting your decision making too as you are in full stress response mode and have been hijacked by your poor overworked amygdala. That's when your prefrontal cortex goes offline and fight, flight or freeze kick in.

Breathing,deeply and slowly, for ten minutes can reset your body and get you thinking clearly again.

[hhaw]

EM:
Christmas will be good, bad, terrible, but magical in the moments you connect with your children, ime.  Accept this and put whatever holiday stories plague you on the shelf.  Just.....let them be.

I was reading through old journals from stressful days and it's shocking how much energy I wasted on worry about things I couldn't control.

And I KNEW what was happening too.  I wrote about my awareness around coping strategies and my lack of them. 

Please.......release outcome.  Get very curious.  Be super kind to yourself.

Cultivate and seek out joy......

Like a game.

Maybe keep count of joyful moments. 

I hope you're journaling things you can share with the court.  Dates, events, what everyone is doing and saying ... You know.  The highlights. 

Stay level.  State facts.  No judgment.  Remember, the PD might be recording you too.

Stay strong and kind to yourself.  Christmas will take care of itself.  Maybe make cookies with girls and decorate them?  Make sure they make one for Mommy and maybe teachers...... decorating cookies is magical in our house.  My girls and cousins are 19yo and older and still get as excited as little children. 

You can focus on THAT kind of joy in the house AND document the PD's outbursts ( and how you handle them, btw.)

We buy gluten free sugar cookie mix, the kids make everything and enjoy selecting the cutters they'll use.  You can clean counters with the girls, purchase ingredients, find recipes and ideas with them. 

The holiday joy is in cultivating new family rituals, ime.  Involve the kids.  Ask what they want to do.  Do it.

Honestly, THAT kind of focus IS super helpful, ime.  Your mental health follows what you think about.

Be very selective about what you think about.....simply bounce over the worry and fear......go back to joy and kids and new rituals as often as required, sans any judgment.

You're doing the best you can and I am so very proud of you in these trying circumstances, EM.

Truly.

Build the holiday you want to have with your girls and accept it won't be perfect....and that's ok too.

[escapingman]

I think I have a problem as long as I am in same house as stbx, my Amygdala has been seriously hijacked. I jump as soon as she just enters the room, the stress levels go up and then I struggle to settle down again and this is even when she hasn't said anything special. She is accusing me for snapping, I can feel it as well, as soon as she tells me something I immediately get into fight mode as I am so used to everything being criticism. I can't, or my brain can't just settle down and behave like everything is normal just because she has got back into the idealise phase of the cycle. I am fully aware of what comes after this phase and I am not looking forward to it. As you all have stated, it's not something I can stop, I can probably delay it or try to steer it in a different direction, but I will never be able to stop it. She will lose her temper, she will start shouting, she will lash out, this I can't stop but I can delay as long as she thinks her manipulations are working. When I file, BAAAM, she will rage. If she thinks she has manipulated me back in the relationship, BAAAAM, she will rage. If this status quo continues, she will eventually slip up and, BAAAAM she will rage. I have my initial appointment with therapist next week, I am really looking forward to this as this is the missing link right now. I really hope I can get someone that get this and not to be fobbed off for just having depression and then that's it.

December will be huge, I am not looking forward to it but hopefully progress will be made.

[hhaw]

I'm not asking you to switch your amygdala off.

I'm asking you to attempt focus on your children, as you can......to document your experience.

For several reasons, this will likely benefit you, ime.

This is an opportunity to show the court and attorneys what your dealing with, what the girls are exposed to, why your requests to limit the PD's abuse are necessary and why you can't remain in the marriage.

It's a chance to practice shifting focus from negative to positive or neutral thoughts, which is what meditation and breathing techniques do, ime. 

3rd.....
One day you'll look back and wish you'd managed to really be present with your girls more often during these stressful days.  I know, bc my journals are largely absent of the lovely mother/ child moments I typically documented and it feels like a punch in the gut, taking my breath, driving me toward despair in unguarded moments, bc I know what that struggle cost me......and I can never get those years, months, moments back.

