Worn out but standing firm

[hhaw]

EM:

What is the plan for getting your children into therapy and protecting them going forward?

They aren't protected now. 

If you create a safe environment for them to decompress and feel safe....THAT is everything, ime.  There's a narrow window of opportunity to intervene and positively impact for maximum healing and growth through the dysfunction, ime.

The kids are crushed in this adult conflict and you can SEE the harm, watch the red flags fly, hear the evidence of active trauma inflicted daily.

You're miserable, under high pressure, suffering...... everyone in your household is suffering.

What is it you believe you gain when you put off filing, EM?

What could be gained from filing?

Try to focus on the plan to make yourself and children safe.....not on the chaos the stbx will create.  You're already IN chaos. 

Whatever the best possible plan to protect your kids and self......get it together with your attorney and child advocate services to put it in motion, make your kids as safe as you can, EM.

You're under tremendous pressure.  Your children are dialed into everything going on between you and their mother. 

Your children won't have a safe or peaceful Christmas, even if you don't file.

What actions serves your mission to get your children the healing and support they need?







.

[escapingman]

Very good questions hhaw, I think I have some answers.

What is the plan for getting your children into therapy and protecting them going forward?

Currently no firm plan, but as soon as I am out I will try to get them both into therapy. I hop my own therapist when I start therapy can guide me in how to do this best.

What is it you believe you gain when you put off filing, EM?

Time hhaw, time. I am scared. When filing she will do all she can to turn those kids against me, I am trying to get into a good space with the kids before the smearing starts up again. STBX threatened about this, I am sure she is capable of it so my fear took over. But I will have to get out one way or another very soon,

What could be gained from filing?
Everything would be gained, it needs to be out there in the open. But I need to really be prepared for the war before this temporary truce ends.

What actions serves your mission to get your children the healing and support they need?
At the moment I am validating their feelings and show them how much I love them. Next step is to get them out of the control of stbx, at least for some of the time. Then get them therapy or someone to talk to, this is something the professionals will have to help me with.

At the moment I am just counting the minutes and breathe. Last night after everyone had gone to bed I sat for an hour just breathing looking out of the window. It was peaceful and calm. I can see the cycle starting up again, stbx has started to devalue us all slightly and is highly stressed. She will erupt in rage today or tomorrow, it is not a matter of if it is a matter of when. When that happens I need to be prepared. My solicitor is having 2 weeks off during Christmas, but has told me to contact her if anything goes bad and she will help from her side.

[hhaw]

I filed right at Christmas, EM.  It harmed  my ability to get protections, bc I didn't understand how the system works....dismissive egomaniacs representing me......scratching opposing counsel's back, unwilling to ask for TRO " bc it was Christmas." Thinking of their own comforts, not my children's safety.

It sounds like you have a better informed attorney advocate who understands your situation.

My advice is...... document all stbx threats....choose a moment to file based on the very worst, then GO. Lead with an undeniable truth everyone can understand.  As a fellow empath,  I wouldn't call the police until things were very dire, which means I failed to call them on the front end and paid a dear price.  Many dear prices.  Too dear.

I had this deeply held self inflicted "duty" to shield my small daughters, which, looking back......was an impossible mission I failed at over and over, but by degrees and always while fretting and roiling and suffering myself....things got darker and more complicated and confusing as I hesitated and hoped for peace.

What I learned is.....well....
I guess I can use the bandaid yank analogy here.  Had I just outed the ASPD N, up front, instead of protecting him ( while believing I did it for our children) I would have skipped over the first 8 months of legal circus with killer clowns running the show, imo.

I would have had more control, more say and more actual ability to protect the children and get them support to act as advocates in court as well ....but I couldn't see that far down the road.   

Your children aren't dumb.  They understand the terrible struggle , likely better than you know.  They will benefit from a frank explanation when things begin in the legal system.....age appropriate, of course.

