Mother triangulating with MIL

[Hilltop]

I recently realised my mother hadn't contacted me even by text since November.  She responded to my holiday text but she herself hadn't reached out.  This is new for her.  I knew she had been in contact with my MIL but didn't think much of it.

I just found out my MIL is giving my mother all the information about what I am up to, with my job and life.  My MIL gets this information from DH. My MIL has PD tendencies so this triangulating and gossip is fun for her.  I knew a little bit of information had passed between them but now it looks like my mother has discarded me and is just getting information off MIL. My mother knows of all the problems my MIL caused me in my marriage so this feels like a massive betrayal.

I just feel so angry.  My mother isn't even bothering to contact me but still obviously wants to have the information so she doesn't look bad and for her own gossip.  DH said something that made me think a smear campaign had already been done.  MIL would then be using this to gossip with all her friends.  DH had said the information is no big deal and it's weird to not say what's happening in our life.  He is very open with his parents and doesn't see his mother's PD tendencies.

So I cannot stop this.  I can't change it.  I feel like my mother is invading into my life which almost feels like a violation considering she doesn't appear to actually want a relationship with me. 

I don't trust my MIL. I feel she will take photos and pass them on.  I have new feelings about my mother which border on repulsion at her.  I know there is nothing I can do and I will have to accept this but I went from feeling safe to now feeling like I can't even trust my husband.  DH says they are who they are and I just have to accept them for who they are.  He thinks it will get better in time.  He will not limit information. 

Anyone dealt with this?  I just feel like my parents don't care about me they just need that info on me so they can continue their bad mouthing me and mocking me. 

Just wanted to add in the past my mother has withheld information from me about family.  Now she is making sure she gets the information she wants.  It shouldn't bother be but I'm pretty much at the point of thinking about NC. Not once has she mentioned our non existent relationship to me, there in no concern over that,  the only thing that appears to matter to her is information for gossip. 

[Liketheducks]

That really sounds like she's invading your space.   But, you have no control over what MIL or Mom does.   My DH had NO idea what I was dealing with, until he experienced it himself.  He had his own dysfunctional parents, but couldn't fathom the depths to which my folks would stoop.   
Hang in there.   Maybe have some conversations with him about what you're going through?   Give them pretty, but high level, pictures to look at.   
So sorry you're dealing with this.

[moglow]

They are who they are and we can't change that, yes. Will it "get better with time"? Depends on your definition of gets better, I would think. *I* don't believe that pipedream for a moment. As we age, a lot of us will have a wide variety of failings and limitations, and I don't imagine that I'll handle certain limitations very well myself. Mommie dearest? [schnort] She still thinks she's the cutest trick in shoe leather and can charm every man she meets. She's made playing the victim her life's work, and she's good at it. It just happens to work better with men than women.

I can also vouch for people who don't really see or believe it until it happens to them. No matter what she dished out and what it did to me, my brothers passed it off, shrugged and "what can you do?", that kind of thing.They did have a point - it couldn't hurt me unless I let it, but they forgot that's how we were raised. To not speak up or "talk back" to her. We were supposed to stand there and take it, no matter what she did or how long it took. That was the status quo until she turned it on them, one by one. They didn't realize that she'd never changed, that she was still vicious, gossiping, spiteful, with no remorse whatsoever. She was still a bully, only older and more practiced now.

I've had a hard time accepting that it's not personal with her. She does it with any and everyone in her life and always has. I believe I was more vulnerable because that's what I was taught. I was beat down, minimized, ignored and would still do anything for those few bright spots that appeared every once in a while. I'd do anything it took to keep her in that place and keep the monster at bay.

Hilltop, unfortunately you can't change your husband either. You *can* limit your personal exposure to those women and fine tune your responses should they try and throw things in your face. It's not easy and it'll still sting, but after a while you see it for what it is: petty mindless bullies who can't change YOU. Find ways to turn her/their voices off in your head. Take on the good, the kind, the compassionate, and make them your people instead.

