Closing the door

[Cat of the Canals]

I'm not who I used to be, who she  trained me to be, and that is an ongoing insult to her. I changed her script and dared step out of my assigned role. I don't beg and plead for her attention or approval and have realized my life really does go on anyway. Md believes the world revolves around her and that everyone must perform per her everchanging and unvoiced expectations.

I think this is the absolute heart of it. Anything other than absolute obedience is unacceptable. (The irony being that even when we ARE obedient they will almost always find fault with something.)

She will continue punishing you until you conform to her expectations.

[moglow]

What I encourage you to do, is determine why. Are you still hoping she will change? Are you hoping that you will change enough that she can't hurt you? (She seems incredibly caustic even in the twisted realm of PDland, I don't believe even Job could have put up with this one, honey)Take the time you need to reflect on these things.

Good questions - and I've asked myself the same,  believe me. Part of me wants peace [or at least silence] at any price. Part is sheer habit and limited force of will on my part. I was trained to answer even when I had none, to always respond in some way. Yes it was followed by mocking and ridicule because it was never the "right" or mandated response but I tried. That's ingrained in me still. I've changed in many ways but that part lingers on.

I guess at the root of it, I don't want to be the person she's made me out to be. I want to rise above the pettiness, point it out for what it is and move on. What she does with that isn't my stuff.

***
Yesterday I told her I'd like to set aside a time to talk about this situation between us, that i cant and wont go through all this with her again. Final confrontation, if you will. "What about now?" asked the good fairy, all bright and chipper. [One of her other personalities stepped in?] Apparently she'd vented her spleen and cleared her internal decks so she felt better for now. Um no. I was at lunch and didnt care to totally disrupt my work day.

Md immediately steps in and suggests we just put the past behind us and move on, that nothing is helped by bringing it up over and over, can we both agree to do that?? As if it's some novel idea she just thought of. Are you fucking kidding me?! How many times have i asked, begged that of her, to just stop? She sees me at the breaking point and NOW capitulation? I just went silent in stunned disbelief/ dismay at that point. Complete vapor lock on my part while I tried to find words.

The convenience of her timing doesn't escape me for a minute. There's a hook in this plan of hers, we know that - she wants something. I suppose she first imagines some special mothers day visit or lunch that hasn't been mentioned. It is after all coming up on her special day.  I don't believe for a minute it'll last or she could actually do any of what she suggests.

I deeply resent the rug sweeping bullshit and not.one.hint of remorse or an apology, not even for the way she talked to me less than 24hrs before. I don't trust her as far as I could throw her. I'd be happy if she's just GO, take all her crap with her. But now she's supposedly doing exactly what I asked for years... if i bring up the need for apologies, I'm again the horrible awful. Truth be told, I'm past that even. Apology or no, I'm numb and have nothing to build on with her. Its like 60 years of warfare, there's destruction, debris and landmines as far as the eye can see.

So. Interested to hear your take on this latest bs.

[moglow]

My gut, everything within me, wants to find courage to say simply: thanks but no thanks. I don't have it in me anymore and don't care to pretend for her or anyone else. I just want to be left alone.

[bloomie]

Moglow - Your mother is beckoning you into a house of mirrors and a continuing atmosphere of gaslighting from where I sit on this side of the screen. I have been there and understand the trauma responses that can erode our ability to protect ourselves and see the most reliable way forward for us in profound ways.

I can only say that what I came to understand and accept with my own very disordered mother was that so much of what meant everything to me, what I sacrificed and anguished over, the wounds that I was attempting to bind up and heal from that had been inflicted without even a second thought, my own mother didn't even remember. Nothing that transpired between us ever changed her behavior toward me.

She was fundamentally incapable of loving others, most likely starting with herself. She was as grandiose as they came and not responsible to anyone for anything she ever said or did. Especially if it arose during an emotionally charged situation of her creation. She was energized by the drama and acrimony. She developed nothing but frenemy type relationships shifting from besties to cold stone emotional cut offs for the slightest perceived slight. She was cruel and broken and could shape shift on a dime. And she was beautiful and funny, interesting and talented. Larger than life conquering the world one minute, broken and out of control mess of a person the next. Being in relationship with my mother was a total mind/emotional/spiritual abyss of confusion and for a sensitive soul like me it was toxic. 

All of this to say with full confession... I was never able to go fully NC with my mom, in part because she disappeared within herself with debilitating mental illness and died fairly young so I was just really stepping into recovery and Out of the FOG at the time she grew ill.