They will benefit from the instruction to ignore the adult struggle while tending to their own business, imo.  Mum will be ok, even though she's making sad choices and including the kids in adult things...... she'll be ok just like they will.....and dad too. 

Whatever consequences your system has for dragging the kids in, alienating them and harming them with this type of domestic abuse ( witnessing abuse does as much harm to children) I suggest you press it, without hesitation and proactively rather than reactively.   You come from a position of strength the stbx will take, if you allow it.  Been there, done that.  It invites escalation which leads to much darker places than you live now, ime.  You'll wish you avoided that darker place if you don't.

So......exposing the PD's abuse, letting her feel the weight of her actions.....even if the children must witness THAT train wreck......police, child protective services, a big fight when you go.....
allowing that train wreck hopefully is the last big train wreck in front of your kids.  It's a fine goal, to be sure.  Intention is EVERYTHING.

The PD will be set straight by her attorney and possibly the jailer which will be the first time she understands you won't be bullied into compliance THIS time.

All she knows, for sure, is that you'll cave sooner or later, bc you always have.   It's just a matter of when........not IIF as far as she kknows.

Once you take matters out iof the dark, where she abuses at will while you cringe and suffer for and with your children......there can be consequences leading to protections and perhaps the PD getting real help to stop the abusive behaviors, ime.

So.....the bandaid.  I Yanked without the fear and hesitation.  It's better, ime.

My point is...... you're giving up your power to the stbx, bc she frightens you and makes it impossible to reason or cope with "more" than is on your plate.

I want you to know.... the "more" isn't worse than you're dealing wwith now.
It's not ideal or good or bad...... it's what leads to " better."
. That's all it is.  The path to feeling better.
Like taking off the bandaid so a wound can receive light and air.
 
Ahem....

You ARE stronger than you ttthink. Intention is to shield and protect children and self.  To begin the healing.....let the air and light in. 

Yes, the stbx will involve the girls and try to alienate them, but realize.....the worse she does, the easier it will be for a good crisis intervention Therapist to understand what ongoing harm your children are suffering.... so protection becomes more likely.
  Sometimes bad things lead to better outcomes, ime..  try not to jjudge.

There will be a chance for consequences of abuse.  There will be witnesses and advocates and court officers standing up for you ur children...standing up against the sstbx if you don't get in the way or draw negative attention to yourself.

You CAN do your ur best the SEE your situation and stbx through the filters of board members you trust, through your attorneys eyes.....and do what feels counter intuitive, based on your Nervous System and history.
  New choices are sscary. 
Not knowing what comes next is ppainful, ime. 

Pull the bandaid to get a leg up, for your children's sake.  There are domestic violence advocates and hotlines and Therapists specializing in helping children in crisis.  Find them.  Call them.  Make appointments and line them up within the framework of your exit strategy if you can.

Finding your center means you can keep the filters of calmer more experienced people in place when the stbx does what PDs DO.

SEE her wounded child self and BE the good enough parent..... dropping judgment of her....embracing all the protections available to you.

Right now your stbx is calling the shots, ruling your household and nervous system and those of your children.  Think if that.... An out if control toddler with zero ability to regulate her emotions is terrorizing you and ythe kids.

At that point you'll be driven to file divorce by eemotion
That's why making the best plan with professionals is so dire.  You step under their umbrella of reason and logic....are sheltered by it...standing in their light where the stbx can't lash out without exposing herself.

Use our filters and the best professionals you can find.  Put together cabinet members and rely on them instead of reacting in fear, without reason.

Allowing the stbx to have you and the girls in private, behind closed doors subjects you to ongoing interpersonal terrorism you have the power to limit or perhaps stop.

Don't hate your stbx.  She's a broken child doing what she's always done.  It's not personal...... it's terrible coping strategies from her childhood running amok in adult life and you have the power to rise above and mitigate the harm with compassion.

You aren't initiating war by filing.  You're doing the very best you can to limit the harm and get your wife help for her abusive behaviors.

WE see it so clearly.  Stop listening to the stbx and see her/ hear her through our filters....if you can.

