Is there any way to tell a covertNw that I am not responsible for her feelings?

[zenagain]

We were not home when the covertNw came home from work (we were out shopping for both son's project and a list she had provided me, and she got home a ton earlier than usual).   We we arrived home, surprised she was there... .but I could tell she was fuming mad at me.    When I confronted her about it, she didn't let on and just expressed 'frustration' with little to no words and statements like, "If you think about it, you would KNOW", etc.   But then sent me 3 txt and 2 (both very long) emails over the course of this weekend as to how rude it was for me not to tell her we were not home and how I need to apologize to her for being rude (and is continuing a full on silent treatment, etc, and non-verbal responses to anything I say).

So, this happens often, but I have stopped apologizing a while ago - I will after thought if I did something, like yell at her or mock her in the heat of a moment or some sort of confrontation she caused, but I often feel her demanding me to say, 'sorry', is her way of saying she is correct in demanding it - that her manipulation or feelings of low self confidence and because of me, validated by my saying sorry (that sounds a bit twisted, but it seems to ring true from the many years I have been with her).

So - again this weekend,  I am refusing to apologize or acknowledge the txts or e-mails for the following reasons:
a.  I didn't intentionally leave the house before she got home with my son so that she would be upset or to hurt her - we had no clue she'd be home that early
b.  She admitted in one of the emails/txts that she sat for an hour at home with no one there and in the dark (dog was home and she walked it, but she wants to make a point) - she didn't ask us where we might be through a txt or call or enjoy the silence of the home or whatever
and
c.   I am not responsible for her feelings of abandonment or loneliness!  I didn't cause her to feel that way (Right?   Tell me the truth - I didn't intent to cause her to feel that nor did I manipulate a situation or her for this to happen (no intention), but it seems what I did (unintentionally) did hurt her??   Ughhh.. I get confused here after so much emotional abuse.   

I am not sure how to communicate that to her though????  Any time I have said this in the past, she says things like, " - you did! - your actions caused me hurt... I am hurt... soo hurt... you need to apologize because you hurt me!"  "You need to show your son that you can't cause hurt like that ... " (etc, etc)

Open to thoughts, tips and even criticism and telling me that I have it all wrong...
Thanks All!! 

[PlantFlowersNotWeeds]

I don't have any great words of wisdom here, but I don't think you were wrong.  And, you are not responsible for her feelings.  She choose to be upset for that long and that intense.  It's a real challenge to find solid ground in these situations when you've been in emotional upheaval for so long - you doubt yourself, forget what gives you joy, and you forget that these situations are not typical!

[guitarman]

You aren't a mind reader. She is projecting all her frustrations, anger and upset onto you as she can't cope with her own feelings. She has to have someone else to blame for causing them.

This is all gaslighting where you get convinced that you've done something wrong or are made to believe that your reality isn't real to make you believe that you are going insane.

Abusers are all about power and control.

Observe don't absorb. Stay calm. Don't feed the narcissistic supply by staying calm and not reacting. Don't get baited into arguments started to provoke you into anger.

Use "I..." statements more than "You..." statements. Calmly talk about your feelings more. Your feelings matter. You matter.

You can't change anyone else's behaviour you can only change and control your own. Knowing that really liberated me.

Use Medium Chill and Grey Rock techniques to not get caught up on the emotional roller coaster.

Practising Mindfulness meditations regularly helps me to remain calm and to let things go and let things be.

[escapingman]

No, you can't tell her. But you need to just ignore her and MC her until she realise it isn't working anymore. My (covert) uNPDw used to do exactly what you describe, her worst episode lasted about 2 weeks and she ended up writing me a letter telling me I had put a pole through her hearth and twisted it. She revealed the reason for this was that I had been having fun with the kids (without her).

Unfortunately now when she can't use this trick on me, she does it to the kids. It's killing me from inside to see it, but I try my best to explain to the kids that it's not them. But it's not easy.

Good luck.

[losingmyself]

You did nothing wrong. And I hope you had a good time out shopping!
I like to use facts:
"What time do you normally get home?" and "What time did you get home that day?"
"Oh, I must have missed your message telling me you were going to be home early"
"What??? You didn't tell me??" "And I would have known this how, then??"
"So, I couldn't have known you  were going to be home early."
"Interesting..."
"So, we're done talking about this, and I'm not going to talk about it anymore"
When she brings it up, state that you've already talked about this, and you're done with this conversation. Then walk away if she persists.
I have noticed that the conversation usually ends much before we get very far into it, because I'm going to ruin it by using stupid facts......she might have a couple fits, but that's her problem, not yours.
Do not apologize!! Stay strong and hold your boundary. You talked about it and the issue is settled.

[Bunnyme1]

I will echo user.  There is nothing you can say that will convince her.  I've gotten into countless arguments where he denied, lied, and then, even faced with written proof, would continue to gaslight and twist things to make it not his fault.  I must have misunderstood...or he must have misunderstood...  it is truly mind boggling and sad how delusional they can become. 