[Hilltop]

Invading my space, yep that is how I feel.  Thank you both for your support. Moglow I do struggle with the realising that it's not personal with her.  I do limit my exposure and do very grey rock with my MIL. It has been going really well. Until now.

When my mother is upset she has done a smear campaign in the past.  Up until now she has had very limited access into my life.  So it didn't really do anything but smear me with the FOO and my mother's friend's. It hurt but otherwise didn't affect me.  No good is going to come from this.  It bothers me that my personal business with my family is now gossip for MIL. I can't change that though.

I plan to stay far away from it.  I don't discuss my parents with my in-laws and vice versa.

I think out of everything though it is seeing my mothers actions with no FOG. Just watching to see how she handles our dwindling relationship. Seeing what is important to her and being horrified by that. I think I am seeing our relationship for what it actually is.  It just surprises me how little there is.   I don't plan on reaching out to my mother any time in the near future. 

I just wish she would go away and leave me alone. 

[SunnyMeadow]

What a nightmare. It's so underhanded, sneaky and Gross! I don't like my personal business being discussed either. To have my mother and MIL talking about me and comparing notes.....    I sure hope your dh stops giving his mother any info about you!

I just wish she would go away and leave me alone

I'm with you on this. I think this every single day.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Hilltop, I feel for you! It is underhanded and gross.

How are you feeling about your DH's role in this triangulation? I'm honestly surprised at how matter of fact you are in saying that he will not stop limiting information. You can stop caring about how your mother and MIL are going to use the information to tear you down, and there is grief to get to that, of course, but it's not quite the same as one's own spouse. And saying it will get better with time, while he continues to feed the beast, knowing those two spiteful women are going to talk smack about the love of his life, is a pretty jaw-dropping example of denial in my opinion.

This was a big deal for me in my marriage when I went NC with the in-laws. We went to counseling together to hammer out the boundaries: MIL got nothing about me or the kids as long as I felt sure it would only be used to hurt me. DH said similar things, that it was weird not to tell them about our life. True.But it's even more outrageous that they would want to use that information to hurt me, isn't it? If that's true, and it's been shown to be the case, you are not crazy, why encourage it? That's only making your DH part of the toxicity.

[Spring Butterfly]

Yes I absolutely relate even down to withholding information about other people I'm close to in our same social circle.

It feels like stalking to me. It happened less and less since  I limit interaction with common acquaintances.

When it comes to my DH family 3 are toxic so I asked him to not share anything with me. The less I know the better including what he's shared with them about our life.

I'm sorry you're dealing with this.

[Cat of the Canals]

How are you feeling about your DH's role in this triangulation? I'm honestly surprised at how matter of fact you are in saying that he will not stop limiting information. You can stop caring about how your mother and MIL are going to use the information to tear you down, and there is grief to get to that, of course, but it's not quite the same as one's own spouse. And saying it will get better with time, while he continues to feed the beast, knowing those two spiteful women are going to talk smack about the love of his life, is a pretty jaw-dropping example of denial in my opinion.

Totally agree.

If I were in your position, Hilltop, I would be quite firm with my husband about this. "I am asking you to not share information about me with your mother. I know you don't think it's a big deal, but I do. Please respect my wishes." I'd repeat it every. single. time it came up. I suspect he doesn't want to rock the boat with his mother, so he tells her whatever she wants to know. And if there are only consequences on one side (her anger or disappointment should he refuse to pass along info about you), he's going to keep making the same choice.

[Hilltop]

Thanks everyone I had to a chat to DH and said not to give too much info about me.  He doesn't give really personal info just normal stuff like at the moment what I am doing with work etc.  I get that some information will flow through but I guess it was highlighted to me that my mother isn't all that concerned with our non existent relationship but she is very concerned with a lack of info. I guess in PD land information is very important.

