Another step Out of the FOG

[escapingman]

Just spoke to solicitor, apparently stbx is trying to get me to back down from some of the claims. No way I give ger an inch, she would just try for something else as soon I agree to something. Told solicitor about her behaviour and she will highlight it in a format letter. Not sure what will come from that but it's a start for negoting agreements for the kids before Moving out.

Yesterday she really showed me who she is bwhi d the mask, I am grateful for that as I know is all ready for fighting.

[escapingman]

Have had some time to analyse what happened yesterday with STBX getting into a rage. I was in a really good mood and slipped with my MC and GR for just a few minutes where I spoke to her and the kids in a quite happy way. I must have just given her enough supply to get her strong enough to then unleash on me and SG. It is so important to never slip with the MC, but I hate not being able to be just me and show my emotions. But until I am out of all this I need to keep MC and GR, there are no options as she showed how quick she is ready to attack.

[escapingman]

Out of curiosity, are you going for full or split custody of the girls? You may have explained this before, apologies if it's redundant to share again.

I haven't got that far yet, currently we are negotiating if she will accept the divorce or contest it. If she contest it I will go for everything,  if not I have to see what the options are. I don't want to be the one that took the mum away from the children, but if that's the best option I will go for it. But, however badly she has behaved I will always struggle in a battle for custody as the mums tend to get it.

[escapingman]

Massive fight between the kids, tried to calm them and was shouted and sworn at by GC. STBX gets involved and started threating GC with all kinds. Then left with SG for one of their activities, left GC behind. I spent some time really talking to her, ended up with GC cuddling me and us having a really nice time. She suddenly also reveals shew wants to get back to the activity she has cancelled (because STBX hates it). There is hope, but with STBX involved it is hard. It is so hard.

[Gettintired76]

I feel you empty, in so many ways, and I'm not going to lie custody will be one hell of a battle no matter what you go, just remember it will be YOU under the microscope not her. I know I have such wonderful times with my GC when her mother isn't around. My ex has already become " the one who took a parent away" so that card has already been deal, we shall see you pays the "pot". Best of luck brother....*fist bump..You got this!

[JustKeepTrying]

This is such a difficult time.  That period between filing and finality.  It is also dangerous.  The PD will be most volatile.  Sometimes GR and MC even if deployed consistently are not full proof.  It's not on you - this is all about them.

I know you have spoken with your lawyer and you are waiting to hear her response - that you are taking firm control.  I commend you for that.

Have you had a good conversation with your lawyer about what would happen if you moved out now - and the kids moved with you?  Did you ask if it would be kidnapping since you are also the biological parent?  And you are not denying access just providing them a quieter and more stable environment?  Perhaps closer to school and activiites? etc.  You don't have to answer me - but sometimes we assume things in legal and that isn't the case.  I thought my son had to stay in the home and my lawyer advised against it.  He came with me when I left.  For safety.

Really understand all the aspects of this and you may be surprised at your options.  And when you are done asking your questions, ask "What haven't I asked that I should ask?"  It may surprise you.

I am so glad that you still posting here.  Sharing with us.  I hope it helps. 

Regardless of the law, and the PD, and diagnosis, and any of her behavior - you are worth it.  You are a good father.  A good man. 

[escapingman]

I spoke to all this with the lawyer, she doesn't want me to move out until we have an agreement in place for the girls. This will not be the final custody but something temporary agreed for when one of us (me I suppose) moves out and before the divorce is completed. If I move out before that, if I understand it right, she could refuse to agree anything and have the girls 100% of the time. In a perfect world I would go for 50/50 but let the girls decide pretty much for them selves as they are getting old enough. But as we all know, this isn't a perfect world and if the girls were to decide they would be guilt tripped into stay at STBX most of the time. But, first step is to get her to respond to the court if she accept or contest the divorce. I am not sure how long time she can delay this, she is playing the delay game now and I am sure she will as long as she can, but in the end she can't dodge the court.

