MIL died

[Pepin]

DPD CN MIL has died.  I had it in my mind that she would be around for at least another 10 years.  This was a surprise.  And here we are.

I've been circulating though a range of emotions already.  But for the most part, I've already done my grieving over the last number of years with her. 

The only noticeable change so far is that I no longer wake up gritting my teeth or having her on my mind.  I also no longer have to fear weekends as that was the time when DH would include her in our activities.  And now birthdays and holidays are totally up to us without her presence - which is how they should have been all along.

What does this mean going forward?  Since my husband is the rescuer GC, it means monitoring his behavior within our marriage and our family.  This is new territory for him not having someone to rescue every week.  I see already that he is trying to make an effort with our older children to be present and even me to a degree.  However, this will pose challenges I think.  Our youngest (older teen) no doubt has been harboring pent up resentment towards DH and exhibited zero remorse over MIL's death -- and is ready to move on as if MIL was never a part of our lives.  Yeah, it was that bad.  This child had amazing boundaries on the surface when it came to MIL but had a very hard time with her dad. 

I've had a hard time with DH, too.  I'd be lying if I said our marriage was roses.  Yes, I wanted to pack up and leave quite a few time- but I did not because I had to be the buffer between our kids and DPD CN MIL.  I was devastated that MIL played such an integral part in our marriage without my consent.  I was completely blindsided -- didn't see it coming what she did because it was so covert.  In fact, DH is also confused as well about who she really was because he lived to serve her.  He just didn't know any better because that is how he was groomed to be.  He wasn't like that when I met him though.....he changed after we moved closer to her and after FIL passed.  I felt betrayed on every level.

So yeah...life going forward.  I just don't know how things are going to be.  It is too fresh.  But, I think it will be better than before. 

(One PD down....one to go: NF.)


 

[Poison Ivy]

Thank you for sharing this with us, Pepin. I hope your family's interrelationships can recover and improve.

[Hilltop]

Thanks for sharing Pepin.  I was thinking of you the other day and was wondering how things were going.

I hope you can move toward healing your marriage.  I suppose at the moment, it just needs some time.  You have been through so much.

[Pepin]

One thing I can confirm is that DPD CN MIL definitely skipped off into the sunset without issuing any apologies to anyone.  She also left behind personal messes that she herself should have dealt with like a mature adult before her death.  Clearly, she behaved from a place of cowardice by not fulfilling these conversations.

What does that mean?  It definitely points to who she really was at the end more than who everyone really thought she was.  This was a woman that played the manipulation card in her favor and had others perform her dirty work while she managed to maintain her spotless image. 

I am really at a loss for words about her actions.  And it will be interesting to participate in future conversations about her as extended family starts coming out of the woodwork and dusting themselves off.  Naturally, I will be extremely careful what I say since DH was her GC.  On the other hand though, how embarrassing for him?  Played like a deck of cards...

[xredshoesx]

thinking of you pepin as you all grapple with the messes left behind.  i agree with hilltop.  it's going to take some time for everyone to adjust to her absence, even though her absence is what will begin to bring you all peace.

[Pepin]

I suppose I'll keep going with this thread for a while though what I need to say may fit somewhere else.  I'm really sinking at the moment.  DH is now starting to bring things into our home...and I don't know what the protocol is for this.  I know that he thinks he is in the right...but I am rather overwhelmed about it.

He has a mountain of mail on our kitchen table that he has to deal with related to DPD CN MIL and her death.  While we do process our own mail there, it doesn't stay there.  I like a clean kitchen table.  When I drink my coffee there in the morning or eat my lunch, I don't want stuff on the table other than the napkins and other small things we keep there.  Again, I know he has a lot to deal with so I am trying to remain grounded.  I don't like the envelope with the death certificate there as it is now either.  I am sorry if this is petty. 

He also went through her pantry and brought home many food items - that we don't eat but he assures me he will eat.  Our home is very small.  We buy as we need things so this excess bothers me.  He was standing in the kitchen eating cookies that he took from her home and I just wanted to cry.  He doesn't need to eat cookies and shouldn't be but she stock piled them and of course he took them.