Yesterday I went through journals with my oldest DD and her eyes lit up as we shared the stories of her and her sister's daily life at home, school and family events.  During the divorce I managed very few stories about my girls and our time together, but they're precious to me and feel like sunlight after years living in a dark hole.  They're a balm and I cherish them and the connection with my now 21 yo DD.

Someday you'll have forgotten so many things.....
to sit down, look your children in the eye and really BE present with them at this age...
to record the lovely moments you DO manage, so you have them to process...so they're IN your DD's Nervous Systems.....so you can sit and read them together when all is said and done in the marriage, they'll BE THERE, waiting for all 3 of you.

I will say, my 19yo doesn't want to hear these stories....and that's very sad for me and 21yo DD, bc we both want to talk together and share the stories and details. 

For now, recounting the moments with 21yo, laughing about surprising/happy/sad, but REAL shared moments feels so very precious.

I wish I'd known to DO that through the days of living in the house with an ASPD N who took my focus, had me living in real fear and outside the mindful presence of our children, which really harmed the girls.

In the middle of it and after the PD was removed, but still terrorizing us, my mom was with us quite a bit.  One stormy afternoon we all went into the porch to listen to the trees tell is the rain was on it's way.  We opened umbrellas as the sky opened up then squealed and ran into the house and built a forte where Grandma held a flashlight under her chin and jump scared us with a scary story.  We all were IN THOSE moments, like children.  I didn't know how to be present under the siege I was forced to initiate (in court) and I sure didn't know how to suffer less/ cultivate joy/ show the court OUR TRUTH.

Simply turning toward the children, over and over, would have helped.  Documenting the moments would have helped.  HAVING those moments feels like preserving a piece of my actual heart and I want you to preserve and regrow as much of yourself as possible through this.  Esp since you don't have family to buffer, help and protect you it seems.

I hope you shift your focus to the kids more often, maybe mark those entries on your calendar with a heart and use the board.....our lenses........to buffer you enough....... redirect focus to BE present more often with your girls and document them.....for the court, your girls and yourself, bc you'll be so grateful you did, ime.

Take SoT INTO your home and SEE your stbx through his lenses.  See your children and use his POV to help you...maybe?

One day, years down the road, you'll look back and wrestle with regrets.

I hope you can mitigate and limit them better than I managed, EM.....while there's still time. I really do.

[escapingman]

I get you hhaw, but to be able to focus on the kids I need to get myself straight as well. I have great memories with my girls, lately mostly with SG. Today we went out shopping for a couple of hours, didn't buy anything but just browsing and having a nice time together. SG wanted the trip and specified only me and her, she said she wanted the peace and calm and just needed away from stbx and GC. I know it will all be fine in the end, it's just a question of how bumby the road will be.

[escapingman]

I am struggling right now, I am starting to feel boxed in and her crazymaking is making me crazy. Yesterday I was close to losing my temper, massively. She is doing some work, no one really knows what it is but she sits in the kitchen, which is bang in the middle of the house, needing to concentrate demanding everyone to be quiet. Kids have to eat in silence as she has to do this work next to them when they eat, for some reason she can't use my desk or the kids table, she has to be in the middle of it all. No one can disturb her. BUT, when someone else is working..... Me doing my work, kids doing homework, she walks around in the house, singing, whistling, starting conversations about anything, getting the hoover out, loudly swearing if something goes wrong, you name it, anything, absolutely anything except from being quiet.

On top of all above, she behaves like a child (yes I realise she is a child emotionally), she cries on the floor, screams, throw things and threatens us when she doesn't get her way. How many times can I go through her tantrums as she behaves like it's the first time I told her we are divorcing? I must have told her 10 times now with her first breaking down in tears and then 5 minutes later pretends it's not happening. Then when I file I know she will absolutely loose it and blame me for not telling her about it (so she can try to stop it or buy more time again).