Thanks for your kind words justkeeptrying, but I really don't feel like a good parent or person at the moment. I am more or less locked into my room all day and all evening to avoid as much contact with STBX as possible. I want to do things with the girls, but the interference from STBX makes every attempt a war as she tries to involve her selves and making me the bad one for not playing happy family. STBX has zero boundaries and she doesn't care at all how much she upset the girls, she happily upset them if that makes me look bad. 

Thanks Getintired76, *fist bump

[escapingman]

I am struggling a bit today, doing to much thinking I guess. I told a friend about the divorce yesterday, that felt natural and not a big deal, it's not a close friend but it felt like good to tell. That got me thinking, I haven't told my parents about it. I don't even want to tell them. I have got to realise that they have never been there emotionally for me, ever. They never thought me any boundaries, they never respected any boundaries. I have one episode with my dad, I think he is heavily co-dependent and I suspect his partner is some kind of PD, I don't know as I rarely see her. We had a crisis and were thinking of moving close to where my parents live, just a couple of miles from my dad. He never paid any interest in the house we were about to buy, he never asked any questions, and after our last viewing of the house and we came back to his all he was worried about was getting his car back (we had borrowed it) so he could drive off to an event with his partner as she had driven off without him. When growing up, and when an adult, he has always arranged things in the background without telling me his plans, making me always worried about what comes next. I don't think he has ever stood up for me or asked me how I really am, he has always been interested in me fitting in to please whoever is the one he has promised something, his sister, his partner, my sister, a neighbour, the man from the store, anyone but me. That he hasn't said anything about how uNPDw treats me and asked me how I really feel makes me quite sick. Instead he has always challenged it to push through his agenda to please someone else, leaving me in the middle of a battle I can't win as I have to let someone down, that person always being me.

My mum, I really don't know what she is but she has some issues, but I don't think she is PD, but she has definitely gone through traumas. She always tells me something, and then does the opposite. I don't trust her, if I tell her something very personal, I would expect her to have shared that with everyone within minutes and added her judgement to it. She does not get along with my uNPDw, so she will be delighted when I tell her about the divorce, but I can't stand the thought about her being smug and unleashing all her bad words about STBX. The pair of them have had a passive aggressive conflict as long as I can remember, they both smile towards each other but both putting me in impossible situations as they both tries to get their way. I have got to realise my mum has done this as long as I can remember, but I have never challenged her as I have never had any boundaries. Just an example, my mum was going to have the girls over night, she was planning to cook some food, chicken I think it was. The girls came to me telling me they didn't really want that kind of food (here is where I think that had been started by STBX telling them this to challenge her), the girls being to scared of my mum so asks me to tell her they didn't want the chicken. I told my mum if it would be possible to give them something else instead and maybe give them the chicken next time. She tells me yes of course no problems. The next day, you can guess it, the girls tells me that she gave them the chicken.

I could probably go on for ever with similar examples. Sorry for this rant, this is probably the kind of things I need a T to talk about. I can see how my parents left me with no boundaries and as an easy target for STBX.

[escapingman]

I am wondering how much of my detachment of my parents is down to uNPDw and her devaluing of them since basically the start of our relationship. It has been a roller coaster and I have been in the middle of a storm trying to please all sides.

STBX caught me in the door when I was on my way out, asking me I have had any more thoughts. What thoughts I replied playing dumb. You know she said, the marriage, and then she went on about how I just can't throw away all years and so on. I told her I had not had any thoughts and nothing had changed and that if anyone had thrown away the marriage it was her. Then I left without listening to what she was about to say. It felt quite good, I genuinely didn't care about what she had to say for herself, and I didn't feel anything about the marriage being over. I am past it, I have done my grieving, I genuinely are on the other side mentally now. I do still struggle when the kids are involved, but that's for a different reason.