Yes, there will be huge discomfort in filing.  Yes, you can sit with it and let it be....without judging it.  Get curious about what's behind it and pay attention to what comes up.

You can't DO this important inner work with the stbx sucking all the oxygen out of your lungs and Nervous System....listening to your children be pushed and pulled......children are very much harmed by kindness and cruelty delivered without rhyme or reason by an unstable parent.  Your girls require support and help understanding their mother is......our crisis therapist used the word "sick" to describe my ASPD's toxic behavior.  Children understand "sick" and it doesn't judge....it just speaks truth without confusion.

Once you've filed you can all learn how to cope with your stbx's dismal coping strategies, bc you will never control thwm.....only understand, create spaciousness around them and learn to shield your precious hearts and minds which will serve you for a lifetime.

Your girls can come out if this with wisdom and knowledge rather than brokeness and dysfunction as the only model for "normal" relationships, fily and parenting.

As I've written before, there's a limited window if opportunity to intervene, protect and teach/heal/provide education and bring understanding to forge your daughters' pain into knowledge and....
most importantly....
reinstall the wiring for your daughters' access to intuition and permission to honor themselves, put up appropriate boundaries and enforce them without feeling ashamed, guilty or bad, etc.

Right now you see the suffering you can't avoid, bc the stbx us UN your head and physical space.

Soon a good T will help you create space and the ability to calm yourself so you see the path to serenity and healing....the path to helping your girls learn to navigate their mother's " mental illness, sickness, unhealthy coping strategies." Get help naming it, bc it needs to be named, explained and overcome with knowledge and learned healthy strategies....... everything can change, EM.

Do not fear, but lean into the discomfort with curiosity and suspended judgment.  Resist judging....just pay attention to your inner world and sit with it....without acting, bc you've been lead by seeking/avoidance behaviors for so long.....you can't change anything by doing what you've always done.  Acting to avoid discomfort in the short term.

Your new plan will rrelieve your discomfort in the long-term.....create safe space for your girls too understand and process all the trauma and ongoing dysfunction of their broken parent while the one good endoughp arent models boundaries, healthy coping strategies and discipline they have the chance to learn and adopt for themselves.....but the window gets narrower, EM.

All the lanterns held up by those who've gone before you......please calm yourself and SEE the possibility.  The spaciousness for healing and processing, bc you can DO this.  It won't be perfect, forget perfect.

It will be the beginning of choice and teaching your children......you don't have to be hostages.  Create a new normal FOO model while you still can, EM.

TThis too shall pass.

[escapingman]

Hhaw, wow. That is alot of text. I don't have time to read it right now but will as soon as I can put my feet up for 15 minutes (if ever).

So far Christmas is going pretty much as expected and make my decision to end this clear. Yesterday she lost it about the cream fir the pudding, she asked us if we wanted pouring cream or whipped cream. Noone was that bothered so we all said we don't mind. She kicked off because she wanted whipped cream, that noone said no to. She had an argument with GC about it and when I tried to calm it and tell stbx to back down GC quickly turned on me to be in the same team as stbx. I can't live like this, neither can the kids.

[hhaw]

EM:

It's something to read in case you find yourself alone and in crisis over the holiday.  When you file, you file and it will be ok.

[escapingman]

Hhaw, thanks for your amazing text.

STBX has shown her colours, I knew she would but I feel kind of relieved as it proves me right. I am thinking about the plan now and what my aim is, obviously getting the kids safe is priority, but I have zero compassion for STBX now and I will not do anything rash. April is the date in my mind of filing at latest, I will get my T in a month or two hopefully so would start therapy before then. We are also entering separate sessions with out couples counsellor, not sure how much I can tell her and how much she already realised. I actually don't want to move out, I want the house and for the kids to stay with me in the house. This will be a challenge, but doable, if playing the cards right. SG has really sussed out STBX and she knows exactly what is going on. I am not sure with GC but I have a feeling she is seeing the light as well.