Since she is desperately trying to be good to me, she has to have another person painted black. At the moment GC has became her new target, it's not extreme at the moment but it's there with the criticism and digs. But she is the one complaining why our family doesn't work like a 4  How can she not see? Are they (PD) so stupid they can't see, or can she see what she is doing but still doing it?

Oh well, another week is starting and hopefully this one will bring me just a little bit closer to my goal of freedom.

[Andeza]

"Are they (PD) so stupid they can't see, or can she see what she is doing but still doing it?"

There are high and low functioning versions of every PD type, without regard to actual intelligence. High and low functioning here regards their behavior and their ability to interact with others. With all this toddler style tantrumming I'm inclined to believe you've got a very low functioning individual on your hands. What that means is that any and all cases of not getting their way devolve into these crying fits you're witnessing as opposed to the reactions of a more high functioning type. If your wife were high functioning, she (probably) wouldn't be throwing a fit, she'd smile and carry on whilst planning how to get even with you. She also believes that her reaction is 100% justified and normal and "anybody else" would react the exact same way. Even if she did recognize that it is not and she should not, she would still act the same way despite recognizing the need for change because the thing in our brains that allows us to change long term behavior and reactions is broken in her. That's why pwPDs need a mental health professional and special courses designed to help reconnect these broken functions. Changing on their own is virtually impossible, except getting worse. They don't need help to accomplish that sadly. Additionally, the tantrum is performed with intent to make you feel bad enough about how badly you've made her feel that you just drop the idea of the divorce entirely.

I don't know a ton about divorce... That said is there anyway you can plan to have witnesses (friends, your lawyer, the police) present for your well-being and to serve as witnesses to her reaction when she finds out you've filed?

[hhaw]

EM:

What's the worst thing that could happen IF you just file the divorce and get on with limiting harm and preserving your mental health?

It's going to be a mess, no matter what you do, ime.

Choosing the least harmful/shortest route IS the best we can do IF we're committed and feel safe enough to do so, ime.

The courts and attorneys are used to victims changing their minds and losing momentum in a system choked with people NOT hesitating and vacillating, ime.  Once we're labeled part of the problem we lose ability to get out with economy of EVERYTHING, ime.

I'll write it again, bc it's important......
Make a good plan with your team.
Release outcome, bc you can't control much, but you can get divorced and provide a stable home for your girls.
STICK to your plan while limiting/ending PD access to you.
Document always, never stop, particularly when your attorney says your PD is settling.  Don't cancel any hearings or trial dates UNTIL you have a signed, stamped and filed Agreement/Final Order in your hand and
Never
Stop
Documenting.

As my Martial Arts instructor used to say...."if you hesitate, you donate."

Of course, he was right, but I didn't understand how it applied across so many applications.  He meant a good offense is a good defense and in the legal system it's very true, ime.

EM.....what do you think you stbx is working on?  Likely, she's manufacturing chaos and confusing your ability to utilize the system efficiently.  You're gifting her this time and opportunity, which is what most of us do, ime.  She'll continue doing what she does.... it's her nature.  You can't figure it out, but you can spin wheels thinking about it.

Acceptance is our friend....across the board, ime.

My Martial Arts instructor tried to teach that lesson also.  Of course, I had to learn that the hard way too.

I hope your T is good.  The sooner the kids get T, the better too.

[escapingman]

Thank you so much for your support, your message Andeza is a real eyeopener and spot on. I learn something every day.

To be honest, I have written stbx off and I know I will need a divorce. But, I really don't think she is planning and scheming behind my back, I really think she thinks all is fine now. I have realised she sees me as her caretaker, and I mean Caretaker with a capital C. She doesn't love me, but she needs me. If she loved me, like a normal person loves someone, she would not be happy with sleeping in different bedrooms. But she is, as long as I still provide for her and she can control me. Now she is shaken, but she still tries, but not the way anyone serious would try. I have told her the reason I want a divorce is that she has hurt me and I can't get past it, she has not apologised and seems to think she can sort this out with only telling me she loves me. Empty words to me. If she actually said, I am so sorry I hurt you. I promise to not do that again, I might have thought twice. But she doesn't, she is completely unaware. Frightening, scary and very sad.