And this is only the beginning as I know he is going to start hauling things from her home to ours...and I am distraught.  We really don't have room for much.  We are maxed out.  We have been homeowners for over 20 years and our home is decorated the way we chose it to be together.  I can't stand the thought of any decorative items taking up space on any of our surfaces.   Our home has been my safe place away from a woman that was not nice to me.  She was "kind" to DH yet she used him against me and he has been blind to this pain she inflicted...she abused him, too but he will have to come into that admittance on his own. 

I don't want her things in our home.  None of it.  DH didn't even ask me...which means I have to bring this up with him.  How do I approach this?

[Hilltop]

Oh Pepin this one is tough and I get where you are coming from.  My MIL although she is still alive did this when we were first married.  She bought us food and items for the house, it was numerous, it was constant and it felt like she was taking over our house.  I hated the constant reminders of her, I felt like my space was being taken over by her.  I really do think this was her intention, to have constant reminders of her in our house for DH.  However DH didn't see it and it was a constant source of tension.  It irritated me because every time I saw something she gave us, it then would bring on other memories and everything else she was doing, I didn't want to be reminded of it in my safe space.  Eventually I was able to remove everything however my MIL is still living.

Now that your MIL is gone I can only imagine that your DH is wanting to hold onto this stuff to remember her. Grief is complicated.  I completely get the feeling that this is your safe place and you don't want any reminders of this nasty person in your day to day space.  Firstly the cookies.  Annoying but they will be gone and get eaten, it won't be a lasting memento.  I would maybe throw out a couple every day to hurry the process along (I know it's not nice but things are things, it's not anything concrete to the person gone).  Eventually if he stops eating them I would throw out a packet here and there until they are gone.

The paperwork, does your DH have a desk or study?  I would move the paperwork to a cabinet and say that you don't want the paperwork to be lost or misplaced.  Even put it in a folder into a cupboard somewhere so that it is protected and safe  .

At this stage I would not bring this up with him.  He is grieving and probably won't see it as you do.  At this stage I would wait and see if he brings up wanting to keep items or starts bringing home actual decorative items or furniture. If he does want to bring items over such as large furniture I would maybe then suggest that he finds a storage place to keep things until you can work out what you want to keep.  In time he may be able to let it go but maybe not now.  If there are small items perhaps take them and after a while put them away in the back of a closet and see if he notices.  Does he have a work area?  Could any items go there to an area that is solely his?

If he is struggling to let go of stuff perhaps find storage and put it there for now.  Then you can work on reminding him that things are things, it's not the person, the memories that you have are what are important.  Perhaps encourage him to take photographs or jewellery items that actually have meaning and can be stored away from plain sight.  You can always simply remind him that you don't have room to store larger furniture items, remind him that things are not important however I wouldn't bring it up in a way that rejects these items because you don't want reminders of her in your house just simply that furniture won't fit and is not sentimental to his mother.  He may get defensive over anything that suggests you don't want her things in your house.

I would wait at this point until he does bring decorative items home and then tackle it from there.  I think smaller items will be really hard because yeah they will be there as a constant reminder.  These are harder items to object to or refuse.  I completely get that you don't want her things as reminders in your house.  Even a photo of her would be irritating.  It's these small items that will be more difficult.  I have usually kept these things and then after a while simply removed them however if he is grieving this may not work.

At the moment he has only brought home cookies and paperwork, I don't know when the house is going to be emptied but you will know how things are going to go once that is done.  Keep reminding yourself that this is early days, it's fresh and raw for him and this is not forever.  If there does end up being a few items keep reminding yourself that eventually after some time they will be able to be removed.

If wants a full shrine to his mother in your house, I am not sure how I would process that, at this stage, that is not happening so I wouldn't worry yourself needlessly with that until it becomes reality.  Just remember to keep breathing.  Deal with what is happening and don't try to fret about what hasn't happened as yet.

[Hilltop]

To add if there are other family members who want furniture etc, encourage this, say it will go to good use and they actually need it whereas you don't.  I know after deaths in my family people like to scavenge free stuff especially furniture etc.  So perhaps use that angle to your advantage. 

It will probably be smaller decorative items that will be a problem however hopefully not.