I had spent some time with the inlaws which is how this came out however moving forward I won't need to see the inlaws for the next few months.  So I have told DH I don't want to hear about it or anything that is said.  I really can't control this, I can't stop it.  I've decided that the two PD's can create their own whirlwind around themselves, they can enjoy the chaos and the gossiping.  I simply need to remove myself from it. Which is what I'm going to do.  I think in part I was thinking that if my parents didn't hear any information then there was nothing to mock or criticise me over but I suppose that's not the point.  I have to accept they will do that with or without new information.  The point is I need to stop caring about their opinion.

I also had to accept that whatever drama is stirred up by my mother with what she tells MIL, is going to be left between the two of them.  I would like to think it won't happen but with my mothers history it's unlikely things will remain smooth and peaceful.  They can do their PD thing with each other, I guess that's one thing I do have control over, I can remove myself.  Thank goodness for that.

If I can take anything positive out of this, is that it has cemented in my mind that I am happy to leave my communication as a text at birthdays and the holidays and that's it.  At least I no longer feel unsure of my approach or what I want.

[Cat of the Canals]

There's a simple way for him to give zero information about you without it seeming like he's giving zero info.

MIL: So what's Hilltop been up to? OR What's new with Hilltop?
H: Oh, you know. The usual.

[Hilltop]

Cat of the Canals - I will put this to him, whether he actually does it or not, who knows.  He is the GC and doesn't see his parents as I do.  My MIL recently told DH something negative my mother had said about our new house.  I managed to laugh it off whereas DH has spent a lot of time trying to show MIL that what was said isn't correct.  I did ask DH why MIL told him that, it wasn't nice, DH couldn't see it. 

I mean we had just put a deposit on the house when MIL told my mother about it and gave her the address.  Our new house isn't something to be hidden away but MIL was quick to pass on the news.  It kind of worked in my favour because I knew my mother would be critical so this way she couldn't say anything to me directly. She did get her criticism across though with FM MIL. My MIL then told my mother we were moving soon, so my mother was texting me every couple of days, have you moved yet, have you moved yet, until we moved and then silence.  Then MIL has been telling DH that my mother was calling asking what DH and I are up to, which is weird because surely MIL would be wondering why my mother doesn't simply ask her daughter.  Then my MIL showed me her phone telling me that my mother had sent her a funny video and there were all these text messages, nothing bad but I had no idea why MIL was showing me.  My MIL has also tried to bring my mother up in conversation, I simply deflect those conversations. That's what I mean the two of them would be loving this PD drama, I just want to stay away because we all know where this is going, they only play nice for so long. I want to keep as much nastiness to them, they can wallow it in and fling that mud at each other.

I suppose it's just annoying because I have been so limited with my information and now my mother has found an in.  She doesn't even contact me that much anymore.  I'm sure it would amuse her that she can get that information and there is nothing I can do about it.  I know this part shouldn't bother me but it does.  I find it annoying that she has withheld information from me in the past but she feels she should be entitled to all the information she wants.  I use to be more open with her but due to insults I started limited my info. It just feels like one big game and I'm not sure I want to be involved anymore.  Some information like what we are up to will come from DH himself which he shares about himself with his mother, I really can't stop that.

At this point I simply want less contact with my parents and funnily enough in some ways I am starting to see that how they are as parents is not something I want.  I understand I wanted caring parents but I am really starting to understand that my parents aren't that and that the issue of who they are and what I want are two separate things.  I am starting to feel like I can let go, I am not really looking at my parents like I use to.  I use to look at them like I wanted them to act like those caring parents I wanted, that they should act like that because that's what I thought parents should act like.  Now I see my parents as they are, I see they aren't those caring parents and never will be.  I don't expect my parents to act like caring parents just because that's what I believe parents should be.  I don't know if that makes sense but I'm now able to see them as themselves and see what I needed as something separate and that seems to be of some help.