[DetachedAndEngaged]

I can't live like this, neither can the kids.

I've seen you write this many times, which indicates you can and are living like this and can continue, perhaps indefinitely.

Now you have put off your plan of filing until April, and don't have plans to move out.

Have you contemplated long and hard what you get out this arrangement as it is now? What about it fulfills some of your deep needs as much as it doesn't meet others?

I've been an observer of your threads far more than a participant, but I've been wondering for a while if this online community is enabling you to stay mired in the PD FOG more than the opposite.

I say this from a place of empathy and caring. I had to take an extremely hard look at myself and own up to my part in making continual decisions to endure PD abuse and instability before I decided to act decisively.

You may be much more comfortable with the existing situation that you realize. If you acted to extricate yourself from your marriage and stopped getting such a continual supply of sympathy here for your misery because the conditions of your life improved, would you be happy?

[square]

I don't know what you should do. But I think waiting for the no fault law and fighting for the house *could* be a rational plan.

[escapingman]

DetachedAndEngaged, thanks for you input but you are far far from the reality. Since I found this community, I have moved further and further Out of the FOG. I am certainly not here for sympathy, not at all, validation yes, and validation helps moving further out the FOG. Since I went to see a solicitor a few months ago, spoke to the doctors, the police, social services, therapist I have come so far. When I started all this, I had no idea what to do other than that I can't continue in the same way as I did. For every day I am moving slightly further away from my STBX, I actually feel revolted just by looking at her and hearing her voice. I have been completely isolated with her, especially during covid, I have been completely on my own and just to speak to someone about the situation has helped immense. I have spoken to a few friends, not told them any details as I just dont think they would understand. No, I don't feel comfortable living like this. Today I stayed in bed to lunch as I could not face getting out and spend time with her. Putting the filing off to April isn't me putting this off, it's just a matter of common sense. If I can file in January and risk having to be dragged through the courts, or wait until April and there is nothing she can do to stop it I think 3 months wait is a very little sacrifice to do. But, equally I am prepared to file in January and to try to get her our of the house. But, I don't think I am prepared to just go and leave everything to her. I am enough Out of the FOG to be able to cope with her misery for some time. During the 3 months I can stay away as much as possible (worktrips for work) and start proper healing with therapist(s) and lifestyle changes (training, massages, diet, quit alcohol etc). But I will always be aware of the need for pressing the panic button and file and possible get her out or me out the house. As many others have said, what actually happens cannot be decided by me as PD's are uncontrollable and I really dont know how she will react.

I am daydreaming about a life without her, and I really can say that I can't wait to start it. I cannot look at how she abuses the kids anymore, that can only stop by us being separated. But I need to get this right, not to panic and react emotionally, it has to be done as controlled as possible. I need to stay calm. She will not. She is losing it right now. She is panicking.

[escapingman]

I feel I like to respond further to DetachedAndEngageds message.

I have used this, and my other threads in this section to gain both feedback and validation as help and advice and also getting my thoughts down so I can go back and read them at a later stage. I could probably go on forever like this, or at least until I die a premature death. But for the sake of the kids I have to do something. I have planned this "escape" for years but it's not possible to plan when living in the drama. But for every twist, every time she manage to change my mind, every time I change my mind, I am getting one step further to the exit door. Reading lots of other stories as well I am somewhere very mindful in a way SoT describes to lose it all to a fighting PD. Fortunately I have no employees to think of, but I have worked really hard to be where we are financially and it hurts to risk it all. We were supposed to have a comfortable life from about now with no money worries, but this will all be thrown up in the air with a divorce, especially a divorce I might not have much control over. If I can control it as much as possible up front the better my chances are. What are another 3 months in the big picture if that means she can't fight me in court? But I am very aware and if it has to be done I will do it earlier. I am also very curious to what our couples therapist will say when I have a one on one with her.

But, I am sure you are aware how difficult it is to leave a PD? I know I need to, I know I want to, but still.......