[feralcat]

I'm having the same issue at the moment. H was close to his (en)F, who died close to New Year. Long story short, both are/were hoarders. H denies it, but already things have begun to be sneaked over. I hear that objects not deemed junk enough to go to the dump have been foisted by the siblings onto Grandchildren. It's a never ending cycle.

We also have a small home - deliberately on my part. I know from past experience that the 'stuff' bought in will match the space available.
It's worrying me. In advance. The only thing I can do at the moment is to ( echoing Hilltop's advice) try to keep these thoughts under wraps. I realise that to H the objects represent FIL. Probably hoarding is representational ?

I've also begun therapy again, and I've talked to her about it.
It sounds as though you've got your logical head screwed on at a very difficult point in time, Pepin. And that you can now see the wider dynamics coming into play.
What is it that people say ? Observe not absorb. Interesting times ahead.

[bloomie]

Pepin - I've been thinking of you and wondering how you are moving through this time.

Oh boy, the 'stuff'. We've been where you are at with 3 parents and know we have another round to go in the future.

What helped us:
important end of life paperwork is not on the kitchen table or a common space as that is a recipe for something going missing and causing a great deal of angst. Even if it is a secure box kept in a specific cabinet that no one touches but your DH, separating it from your own mail and the activity of the Kitchen is just plain old good sense.

Either using mil's home or a storage space for a period of time as a transition space rather than  your own home for non urgent things like furniture, etc., where your DH and his family members can sort and decide what goes where is the smartest thing we ever did. And we set a time limit on how long this sorting would go on. After that point, we donated or discarded because we needed to be able to heal and rest.

The other thing we did was find a special spot for a couple of pieces that were important to DH. One triggered me so badly I had to have it dismantled and completely 'recovered' to make it our own. And I loved the word 'recovered' because it really is a beautiful piece that has been reclaimed and oddly that brought some healing. It was a way to compromise and looks really cool now in our home.

Realistically, you can't take much because your space if limited, but you may be able to take a few key pieces. The food and the mail/documents will eventually be filed or gone and can be put away. But, the larger items, and boxes upon boxes of pictures, etc., was just a gentle, but firm, 'no can do' for me.

After my fil passed away and we were moving mil into a smaller home she insisted DH bring boxes upon boxes to our home for she and her GC daughter to come and sort - I've seen them in action and this process can drag on for weeks. No one asked, it was just assumed we would store anything she wanted to think about. DH complied! 😡 I immediately sent them all back to her to sit in her spotless, uncluttered new home to go through at her convienience. She. Was. Livid.

It has been important to me to sort through what is grieving behavior and what is not. We can support and love our H's through these times without allowing our home to be overflowing with someone else's stuff.  Because even in hard times, we still kindly hold our boundaries. That is what love does and what is the best way to preserve your connection and not end up resentful and looking at a death certificate every single day over your coffee.

[Pepin]

Thanks Bloomie, I took action and cleared away all the paperwork -- sorted and filed accordingly for DH to easily access as he needs it in a separate file box.  I think he was at ease with this.

I already mentioned to him your advice about using DPD CN MIL's home as the place to stage the letting go process of her possessions.  I asked that he and his siblings each pick a space or room to deposit things that they want to keep and to leave it all there until they have decided amongst themselves who gets what and is finalized before we decide what comes to our home.  I think he was ok with that suggestion.  It seems like we won't be taking anything in the way of furniture or decor.  But sadly, we will be the holder of financial documents and other stuff related.  I will be firm that we NOT use our garage or any other common areas in our home for storage of anything.  It must be transacted immediately from DPD CN MIL's house.  We just cannot absorb much of anything and DH knows this.  I know that sometimes he becomes attached to things because he grew up poor and that is an entirely other component to his trauma story that he hasn't really recognized....I am certain over time as we close out her estate that DH will have different feelings surrounding who is mother really was.  For far too long he has continued to view her through the lens of a child.....and that has been very concerning to me.  Something significant must have happened that caused him to be like that - other than the fact that he was designated before birth to be the rescuer in his family.   

[bloomie]

Thanks Bloomie, I took action and cleared away all the paperwork -- sorted and filed accordingly for DH to easily access as he needs it in a separate file box.  I think he was at ease with this.