[square]

EM, boy, is she relentless. Just checking to see if you changed your mind, eh? Over and over and over. Offering no promises. Just talking about what it's doing to her. I bet you weren't interested because you know it by heart by now and it's boring. You've seen the movie 1000 times and there's nothing to be curious about.

user, I totally agree, EM does too, that's what he wanted in an ideal world which he knows he hasn't got.

[escapingman]

As Square says, in a perfect world with 2 civil parents I see no reason why the kids could "roam" between the 2 houses. This will not be an option, my first stand would be 50/50, but I might go for full custody as STBX is losing her cool with the kids. GC is under heavy fire by her at the moment and I am trying to calm GC down and explain how her own behaviour creates problems. As I get 1 step forward with GC, STBX make sure she put her 2 steps back. I honestly think STBX will struggle with having the girls, holding a job and taking care of a house. I might be wrong, but I think she will struggle to cope. That we would split the girls is out of the question, but something STBX is threatening with. I can't see anyone allowing that to happen though. I do think the girls is starting to really see something is wrong with their mum, GC is really fighting back at the moment.

[JustKeepTrying]

"GC is under heavy fire by her at the moment and I am trying to calm GC down and explain how her own behaviour creates problems."

Explaining to a child, especially a preteen/teen, that your STBX's behavior is due to the child's behavior is problematic.  First, as the adult, your STBX in a perfect world would be the adult and not react the way she has.  Second, your children do not have the mental capability to put in place MC/GR - it is unnatural for us adults - and you referenced it earlier in a post how hard it is - imagine how hard it is for a young girl in puberty with all that mania who just wants a mom. 

This is where you need to be the stable adult and protect them at all costs.  If your kids talk back or fight back - then you gently remind them it is not productive but that their feelings are valid.  That is so crucially important.  Their feelings are valid and important and you do value them.  I know you do.

I know you had a long and lengthy discussion with your attorney about the kids and I applaud you for that.  But let him know that the abuse is escalating and that you are concerned for the children.  You have video evidence - this may be the time for all of you to leave.  Talk to him again and do it soon.

[escapingman]

Sorry, I really wrote that text about GC incorrect. Let me try again and hope this makes sense.

SG and GC have an argument, GC annoys SG in some way and SG physically attacks GC. GC is hurt, making a meal out of it but SG did something wrong. At this point, GC starts screaming and swearing and calling everybody names, me and STBX included. GC then ends up as the bad one as she had escalated it. STBX screams and threatens her. What I am trying to tell GC is that, if she can stay calm after SG attacked her, and not swear and scream, she will not end up in trouble, SG will be the one told off for physically attacking her. But, the fact GC screams, swears and calls both me and STBX names makes her ending up the bad one.

I am trying and trying to calm her down to not react like she does to the SG attack, but with STBX keeps screaming back at her and threaten her it is very difficult. I try to be fair and tell them both off and ask them to be nice to each other, but STBX makes it about her and how she needs the house calm and then she starts threatening them. My calming of GC has nothing to do with STBX, it has to do with GC's reactions to her interaction with SG.

I hope this makes it clearer.

[JustKeepTrying]

Much clearer escapingman.  And only so much more difficult for you.

I do believe that some of this age but a great deal of your kids behavior is also due to your stbx.

I hope you get out soon and the kids can spend more time with you outside of their mother's influence where they can find peace, stability and a place to grow emotionally.

[escapingman]

This dynamic created by STBX is killing me. The last days I have got a bit closer with GC and GC in turn has calmed down a lot. This has resulted in SG getting into a fit and kicked off, screamed and being extremely nasty to both me and GC. It all ended up SG tried to set me up with STBX telling her stories about what a horrible person I am. I really can't do this anymore. I don't know what to do, whatever I do STBX has caused so much damage that it's not possible to keep the peace. Only time peace has happened is when me and the girls went away for 2 days. It's so obvious I need out, with the girls. But the lawyer need to start working overtime now, I don't care about the cost. I just need out.

