Leaving the guilt behind and moving on

[escapingman]

The cycle is never ending, it's sometime slow and sometimes fast. But I think I have figured it out as much as I can, if I manage MC and GR successfully the cycle is slowed down, but not stopped as this is impossible. When I MC and GR uNPDw (STBX) is doing anything she can to drag me back in, she pretends all is normal, love bomb me, invites me to join her for meals and watching TV together. I always feel bad turning her invites down, but I have to. The cycle goes that as soon as I accept an invite, either because I just want to watch TV, or want to eat at the same time as her, it does not take long before she turns on me. It really is like she is a polar opposite to me, if I am nice to her, she is mean to me, if I am ignoring her, she is nice to me. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE for both of us to be on the nice side at the same time. I find it astonishing that she can spend a week begging me to engage with her, and if I do she immediately turns on me. Last month or so since we got this couples therapist, and I have been successfully executed MC and GR, she has used these sessions to get all her emotions and rage out. Over Christmas, I had to engage for the sake of the kids, it of course ended up in several rage attacks on me (and the kids), then closer to the new year she wanted me around again and I did MC and GR until the next therapy session. At this one she let it all out. Only a few minutes in she started to blame me, gas light me, victimize herself, insinuating her life wasn't worth living and so on. To me, it is obvious she will use any therapy session to get her supply and to try to turn the therapist on to her side and get me to fall in line. That won't happen again. I am not getting into the cycle again, it ends her. We are having our separate sessions with the therapist next week, I will first see what the T has to say, then I have to state my intentions. Unless the T is blind, she must have seen what's going on. STBX has not been very good at disguising her rage and blaming me.

With all above, I am speaking to my solicitor again next week. I need to make up a plan with her. I need to leave the guilt behind and declare a truth war (to use SOT's words). I am no longer planning to move out, I am to scared of how the kids will be treated. I need her removed, one way or another. Until this can happen, I need to be home protecting the kids, avoiding all baiting from her (and GC on STBX behalf). It's very difficult to declare war when STBX is nice to me, but it only take me being nice back for her to switch. Maybe I should just do that, and have the recordings on, it won't take long.

To assist with this, I also started to look after myself and started a diet, stopped drinking and regularly going to the gym. The best chances I have is if I am at my best. No more hiding away from her with comfort eating or drinking, that just prolongs it all.

I have said it so many times before, but wish me luck. This is taking time, but I am getting more and more clarity and getting further and further Out of the FOG. I am sorry for keep posting new threads but at the moment you all are my best support. Thank you.

[Starboard Song]

To assist with this, I also started to look after myself and started a diet, stopped drinking and regularly going to the gym. The best chances I have is if I am at my best. No more hiding away from her with comfort eating or drinking, that just prolongs it all.

This is so important. Live for the future, and it will make the present clearer.

I think you are doing a lot of good for yourself right now. And it is ok if it takes time. You have a process you are trying to respect, and multiple goals you are trying to balance. That's all actually hard.

Be good. Be strong.

[SonofThunder]

To assist with this, I also started to look after myself and started a diet, stopped drinking and regularly going to the gym. The best chances I have is if I am at my best. No more hiding away from her with comfort eating or drinking, that just prolongs it all.

This is so important. Live for the future, and it will make the present clearer.

I think you are doing a lot of good for yourself right now. And it is ok if it takes time. You have a process you are trying to respect, and multiple goals you are trying to balance. That's all actually hard.

Be good. Be strong.

[escapingman]

This is so important. Live for the future, and it will make the present clearer.

I think you are doing a lot of good for yourself right now. And it is ok if it takes time. You have a process you are trying to respect, and multiple goals you are trying to balance. That's all actually hard.

Be good. Be strong.

Thanks Starboard. The more I learn and notice from my uNPDw's behaviour the more I realise it has nothing to do with me and the less I take notice of her rages and rants. If it was just us and not the kids I could probably completely switch off and let it take whatever time it takes. As the kids are affected, I don't have that luxury, but I need to get it right for everyone so therefor it is taking more time than I wanted it to take. I have been dragged back in at times, but less and less lately. I have dropped the idea I just need out, I need the kids Out of the FOG. That is more important than anything else, and as long as I can handle it I will stay to avoid the kids to me on their own with her as much as possible. I really have realised it is a mental illness, it is sad to look at her as she rapidly switch from a victimised person crying for love and attention to a raging animal that has no care for anyone but themselves. Its hearth breaking.

[JustKeepTrying]

 

escapingman - glad to hear you are making plans and putting the children first.  I am sending you hope and look foward to hear about your progress.