I already mentioned to him your advice about using DPD CN MIL's home as the place to stage the letting go process of her possessions.  I asked that he and his siblings each pick a space or room to deposit things that they want to keep and to leave it all there until they have decided amongst themselves who gets what and is finalized before we decide what comes to our home.  I think he was ok with that suggestion.  It seems like we won't be taking anything in the way of furniture or decor.  But sadly, we will be the holder of financial documents and other stuff related.  I will be firm that we NOT use our garage or any other common areas in our home for storage of anything.  It must be transacted immediately from DPD CN MIL's house.  We just cannot absorb much of anything and DH knows this.  I know that sometimes he becomes attached to things because he grew up poor and that is an entirely other component to his trauma story that he hasn't really recognized....I am certain over time as we close out her estate that DH will have different feelings surrounding who is mother really was.  For far too long he has continued to view her through the lens of a child.....and that has been very concerning to me.  Something significant must have happened that caused him to be like that - other than the fact that he was designated before birth to be the rescuer in his family.   

I can't imagine the layers he must be working through having been designated before birth to 'rescue' the family. What a heavy load and how hard to have any other world view if that is all he has ever known in his family relationships.

[Pepin]

Today I find myself feeling uncomfortable about how I had to remain silent  prior to DPD CN MIL's death in order to hold onto my marriage.  There was so much I knew and wanted to say to extended family but it would have meant losing my husband.  And I wavered between seething and sadness often as I was so stressed at feeling trapped.  It took me a long time to understand why DH had difficulty standing up for me after we moved closer to his parents.  While it seemed like he was being treated well or better, he was also being abused her.  He mistakes loyalty for servitude.  He mistakes honor for hurting others.  All because he sees his mother through the lense of a child.  The real child all along was DPD CN MIL.

Now that she is gone, family is still reeling from what I can only call damning truths.  No one really knows what to make of any of it.  And they are all pointing fingers at DH who was the chosen victim in all of this - chosen before he was even born.  All the others cry that they are the victims - however, that is erroneous.  They had expectations and turned a blind eye to their mother's behavior while DH took the brunt of it all.

I am angry that a good portion of my marriage was lost to DH dealing with his mother while his siblings got to do whatever they wanted to do with their spouses!  As I have mentioned many times on here before, I miss my husband.  I miss the man that I married.  I miss the man that protected me against his mother.  I miss the man that only had eyes for me...moving closer to his family was the biggest mistake and red flag ever.

And here we are.  We have the chance to start over without DPD CN MIL's meddling, petty presence.  We are free.  We are allowed to pick up where we left off and get to know each other all over again.  While I am excited, I am also scared at the thought that it is somehow limited.  20 years of my life zipped by under DPD CN MIL's reign of pain and will DH and I be allowed to have each other for the next 20 years before our health deteriorates?  So much time to make up for at our age.

I did not cry at the funeral.  I couldn't even look at her.  I mostly had my eyes closed and focused on breathing.  I said everything I needed to say to her in my head while the priest spoke.  I also contradicted in my head every single thing the person reading the eulogy said.  They were WRONG.  She was not any of those things...

[Pepin]

It just feels so much lighter without her around.  Even though there is a massive mess left behind, at least I don't have to see her ever again.  I think my brain has already hit the FF button and started erasing images of her that time would usually do.  It's like that is over now and just forget about it.  The thorn has finally been removed from the situation and cannot bother me anymore.

The part that has me grinning however is the MESS left behind.  Ah.  No one saw it coming.  Not a soul can believe that the way she went out was any semblance of who she was earlier.  It is absolutely maddening.  And no one can wrap their head around it except ME and maybe a few others who already spoke to me quietly in confidence. 

I know I have already said it several times but DPD CN MIL is an example of a PD that got away with it all.  She knew exactly what she was doing all along.  It baffles me that her own children just cannot see now after her death what kind of woman she really was.  It doesn't matter that she herself experienced trauma earlier in life.  Despite having everything at her finger tips to heal, she chose to forward that abuse in her own damning way. 

I am so proud of myself for coming Out of the FOG years ago with her and not giving her an inch after that.  She knew instantly that I knew exactly who she was.  But, it didn't stop her nor did it matter because she had other enablers close.  And if I misbehaved she would have taken DH from me.  But since I gave her nothing, she couldn't touch me and spent her remaining years spinning her wheels trying to divide me from DH.  She failed.  I won.  It was painful as hell.  Ugh.  Good riddance to such a horrible person. 