[escapingman]

A bit of a set back, had my assessment for therapy and it's a two month waitlist. Need to consider if I should try to go private instead as I need help now and not in two months. It was good talking to someone though and to get the validations that my stbx behaviour is not OK. I have been having a few really hard days emotionally as stbx has put in all the effort to love bomb me, I am resisting it but my brain is trying to tell me to give in and how nice it would be to just forget about it all. But I suppose my cognitive dissonance has started to crack a bit as I can play the entire movie and see that in the end it will be as before with her abusing me. I have been fighting hard to get where I am, and I cannot let my brain get hooked on her again. I rejected an evening with her that she had tried to force upon me, she was not happy. I had tried to tell her for a long time I wasn't interested but she kept pushing and pushing. I could see her mask slipping for a short moment, that was enough to see what to expect if I stay with her.

I might need to have another chat with my solicitor about moving out, it is a nightmare to be in the same house as her and it kind of stop me from making any progress. I am kind of frozen to one spot and not moving on in fear of her reaction. Maybe it would work to go away and stay in a hotel and let my solicitor file whilst I am away, a bit worried about leaving the kids at home under those circumstances though. But I just don't trust myself around her, I am still struggling to say no to her and we are in a stalemate now where I try and try and try to end it but she refuse to accept it and I just don't push the button of fear for what she will do.

[moglow]

From a "child of" who was very much caught in the middle - you owe it to yourself and the kids to establish a stable home. If separate is the only option, so be it. Holding on to an unstable volatile home life thinking to somehow "keep the family together" serves no one.

I can tell you, those kids are going to do what they have to, to get by. They may play you off against each other if they can, may do or say anything to placate mom - whether you're in the house or not. They're *kids* and shouldn't be used as pawns or caught in the crossfire. It's not their war!

It took me many years before I realized Daddy left to set up a home for us, a place where we'd be welcome. Mother told us "he left us in this mess ..." No, he left HER and she created "this mess" out of spite and pride and ignorance! It was ugly and mother pulled out all the stops, but that's on HER. She was going to do it whether he was there or not.

All these years later all I can wonder is how or why Daddy hung in there as long as he did. Thank God he DID leave and set up another place for us to go!

[escapingman]

Thanks Moglow, I cannot believe how much knowledge there is in here and how much valuable advice I am getting. At the moment her crazymaking has reached new levels, I honestly don't know how she can do it. The kids are already playing the games, hence the urgency. I am so worn down, exhausted by what she puts me through right now. She can't get a no so she tries and tries again until I would change my mind. She comes into my room when I am working, tries to get me to drop whatever so she is in the spotlight. When I turn her away, she goes into the kitvchen, has a rant about me, then comes back in and tries again, and so she keeps going on. I think I must have said no at least 50 times today to her various attempts and she still expects me to join her watching tv together. I really don't know who will break first, her or me. I know when my limit is reached I will just walk, file and then that's it. If/when she breaks it will be ugly, but not sure in what way.

[Poison Ivy]

I suggest that you not wait to file for divorce until either of you "breaks."

[moglow]

Don't leave out of desperation and screaming for the door as a last resort. Use this time to think it through, plan, and have your path in place so you're not sleeping in your car. It'll be a whole lot more feasible to have your children with you and/or visit when you have a place to take them. No judge will look kindly on shared custody without at least the appearance of stability.

My biggest takeaway from Daddy and mommie dearest: He never talked smack about her. He listened and did what he could for us, not "against" or in retaliation where she was concerned. I never knew how he did it, but in spite of everything she said and did, he took and held the high road. She shredded our family but Daddy hung in there for the four of us.