Just a side note, when the papers were served and when I sat in court and the judge declared us divorced, it was a real blow.  Like a gut punch.  But don't let those emotional moments get you.  Look back on your posts and watch your video'd evidence and remember the why.  You got this.

[escapingman]

EM,
I read this today in the Learned Helplessness article in the Toolbox, and I thought it might be helpful to you. It really spoke to me anew, despite reading it before...

That is a very good article, thanks for sharing. That is definitely me, I always think I have to convince her we need to split and that I am not allowed if she doesn't agree. I don't, I just need to convince myself I can leave and it is up to her how she handles it - not me.

[Poison Ivy]

 

[escapingman]

Reading a bit more in the toolbox section now I am further out the FOG really makes some stuff I didn't pay attention to before hit home. This learned help ness is really one of them, it is so true and can explain why I have stayed for so long. I think I am still waiting for someone to come and save me and do all this for me, or that I will find the strength next week/month etc. It's not gonna happen, I need to find the strength from within. I suppose what makes us the wonderful caring people we are, is just that we are so caring to others and don't want to upset anyone else. We had some bad news, one of STBX's close relatives just died, and I decided I will have to wait until after the funeral before proceeding with filing. It will set me back some time, but I want to believe I am a decent human being and not want to trigger unnecessary. From a selfish point, I don't want to give her the opportunity to go to her entire narc-filled family and smear me and tell them all what an awful human being I am. That side of her family are filthy rich and could easy fund her with money and resources if they decided they wanted to back her, that's a risk I always been aware of.

I spoke to my solicitor yesterday and I know the scores now, and we both agreed to wait a bit and also for me to try to talk to our couples therapist to see if she is of any use to try to manage STBX and soften the blow. Anyway, solicitor is ready to file as soon as I say go, it will literally take a few minutes for her as all she needs to do is to fill in a form online. I just need to be prepared for the fall out when the papers are served.

Sometimes it really sucks to be a nice guy.

[PlantFlowersNotWeeds]

I understand the essence of timing and showing compassion.

I've read some of your posts - haven't you shown enough compassion already?  There will always be a reason in the nar's life why it isn't a good time.  The stuff they can come up with, it's amazing, right?  The health complaints my STBX reports on a daily basis is almost funny.  At one point last year, he convinced me that he was going to have open heart surgery and he might die. I believed him for a few minutes - a few minutes too long. 

Today, he's complaining about his stomach, fever, soar throat....yet he's smoking non stop.  Oh well.  (he had a covid test yesterday, all good there).

It's sad to say, but if someone in my STBX's life died, it wouldn't be about their death or the impact on their family, it would be about HIM.  How it effects him...how he can look like superman by helping somehow...how it impacts his health....I can visualize it all right now.  And, living with someone like this can steal away your own natural emotions.

I'm not waiting on my STBX for anything now.  I've spent 20 years putting him first. 

Again, based on your past posts, your wife is going to have a significant reaction to the divorce - regardless of how it's presented or when.  As I write this, I am correctly myself.  You just can't predict their behavior.  So, with this lack of prediction, does it really matter how or when you proceed? 

These are my opinions only - we all struggle so differently and the same, right?

Be safe and well

[escapingman]

PFNW: Thanks for your input, but this is probably more of self preservation than kindness even though I want to see at is me being kind. She hates this person, it was someone STBX only met at funerals and weddings. She hasn't shed one tear and I doubt she will, other than on the funeral of course. But, I really don't want to give her the ammunition to victimise herself in front of all of her relatives that potentially could make my life a nightmare. I have made my decision to divorce, I know it's going to be hell, but I need to not make it harder than it need to be. Also, every time I get close to actually file I get scared shitless about what is to come. This is particularly true when she has behaved reasonable OK, I know it's still not great but not as bad as it could be. The real problem is that every time she has really overstepped it and I decide I will file now, it has taken to much time before I have been able to actually get to the point of actually filing that she has managed to be god enough for me to hesitate. Maybe I need a therapist on my side to actually pull the trigger, or maybe I be OK now after the holiday period with my solicitor on stand by to file as soon as I say so.

I just feel so weak for not being able to do just go ahead and do this. I really fit in perfect in the description for someone suffering from learned helplessness.

[square]

I think it can be a sensible plan to have all your ducks in a row and pull the trigger when you are in that state, a state you've been in plenty of times before and will be in again.

The key is having your ducks in a row. You say your solicitor can file in minutes of your sayso. Great. What else? Where do you physically go at that point? If you plan to stay in the house, how exactly will that work? I would discourage you from living with her, it seems like an untenable situation and likely to be explosive.