And I hope the other family members finally get Out of the FOG.  It is driving me crazy watching how helpless they are. 

[Pepin]

I still have many thoughts circulating in my mind about DPD CN MIL.  And I'm sorry if this is triggering but before she passed, I felt that it would be a relief to divorce DH.  I was so tired.  Just exhausted from having MIL in my life and DH not getting it.  I would be at peace and free even if I went poof.

Now that I've had space to think about this I'm feeling a little different.  I'm worried about the time left I have with DH because so much of our marriage was wasted thanks to MIL.  DH even admitted something to me that definitely demonstrated that we had made a mistake in moving closer to MIL.  And I do feel badly for him...and I had spoken to him in the past about it and he just ignored me.  I don't have any personal gain within my marriage other than to do what I believed was right for both of us.

He didn't see it that way.  Our marriage was about me giving him space to attend to her.  It's devastating.  And I think he is realizing that all along I was firm with our vows because I deeply cared about our partnership. 

I am sorry that all these years have been wasted dealing with her with nothing to show for it.  We have lots to do going forward with our marriage.

[Hilltop]

Hey Pepin it's interesting that your MIL had a traumatic earlier life, so did my MIL.  Although I don't use this as an excuse for my MIL's behaviour I do think it helps to take the sting out of it and not take MIL's behaviour as personal to me.  For me I was able to see how MIL was damaged and that it wasn't something I was doing or my personality.  However as you say you got Out of the FOG, you healed, you worked through the pain, that is something to be proud of.  My MIL also could have done the work, she didn't.  I am not sure if help was as readily available in MIL's early days, but nowadays even just the internet alone has given people multiple ways to access help, which is such a good thing.  Your MIL and mine has had access to the internet for at least the past couple of decades as well as therapists so in essence they chose not to get help or be self reflective.

It's good that you have reached a place where you can look forward into your future with your DH.  Without your MIL's pettiness and distraction you can rebuild your life and get to know each other again and spend quality time together.  I'm so happy you are in a better place.  I had a thought when you mentioned the mess your MIL left behind. Just the other day my MIL was saying how much stuff would have to be cleaned out when they die.  Such an odd thing to say but I couldn't help but think that she could make some changes now, get a clean up done.  But no, they don't think that way do they, they leave the mess there and expect others to clean it all up for them.  My MIL was even saying how many bins she thinks it would need to clear away the garbage, it was actually a little weird.  That mess your MIL left, whatever it is, will be cleared away though, and dealt with and in time you will be completely free.

I hope the extended family do not continue to blame your DH.  He is not responsible for his mothers actions and it seems childish that they blame him for her behaviour.  Hopefully in time they move on from those roles that your MIL gave them all.

I watch my FIL's health deteriorate each year and I dread the day he passes.  I feel that will be the day I lose DH to MIL's neediness.  I wonder if we will divorce as I can only imagine how bad MIL will be.  I am thinking a lot like yours.  So if you wondered about divorce I think that is completely normal.  It does feel like a betrayal to be left out, not supported, not stood up for.  My MIL also knows exactly what she is doing as well, I only hope I manage the time as graciously as you did.  However I remember the early exhaustion I felt and unfortunately I am expecting that exhaustion to return upon FIL's passing.  I am hoping the tools I have learned now will help me later but they are a force to be reckoned with and all common sense goes out the window with these MIL's.

I am glad you are moving forward in your marriage.  The funeral is over and now there is the future, I hope you find great ways to enjoy it together.

[Pepin]

I watch my FIL's health deteriorate each year and I dread the day he passes.  I feel that will be the day I lose DH to MIL's neediness.  I wonder if we will divorce as I can only imagine how bad MIL will be.  I am thinking a lot like yours.  So if you wondered about divorce I think that is completely normal.  It does feel like a betrayal to be left out, not supported, not stood up for.  My MIL also knows exactly what she is doing as well, I only hope I manage the time as graciously as you did.  However I remember the early exhaustion I felt and unfortunately I am expecting that exhaustion to return upon FIL's passing.  I am hoping the tools I have learned now will help me later but they are a force to be reckoned with and all common sense goes out the window with these MIL's.