[Hilltop]

Just wanted to add that my mother has often told me I am difficult.  There were times when I saw it for what it was, that she simply didn't like me.  Now I see it more.  Previously she needed me around otherwise it would look bad for her.  Now she can pass on information and make it look like she has some relationship with her daughter, its really just for appearance sake.  She has done smear campaigns in the past when she has been left looking bad in front of others or when I have made it difficult for her to keep up appearances such as with my limited information. They have mocked me quite a bit, put me down.  I think that goes along with my parents looking down on me. 

I do think now that she can get that information from elsewhere, it is more pleasant for her to not have to speak to me, the person she sees as difficult, really I am dispensable to her.  Rather than her acknowledge that the relationship is difficult for her, she simply blames me by saying "you are difficult".  She doesn't acknowledge the things she does or says which makes the relationship difficult but then I guess she does those things because of her dislike of me. 

I think she will text once a month as a routine, hope you are well BS, I am assuming there will be that superficial text at the end of this month.  I really don't know what the point is at this stage.  I mean when people get this unpleasant in your life, is it even worth it anymore? I am beginning to think no, it's not.

[Happypants]

Your mother sounds quite like mine, Hilltop. Where she's concerned, information is power, and as long as she's in the loop and gets to orchestrate the flow of information to the inner circle, she's on top. It's a bonus if I'm the last one to know and she gets to be the one to tell, even better when she uses it to ostracise.  She may see her direct link to your MIL as a bridge over you, a win of sorts, but you're on the right road by accepting and just letting them get on with it.

If they are both PD, you can bet that at some point a power struggle between them will put an end to their "friendship" and you may find yourself the target of some major hoovering.

I think in part I was thinking that if my parents didn't hear any information then there was nothing to mock or criticise me over but I suppose that's not the point.  I have to accept they will do that with or without new information.  The point is I need to stop caring about their opinion.

I also had to accept that whatever drama is stirred up by my mother with what she tells MIL, is going to be left between the two of them.  I would like to think it won't happen but with my mothers history it's unlikely things will remain smooth and peaceful.  They can do their PD thing with each other, I guess that's one thing I do have control over, I can remove myself.  Thank goodness for that.

[Hilltop]

Happypants, thanks you have described it so well.  I suppose I didn't quite see our relationship coming to this. The only thing I have seen her do is actively chase a new information source.  There hasn't been any reaching out at all.

I think perhaps I am actually seeing them clearly.  Perhaps down the track there may be hoovering but I don't think it's going to matter, our relationship is shot, it will take some major emotional discussion on her part to do any sort of successful hoover lol, and she simply isn't capable of that.  I have not seen her handle or do any in depth conversation with me in her 75 years. 

[Hilltop]

Actually I think I'm done.  After my mother told me she pitied her friend who didn't have children and made some comment about her life being a waste  (I couldn't have children) and on another occasion told me directly to my face that she doesn't respect females in my profession I have taken a massive step back from her.  When I think about spending time with my parents, I simply don't want to see them in person.  I have been treated as the SG in the family my entire life.  She has constantly told me I am difficult in fact last time I saw her in person she said it again.  The last time I hugged her I had my father doing his mocking laugh behind me, so even showing affection toward her is some laughing joke to them.  The mocking thing they did last time I saw them really disturbed me.

You know what, I'm done.  I am walking away.  There is one thing I do want and that is to find myself again.  I want to heal my self esteem.  Not only has my mother attacked my character, she has attacked the profession I am in, attacked my fertility status so basically attacked my life.  Enough is enough.  Being around her will drain any self esteem I manage to get.  It's not worth it.  What am I staying for, what exactly am I getting out of this relationship except a ton of hurt.  If I can't see myself wanting to see them in person, the thought of it fills me with dread, then what's left, nothing.

They have said some truly horrible things and really if they can't take responsibility for that, not my problem, but really I don't have to put up with it any more.  My sister is NC with me, the whole family is broken, it's not up to me to fix it.  I simply want to move on, even if I have contact with them, I just don't know when they will strike again.  They are mid 70's, they aren't going to change and I really don't have to put up with it anymore.  I don't want to put myself in that position anymore. My mother has made it clear she doesn't like me, well guess what after being treated this way for 45 years, I don't like my mother.  I simply don't like her and a relationship with her is painful for me.