[hhaw]

EM:

You're likely going to have a court battle with the stbx whether you want it or not.

Think about what stbx and her mother will feel about your request for the family home and custody of your  daughters.

What would that reality reflect back on stbx, as a mother, wife and "normal" person?  On her mother? 

My mind goes straight to offers the stbx would find more appealing than her standing in her community AND you taking her role as trusted primary caregiver and custodial parent.

You're still outing her, exposing her abuse, asking the court to support TAKING HER HOME and them's fight'n  words to a PD, ime. 

A no fault divorce means you don't have to prove anything in a divorce trial, but how does your attorney think child custody and sorting assets will go?

In the US we often settle custody or divide assets and still have to fight one or the other to get to the final divorce decree.  Very complicated and set up by attorneys for attorneys to make money. 

Maybe your attorney feels the divorce issue simplifies things by a third or half?
You're still going to be fighting the same battle, proving the same issues whether there's a no fault status change in divorce law or not, ime, bc if the custody issue.

And.....maybe you still hold out hope your wife will settle out of court to avoid the evidence against her coming out.

I have no confidence in that plan since you were told you don't have evidence to remove her from the home at this time......bc she's been more careful and not rushing to levels warranting her removal. Waiting meant you lacked evidence to DO that NOW.

That's a huge red flag, ime.  It means the window of opportunity has passed, bc you didn't act during the abuse rising to levels warranting her removal and prosecution, which is your best chance to maybe get her into counseling......maybe.

And now you have to explain why you kept the girls in this abusive situation so long after contacting the authorities.  When do you become an enabler in this?  I forget the word used in courts here, but I'm confused about what you gain by waiting till April to file. 

Are you trying to document the higher level of abuse?  Again?  To have something useful, bc that I understand.

If that's the case, we document through the police here.  Reporting immediately, filing charges and following through is how victims document and improve their chances of being heard and understood by the courts, ime. 

[Simon]

I think DetachedAndEngaged, like myself, was worried that you were getting caught up in the fog again.
It's happened to all of us to some degree.

Two months before I was discarded, I was all set to break off my relationship with my BPD ex three times in a week.
Each time at the start of my journey home, I had all the energy and motivation to make a clean break.
By the time I got home from a long commute each time, my energy and resolve seemed intact, but looking back, I think I was wishing I didn't have to break up with her (because of the "good times" in the beginning), and when I got home, half hour of her love-bombing me (because she seemed to sense it each time) and I was hooked once again.

And we've seen you do the same thing many times on these forums too.
It's good that you wrote it all down here, because you can read it again to yourself, and see it for yourself.

But I think the thing that made me think "uh oh" this time was the April date.
Is there a reason it's so far away?
I seem to remember that there might be some law that helps you if you wait til then, or was that someone else's thread?
If that is the case, then that's probably the plan to go with.

If it's not, then why April?
Without a good legal reason, that suggests she's wearing you down, or the fear is getting to you.
You already mention money.
If that has to be sorted, then I can understand why you're being careful, but if it doesn't require waiting til April, then maybe you need to ask yourself why you've chosen a date so far away.

Again, if April is a legal decision that will allow you to gain some advantage for the divorce, then that's the way to go.
Just trying to explain why, without knowing if that is the case, it seems like you are being pulled back in for more abuse.

Wanting out and getting out are two different things.
The other day. you mentioned hating (or resenting, can't remember) your wife because of the way things are.
I felt the same way about my ex.
I remember walking through a shop, walking behind her, looking at the back of her head and thinking to myself "God, I hate you!"
That's a horrible thing to think about someone, let alone someone that you're in a relationship with, but there I was, thinking it.
I've never hated anyone in my life before.
And despite that and all my plans to leave, I still couldn't.
She pushed just the right buttons, so that I thought it was my decision to stay.
And the only reason I got out was because she discarded me for someone else.
The sense of relief that day was enormous, which shows just how much I wanted out.
But they're very good at what they do.