[escapingman]

I have had a really good day to day, dodged her desperate attempts several times. But now I am really starting to struggle with doing the MC as she keeps baiting me. She comes to me declaring her love for me, I tell her to stop, she tells me again and gets closer, I tell her to stop, she tells me she loves me again and asks if I want to eat the evening meal with her, I say no and she complains. She leaves the room crying, comes back 2 minutes later telling me she loves me and she just wants us to be happy together, I tell her to leave me alone, she starts accusing me of being mean and asks me why I am so mean to her. I tell her to just leave me alone and she starts threatening me if I am not nice to her I am not allowed to leave the house again.  So in her world I have 2 options, I either do as she says or else I will sit in house arrest. Got it all on recording for all its worth. I am really struggling with this as I said, I can't be nice to her for obvious reasons, I can't be mean to her as that gives her supply and I can't ignore her as she keep baiting. Whilst writing this she came in again, for the 10th time in 30 minutes trying to tell me she loves me, had to tell her again to leave me alone, she then asks if she should just stop talking, I said yes and now she has been crying uncontrollable for 10 minutes.

As she has played this charade so many times now over the last year(s) I don't even feel much anymore. I just feel sorry for her for being so incredible stupid that she can't see what she is doing. Pathetic to be honest. If she wanted another chance her first thing to do was to acknowledge what she has done and say sorry, but she can't do that.

[hhaw]

EM:

I worry for the children...... they're listening and absorbing lwhat goes on between you and stbx.

Please tell your attorney the girls are being harmed bc stbx refused to stop talking Abt divorce, stop manipulating girls, stop lashing out at them and you.  Put it in an email.....and tell her the kids need crisis intervention....a social worker but someone!

Tell your attorney the stbx WILL escalate and you fear for everyone.

I think some attorneys assume all litigants exaggerate but you need her to listen to a tape where girls .are present

Ask for help....tell her how bad it is for the children.

Wen stbx threatens suicide have her taken in for evaluation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No faffing around!!!!!!!!!

[escapingman]

hhaw, I already spoken about this with my solicitor and she is going to formally request STBX through her solicitor to stop involving the kids. Not that she will stop, but it will be recorded formally.

5 minutes after I posted my last message she came in to me and asked me for the receipt for the TV for her financial disclosure. The TV is 7 years old......

[hhaw]

No one cares if your wife is bugging you, IME.

What they should care about is adults barfing the adult conflict and divirce onto the children.

They should care about domestic violence and weaponizing children to attack, disrespect and torment a sibling and non parent.  The GC is being harmed, the SG is being harmed and you are being harmed through the courts continuing failure to act, ime

Keep documenting the situation in e mails to your attorney.  Continue making crystal clear what you SEE and hear and the effect on the children.  Continue making it clear you have concerns/ fears about the downward spiral if stbx's mental health and do not hesitate to have stbx taken in for evaluation should she threaten suicide again harm to herself.

That would help you get protections for you and the girls quick and get stbx help she definitely needs

If everything goes South you'll have something documented to back up your story.

Be very polite and reasonable, but frank and specific about the details you've beef red and can prove.

[escapingman]

I am really really struggling right now. Whatever I do or say, STBX is making it out to either be me loving her or hating her, nothing in between. If we are in agreement about something, she pretends we are an item again. It's killing me, I must be able to agree with her about something regarding our children without it meaning we are back together? I must be able to disagree about something without it meaning I hate her so much I want her dead. I know the game, but it's still so hard and especially when the kids are involved. I have had to take a hard decision today about one of the kids activities, it has become a toxic environment and I just want her out, STBX has wanted her out for months bur for different reasons, so STBX is now delighted and think she has won. She hasn't won anything, I am sad, daughter is a bit upset, but she really doesn't need to be involved in something toxic when I am trying to get her into activities that should make her happy.

Next week will be big, through my solicitor we will ask STBX to stop involving the kids in the divorce and also ask her to just agree to the divorce. I have a feeling she won't agree, that will be painful, but in some way I hope she doesn't as I think she will be exposed in front of a court. I have all the evidence, and she feels entitled.