It is what it is.

I am not angry just over it.  I can't trust them.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Big hugs to you, Hilltop. These are hard truths and you express them very clearly.

[Cat of the Canals]

I think this is often something that comes with VLC. Once you have a bit of breathing room, you realize just how empty the relationship is. How hard you were working for so little.

[Hilltop]

Thanks Call me Cordelia.  Thankyou for your support.

Cat of the Canals, omg, yes.  That's so true it isn't it.  How hard am I working, to keep on an even keel and feeling like I mainly fail with that, how hard I work to not react to their insults so there aren't more insults and how little do I get back.

The relationship is empty that's for sure.  I can see my own part in it.  The times I have failed to offer support etc.  I own my part in it.  I also see that those criticisms have left a gaping hole, nothing close or safe can come from that.  I guess they have failed support as much as I have and now there is nothing left.  I mean as I stood in front of my mother for the first time in my wedding dress she said to me "How do I look".  She never once told me I looked beautiful.  I may not have supported them at times, because I didn't feel safe around them to open up emotionally, but honestly my mother has at times been brutal.  I suppose it just erodes relationships doesn't it until nothing is left or what is left is so tarnished, its ruined.  And that's how I feel about my family.

[doglady]

Boy do I feel you on this topic, Hilltop.

I'm NC with both parents and in-laws. My DH, DS and DD still see my in-laws from time to time, so there is still the line of connection there even though my DH is not too bad at keeping his mother on an information diet.

However, some of it still gets through and my uPDm and uPDMIL seem to enjoy nothing more than to get on the blower and gossip and feed each other with whatever juicy tidbits they can dig up. Some of this then comes back to me via my kids and husband. Somehow both these horrible old women have an absolute talent for finding stuff out. It beggars belief how they do it. Guess they have nothing better to do with their lives. And often it's the most trivial stuff via six degrees of separation.

Like you, I have finally reached the stage of just not caring any more if this how these two sad old women get their jollies. I've got far better things to do.

I totally support you in walking away. And I completely get why you want nothing more to do with any of this. I now accept they're they're gunna do what they're gunna do, and I often just roll my eyes and laugh at the ridiculousness of it all, what they will
stoop to. Like you, I am also the 'difficult' person in my FOO (read: person who calls shit out). I am also punished for 'rocking the boat.' I jumped out and swam away. Glad to hear you're doing the same. After all, they won't ever change. PDs gotta PD!!

You'll be in my thoughts. You're doing great.

[Hilltop]

Hey doglady you are absolutely right, I seem to get caught up in the whirlwind and I've been off kilter ever since I found out.  You are right that there is no point in caring how they get their jollies.  I seemed to have had a moment where I understood that if that's the life they want to have, that's on them.  It doesn't seem very genuine to me, to have to call up someone else to get information so that you can pass yourself off as something you are not.  Such as my mother passing herself to others as knowing her daughter when she doesn't.  She is pretending but if that's the life she wants, so be it.  So I seem to have turned a corner where the two of them talking doesn't really bother me now, I mean they do it about everyone not just me.  It is their circus, I can leave them with it.

With realising that, I see it's not about my parents.  It's not even about deciding on NC or VLC.  I think for me I'm ready to focus on myself and building up my self esteem.  Mother and my MIL, they don't matter.  I think what I am ready for is to build myself up for myself.  It's nothing to do with my FOO or my in-laws.  I'm ready to get that inner child sorted out, not to help my relationship with my FOO but simply for myself.

I'm ready to move on to the next chapter.  I feel done worrying about my FOO and their opinion of me.  Their opinion does not seem to hold the same weight over me anymore.  My opinion on me has now become my main concern and this is where I want to focus.

Doglady I am so happy for you that you found your own peace. You are right PD's gotta PD.