If you will leave, even just for the day, decide now where you will go and what you need to bring now, so you don't need to make these decisions when you are in no fit state. Make a checklist on your phone, perhaps. Assume anything you leave will be destroyed.

If you must stay, and I do have my concerns, can you have a lock and all necessary tools to install it on your door quickly? And you need earplugs. Noise cancelling headphones are good too but not ideal for sleep or when you are trying to focus on work. Earplugs don't block it all out but they'll muffle the drama, and you can put headphones over them. If you stay and lock the door you must be totally prepared for a horrific campaign of banging, shouting, and further infantile ridiculousness, and you must not rise to the bait, even at 3am. Again, it seems untenable.

Anyway, making such plans does not commit you to executing them. You do not have to be ready or sure to get plans set up. Then when you can't take another single second, it'll all be right there waiting for you.

[JustKeepTrying]

 

[PlantFlowersNotWeeds]

This process is incredibly difficult and very scary.  It may not seem like you are moving forward, but you really are.  With each day, you are getting more in tune with who you are and where you want to be.

[hhaw]

EM:

Do you have a good relationship with your stbx's family?  Either way, expect your stbx to play victim, tell lies and do what she can to start a war wasting all family resources and destroying your integrity and standing in the family.

I'm wondering if you have a decent relationship with someone reasonable in the stbx's family you can rely on to help you get your message through and stay on task.

You aren't trying to smear the PD and war with her..... you're trying to get help for her and STOP the destructive force of her PD in your shared home. 

Unfortunately, relaying the truth can make you look like you're attacking and smearing your stbx. 

Think about possibly mitigating the story your stbx will tell.....maybe her family can focus on her mental health, rather than bankrolling the stbx's desire to punish and destroy you? 

I'm not telling you to do anything.  Only suggesting possibilities.  Maybe you'll be talking to a very reasonable member of her family at the funeral or another gathering....and that person asks how things are going?  And wants the truth?  Knows enough about the stbx to GET the truth and accept it.....do what they can to help rather than make war.

I can tell you, things might end up in war no matter what you do.  I reached out to my In Laws for help and they called me a liar then did everything they could to destroy me.....crazy stories but my ASPD stbx came from disordered people......lots of money, but controlled by the PDs so the more normal, dependent members fell in line and carried the family narrative, even though they knew better. 

Maybe there's just acceptance around what comes next, EM.  Maybe you do what you can, then stop worrying......work on your coping strategies and practice using them.

Expect your stbx to go nuts.  Accept that and drop all hope this will be a peaceful process.  Identifying the stbx as disordered, proving she's threatening suicide and having her taken in for evaluation in hospital....could shorten up the process AND get her help...help everyone get help.  Are you considering that option?

Hopefully whatever happens works to  your advantage in SHOWING everyone the truth so family resources go toward  healing and ongoing rather than extended court battles draining everything and everyone.

I hope you've met with the baddest and biggest Divorce attorneys in your area to prevent your stbx hiring them.  Just a short phone consult will do.

Hang in there.  Keep documenting.  Remember to breathe.

[JustKeepTrying]

When the papers were served to my xOCPDh, I did it with a process server and on a Friday.  I stayed with a friend and hid the car in her garage.  I took my son with me.  I picked him up from school and explained the situation and offered that if he wanted to stay with Dad I would drop him off or he could think about it over the weekend.  I did not hid anything from but stayed level, calm and labeled the mental illness for what it was.

This way I was not present and could not be attacked or yelled at or whatever.  I was safe.  I did not see him for a month.  All communication was through the lawyer.  After I was notified the papers were delivered, I did text him that DD was with me and safe.  My lawyer said it was not kidnapping since we were both biological parents with full custody of the children and there were no court orders to the contrary.

Talk it the process through with your lawyer and understand all the aspects of it.  Yes, it's an electronic filing but like said earlier, think it through.

As for filing now versus later.  It will never get better or easier.  There will always be a bad time to file.  Always a reason to wait.  And your ex will twist it to your advantage.  Granted, perhaps not right before a funeral but waiting too long isn't ideal either.

I hope you are still putting your ducks in a row - papers, inventory, finding a place even temporary, etc.  Good luck

[JustKeepTrying]

He didn't try to reach me at first.  When he did I said all communication should go through the lawyers.  And it was via text.  He complained and said that we could do it on our own and negotiate the divorce ourselves.  I had researched that and thought about it - I honestly thought maybe I could and he wouldn't cheat me.  Thankfully I wised up and insisted we communicate through our lawyers.  And if there was something to say about our son or the house, then via email. (I am glad I did because I discovered a lot of hidden money)

It was touch and go for the past two years and there were several times we were face to face.  It was really hard.  But there wasn't a legal requirement here that would hold to lawyers only.  But it did help initially when I insisted and he didn't really know I couldn't enforce it.  Does that make sense?  Hope it helps.