I ignore most things now.  As a matter of courtesy (and for proof in court records that im not being hostile, if need be), I generally respond one time to things concerning the children.  Something like, "I realize that we were not home when you got there.  We did not expect you home at that time."  No need to apologize (hard for me...I apologize to furniture i bump into sometimes because it is so automatic).  No need to further justify.  In cases where it gets brought up multiple times, I ignore after the first time I've answered.  I used to get into a "as I stated...," but that just opened the door to continuing the conversation.  Those are just my experiences, so you may have a different relationship, but know you aren't alone.

[hhaw]

zen:


It's more productive to accept you're not wrong and know you'll never be understood by the PD, no matter how well you state the facts.

As long as you understand and believe you're right....
As long as you don't need the PD to agree with and understand you....
that's the important part, ime.

Your PD will always blame and finger point.... there's nothing you can do to fix that.  You can only heal yourself and embrace acceptance in all things.

Your PD will always use your kindness and truth against you....twist it to make you feel crazy.


It's better to accept their brokeness, know they'd do better if they could.  They can't, bc they're broken.

[Sheppane]

c.   I am not responsible for her feelings of abandonment or loneliness!  I didn't cause her to feel that way (Right?   Tell me the truth - I didn't intent to cause her to feel that nor did I manipulate a situation or her for this to happen (no intention), but it seems what I did (unintentionally) did hurt her??   Ughhh.. I get confused here after so much emotional abuse.   
[/quote]

hi zenagain. I'll join in with others here and can relate to this.

I think the above hits it home - you are NOT responsible for the feelings of another adult. We are all responsible for our own feelings and how we manage them. This particular style of being manipulated into feeling responsible for the feelings of others is a slippery slope. As others have said it sounds like a lot of projection. 

So ime yes you are right. You are NOT responsible for how she feels. That is on her. You are responsible for your behaviour only. Period.

I get the confusion and mind twist that comes with " well maybe you didn't intend to X/y/z but this is how I FEEL". Because still, there's a finger pointing at you there.

I have often had that type of response. And it is very difficult because it makes me ponder " oh OK yes I didn't mean to / intend to make whoever FEEL like that but now they are telling me that is how they feel ...so ummmm.....maybe it is my fault / responsibility then ???"  They feel this way = I caused it. I then start spinning in self doubt. Wondering is it my " fault".

But of course that's not true. Feelings are not facts. That applies to others feelings also. Just because she feels a certain way about your behaviour doesn't make it true.

The other problem there is there is no end to how another person may feel. I have got stuck in conversations where I explain my intent / the fact that having reflected I do not feel I have done wrong but it turns into " but that's how I FEEL".

It's why sticking to the facts is useful. What did I do / say. What was my intent. If I am happy I have not wilfully caused harm , fine. If on reflection I feel it is possible there is a misunderstanding/ miscommunication despite my clear motives then in a healthy relationship that usually gets resolved easily. If I feel I have harmed I apologise.

I find in these relationships the " unintentional hurt/ harm " is the tricky one. Because then I can end up apologising for everything.  I didn't mean to hurt you- I don't think there is anything hurtful in what I did - that all goes in a circular conversation  where the PD/ covert  can cry " you didn't intend to but its how i feel " ( meaning you didn't intend to - this is how I feel now - therefore it's a) your fault and b) your responsibility to fix ). I have had a lot of " Im sorry if you feel hurt  by what I said / didn't say / how I said it" over the years ......It's  very tricky one in these dynamics imv. Eggshells. And hard to know sometimes truthfully if I do need to apologise?

Just because it's how someone feels still doesn't make it your fault or responsibility 

You are looking for the right words to communicate this. I have found that difficult on this journey. I wanted a " script ", some combination of words that would seem to be able to communicate in a way that would be received. I have looked at NVC and many other resources. Other than using " I" statements I have found that there is no script / way to communicate that " works ". It was part of my healing to let that go. You can only speak honestly, truthfully, respectfully. How someone else chooses to hear it is out of your control too.

Stay strong . I look forward to seeing what others feel. I'll bet its a common pattern.

[JustKeepTrying]

   To all of the above posts.

First, her reaction with texts and emails over the course of a weekend demanding an apology because she came home early and you were shopping for your child and her list - is way over the top.  Way over.  Like way way over.  So stop fretting over it.  It's not normal.

Second, you are not responsible for her reaction.  She is not responsible for yours.  You are only responsible for you.  This is a tough a lesson and I work on it every day.

Third,  should you apologize?  Should you MC/GR?  Feed her need for?  There were great responses give for this and some good phrases that I would write down and keep for later - but also consider using "Your feelings are valid."  I have said that to a person trying to get me to snap and just calmly looked at them directly and stated it.  Even with my xOCPDh.  and it most of the time it stopped the behavior.  I would then move the conversation onto another topic and try to move them on. 

Last - it's not about your tardiness.  This is about control and manipulation and using this as an opportunity to create an eggshell environment.  Keep you attentive and feeding their need.