Hilltop....thank you for your kind and insightful words and I am sorry that you are possibly also on this same trajectory.  But from what you write, it is clear that you are more aware than I was before my husband's father passed.  It was a rather sudden death and I had no idea what I was in for after he passed.  DH was instantly promoted to head male figure of the family and it was actually quite disturbing to see him change from the man I thought I knew.  But looking back, it is clear that it was already all in motion to happen that way and I just had't seen it.

I wanted to walk out on my marriage many times.  I was depressed and demoralized....and still am working through lots of stuff.  The only reason I stayed was because of our kids.  No, it wasn't an example I wanted to set at all -- (putting up with MIL) and it makes me sick that I stayed.  But if I had left, it would have meant more exposure for our kids to DPD CN MIL and there was no way in h*ll that I was going to allow that while my kids were minors.  My kids were already figuring out that we had a problem in our family: MIL.  Her neediness took DH away when our kids needed him.  At times our kids (and myself of course) were put 2nd to MIL.  Weekends became DH&MIL time without any regard to what the rest of us wanted to do or had on our plates.  It was outrageous.  None of DH's other siblings had an arrangement like this with their mother and they lived their lives as they chose!  My husband was stolen from me by his needy, helpless mother.  My children' father was taken from them because his mother manipulated him to be by her side. 

It's been mind numbing and exhausting.  It's sick. 

But.  She's gone now and the dust is starting to settle.  It is going to be a roller coaster for a bit while DH deals with various emotions -- probably many of the same emotions I have already been through in what it took to survive up until now: anger, depression, guilt, etc.

I realized last year that DH also has C-PTSD.  He isn't aware of this yet since he was the rescuer/GC (I was the SG in my FOO).  I don't know if he will ever figure it out....but his behavior and times of becoming dis-regulated tells me all I need to know.  In fact this evening he had himself a mini tantrum.  And I know exactly why he did.  Because he never had choices in his younger years.  Our kids have choices and it pisses him off.  Well.  Too bad.  We aren't the type of parent that DPD CN MIL chose to be.  We are hard working and emotionally available (mostly except DH struggles still) parents.  We are responsible adults that take ownership of our own sh*t and we get done what needs to be done.  DPD CN MIL chose not to do this when she realized DH could do it all for her....what a piece of work. 

[Hilltop]

Yep they are a piece of work aren't they, learned helplessness. It's a horrible way to live.

It seems that by not divorcing you protected your kids a lot more than if you had of left.  Your MIL would have had a lot of access to them so I feel like you have protected yourself and them from that extra hurt she could have inflicted.

I am happy that you are able to move forward now, in peace.  Yes there may be some bumps in the road but with the work you have done I'm sure you will navigate it smoothly.  You deserve this peace, your MIL was certainly a real piece of work.

[Pepin]

Your MIL would have had a lot of access to them so I feel like you have protected yourself and them from that extra hurt she could have inflicted.

Nailed it.  Absolutely 100%.

Years ago I was at a breaking point and called up our family attorney.  I asked if I decided to split from DH would they be able to represent me?  I was told that no they wouldn't be able to represent me because they had more invested in DH and his parents so I'd have to find someone else and that they could give me a list.   

Well.  That answer from the attorney is what told me that I had to stay.  For my kids.  My husband has no idea that I have wanted to leave him many times because of his mother.  I can't imagine any woman that would put up with that crap.  My friends don't know and my siblings don't know about any of this.  My friends now know a little bit and that I am tired.  My siblings suspect some stuff but I have had to be very cautious in how I communicate with them.  I've been coming here for years to unload and seek clarity.  Out of the FOG has been extremely helpful.  I just want to shout from rooftops about how horrible DPD CN MIL was as a human being - for now, I keep that to myself.  The others will have to figure it out on their own. 

Thankfully no more abuse from her anymore though...I have to be careful that DH doesn't continue to carry her torch.

[Empie2204]

Thankfully no more abuse from her anymore though...I have to be careful that DH doesn't continue to carry her torch.

Pepin, I wish that this  never happens in your family. I hope that your Mil´s and DH´s enmeshment was not that deep.