As for text barrage, I think there is some way now with some phones that you can silence people but not block them?  I think it came out with the newest apple update. Something called focus?   I gotta get my kids to help me haha

[escapingman]

EM:

Do you have a good relationship with your stbx's family?  Either way, expect your stbx to play victim, tell lies and do what she can to start a war wasting all family resources and destroying your integrity and standing in the family.

I'm wondering if you have a decent relationship with someone reasonable in the stbx's family you can rely on to help you get your message through and stay on task.

No, I have already been smeared and blamed for her fall out with her mum. Her sister doesn't speak to me other than when forced to, her mum just the polite chat when seeing each other. The extended family she will see, I have barely been introduced to so only seen them a couple of times. I am not even invited to the funeral, it's apparently an adults only so I need to stay at home with the kids. As I don't think she will see the extended family again for a long time I really don't want to give her the opportunity to get any support she normally wouldn't get. I am just going to try to cope until the funeral has been and then see what to do, but plan and be ready for then. But, being in the house with STBX is mentally wearing me down. She is constantly demanding my attention, it is exhausting to keep holding the boundaries. Ideally I need to get away for a few days and recharge and plan properly, it's hard when constantly under pressure.

Thanks everyone for your support.

[escapingman]

Surprise surprise, the funeral is now all about STBX. I can't go into details but I feel sick in my stomach about how she behaves. She must think she has me back where she think I should be as she has treated me like a dog all day. I had a trip booked for the day the funeral now is on, she didn't even tell me this relative had died and then just told me I am not allowed to leave the house on this day. I then found out it a matter of about 2 hours I need to actually be at home looking after our kids. Thought it is a bit silly to cancel an entire trip for 2 hours so said I will look into asking some friends if any of them could have the girls until she was back. That was OK for her yesterday, but today it's not OK anymore and if I find someone then I am expected to join her to the funeral (I was never invited in the first place and not even told when the relative died). She is now playing the victim card that she will not go to the funeral as she needs to stay at home and then telling me how horrible I am. I just have had enough of her drama and story changes, she is now uses this death to punish me and at the same time turn it around telling me I am the one disrespecting her relative. I have no issue cancelling any trips for a funeral, but to be told as a direct order what I can and can't do and not even be told about the death or invited to the funeral stinks.

Sorry for a bit of a rant but I think she just put me back in the right mindset to just get this thing rolling again.

[escapingman]

I really needed this latest crazy making to get myself back in the frame. With some time to digest this is just her typical behaviour with everything. She finds a problem, I find a solution, she finds a problem with the solution, I find another solution but she rejects the solution as she doesn't want to have a solution to the problem. I think I am back to reality understanding I need out as it will be impossible to be in the same house after filing. So time to get all ducks in a row, plan for filing in 2 weeks and then get the hell out. Easy. 

[hhaw]

I'm so glad you seem to be making peace with acceptance, EM.

The PD conundrum is what it is. Always. 

Your stbx will never stop creating double binds.  You'll always be damned if you do and damned if you don't and there's no good reason for it.

It will never make sense.

You can only control your choices and thoughts.

You will never get out of the double bind with stbx BUT you can limit it....for yourself and your children.

Acceptance opens up space for creativity and creation, ime. 

Emotional and physical distance provides spaciousness required to model healthy boundaries, coping strategies and consequences.

Shifting focus away from your stbx, her chaos manufacture and making sense of it allows you to think about what you want to experience.  It's also a out building something new in your childrens' hearts and nervous systems, ime.
Accepting it IS what it is, without trying to change it.....means you CAN focus on building new habits, brain pathways and family systems with your girls, ime.

You'll help them widen their windows of tolerance as you learn and widen your own, ime and there's still time to teach.

So ya.... acceptance.

The Buddhists have a saying...
The sky is blue.  The grass is green. 

Your stbx is disordered and that's as clear as the color of the sky and grass.

It's ok to let it be what it is while focusing on what you can do.

I find there's so much energy for positive growth when I accept the PD truth, shift focus to the joy in my present moments and let it all be.

When your stbx does what PDs DO.....you have the choice to accept it and let it be, instead of allowing her chaos to take and keep your focus, ime.

It gets easier with practice and distance from the PD.  Remember this and keep reminding yourself you have choices.

Stay curious.  Be super kind to yourself.  Try to drop judgment, do what you can and grab all the joy you can.

It might be necessary to spend one on one time with your girls.....for different reasons, but it's going to be ok, EM.

Breathe and know it's going to be ok.