And my relationship was a lot less complicated than yours; a lot less at stake.

I think we all know that whether you leave now or in four months, things are going to get bad, and she will go into narc rage overdrive, so getting everything ready for that, especially the money, the accommodation plans and the children are a must.
Just be sure that any push-back of dates is required rather than convenient.

We're all hoping for a good outcome for you.

[escapingman]

Simon and hhaw, thank you so much for your messages.

I start with the April date, here in the UK there is a no fault divorce law that comes into place (confirmed by my solicitor)  which means I can file for any reason I want and she can't stop it. Before then she can refuse to accept fault and then go into courts to see if a divorce will be granted or not. This before starting the discussions about assets and custody. If I can avoid one of three fights I do it in a hearth beat. She will never agree to a fault based divorce, as she is faultless (uNPD), so if I wait I avoid one battle. Battle 2, the assets is almost always a 50/50 split so that should be reasonable easy. Although she will feel entitled to all of the assets but I think it will be OK. I would like the family home, but it is not a deal breaker for me. I can setup a new home close by. The third battle, the kids..... this is the real battle and this is a complete unknown for me. I have no idea what she would try and want. This is the battle will need to put all my energy on, this is the important one. If she thinks I want custody, she will try to get full custody herself. If she thinks I want her to have custody, she will try to let me have them. It's gonna be a poker game and it will drain me.

Last point, I am not being dragged back into the FOG. I am struggling even looking at her.

[Simon]

Ah, that law was what I remember reading about, and it was on this forum somewhere.
For me, waiting makes perfect sense then.
As long as you can hold out that long, and you can protect the kids.
I appreciate how difficult that must be for you right now.

As for the kids during the divorce, that's where hhaw's advice will be invaluable.
They've been there, done that.

[escapingman]

It's going downhill, fast!

She kicked off and shouted at SG, then went in to the lounge and shouted at GC following this she came and expected me to back her up and ended up shouting at me as well. One hour later she wants to play family games and turned GC against me pretending all this is my fault. SG is now reluctantly playing games with them.

So short answer, I cannot wait until April. It has to be done now!

[Associate of Daniel]

EM, my apologies if you've already mentioned it, but what ages are your children?

My understanding is that the older children are the more the court is influenced by their desires regarding who they live with.

AOD

[escapingman]

Kids are 11 and 13. They are now laughing their heads off playing games with STBX, this is an hour after both where crying for being shouted at by her.

[square]

My H has described the feeling of relief and hope when his father would stop raging and start hoovering his family back in.

[escapingman]

I am so angry right now, it's definitely the Amygdala talking and telling me to fight. I am sitting in my office shaking of anger, if I was a PD I would have gone in and ripped her head off. But I am not. Trying to calm myself down, counting the minutes, doing anything to not enter the room where they are. All I want is to drag her out the house by her neck, but I know that is not wise. This is desperate stuff now, I haven't felt like this for a long time, clearly she thinks she is fine going back to her old ways. More fool her. I HATE HER!

[JustKeepTrying]

escapingman

You obviously can't wait until April.  And I am unclear why April even when you mentioned it earlier - I can not understand any law where they would make one wait to file - no fault or not.  There are always options and if your lawyer isn't clear, find another stat.

As for the kids, they are old enough that the courts will take their opinion into account.  Your evidence is where it will be helpful so document NOW.  If pushed on why you waited to file in regard to potentially putting your children, you can point to your joint therapy as an attempt to keep your family together.  Also arrange NOW for therapy for your children.  Get them appointments TOMORROW and that will reflect positively on you.

Finally, and please please please take this to heart, give up on the house and money and things, just go.  Take the kids with you and go.  Don't escape for a few days by yourself because it is escalating and the cycles are getting shorter ime.  She can read you and that explains the shorter cycles.  She knows she can't manipulate any longer so just get out while you are all safe.

This is the dangerous time.  For both of you.  Please please please go now.