But, knowing what I know now, seeing the healing that began so much more quickly when I was no longer living with the  specter of my own md over my life...for your own mental and emotional health could you step away for even 3 or 6 months and determine to not communicate with her and give yourself a break? A real break. Just to work through what could be trauma induced picking up the phone and responding to someone who is making your life miserable when everything in your body is screaming NO!!

This just broke my heart when I read it:

My gut, everything within me, wants to find courage to say simply: thanks but no thanks. I don't have it in me anymore and don't care to pretend for her or anyone else. I just want to be left alone.

You have the right to live in peace and step firmly away from emotional neglect and abuse. I hope you will. You are a beautiful and loving soul who deserves time and space to heal. Hugs from another daughter!!

[moglow]

Have mercy, Bloomie, if that wasn't exactly what I needed this morning! I wish I'd talked to y'all about this yesterday, my mind was just spinning and I couldn't even grasp it all.

Your mother is beckoning you into a house of mirrors and a continuing atmosphere of gaslighting from where I sit on this side of the screen. I have been there and understand the trauma responses that can erode our ability to protect ourselves and see the most reliable way forward for us in profound ways.

I can only say that what I came to understand and accept with my own very disordered mother was that so much of what meant everything to me, what I sacrificed and anguished over, the wounds that I was attempting to bind up and heal from that had been inflicted without even a second thought, my own mother didn't even remember. Nothing that transpired between us ever changed her behavior toward me.

She was fundamentally incapable of loving others, most likely starting with herself. She was as grandiose as they came and not responsible to anyone for anything she ever said or did. Especially if it arose during an emotionally charged situation of her creation. She was energized by the drama and acrimony. She developed nothing but frenemy type relationships shifting from besties to cold stone emotional cut offs for the slightest perceived slight. She was cruel and broken and could shape shift on a dime. And she was beautiful and funny, interesting and talented. Larger than life conquering the world one minute, broken and out of control mess of a person the next. Being in relationship with my mother was a total mind/emotional/spiritual abyss of confusion and for a sensitive soul like me it was toxic.

Absolute lack of recall with md too, to hear her tell it - no recollection of or remorse for anything she'd said or done, repeatedly. What I didn't say in my earlier post, on the heels of her "we BOTH need to put the past behind us and stop bringing it up" mini speech when I was trying to balance my brain, I made some comment about how I'd asked just that for years, that she leave it be and stop dredging it up. Her *immediate* response was "but YOU always bring it up!" No. I've stepped in to answer her ridiculous and unanswerable questions or comment that it wasn't mine TO answer, tried to explain myself, but bring it up with her, fling it back in her face as I've experienced so many times? No.

My internal conflict is in not wanting to inflict what I see as harm to others whoever they may be, however superficial or how much they may have "earned" it. I've met the good fairy before and she never lasts long. She doesn't have it in her. We went a round just after the first of the year over stupidity and foolishness, her claiming "just when I thought everything was going to be okay." All evidence to the contrary and based on the air and moonbeams in her head. I'll just have to rip that bandaid off - and I'm sure opportunity will present sooner rather than later.

But again, thank you. I needed the clarification. And I appreciate you sharing how things ended with yours, I had wondered. The similarities are eery - from this side of the screen I see it as a blessing that yours exited some time ago. I truly wonder what the lesson is in all this for me.

[Andeza]

Protect yourself, Moglow. You deserve to be treated just as well as you treat everyone else, and you deserve to treat yourself just as well as you treat others. And honestly, from what I gather here, you seem like a pretty awesome person!

[moglow]

Back atcha, Andeza!! I know sooner rather than later it'll be "Yep. There she is, right on schedule." Wondering if we should take bets, I'm guessing bare minimum early next week once her post-mothers day disappointments kick in. Fathers Day isn't long after that and the jealousy [because she's aware I miss and mourn both Daddy and Dad] will eat her alive anyway.

I'm fairly sure I'm doing my grieving now and won't miss her later. You can't miss what you never had, right?

[Andeza]

Actually I do think you can miss what you never had. Especially when you see other people having it. So it does hurt. And it's okay to hurt. I even think it's okay to keep hurting at reminders, not nonstop and not severe, just a little pang, a twinge, a sigh at what could have been. Followed by a mental "Oh well" and dust yourself off and on we go. But that's me.

Bets? I'm betting about three to five days before Father's Day she'll figure out some way to reach you. Maybe a candygram... I'm betting you get the silent treatment from her from now till then, and if you DO talk to her around Father's Day, she'll blow you up for not doing anything for Mother's Day. Hard pass for me. I don't send mine anything. No cards, no texts, no third party well-wishes, etc. The family members I do talk to are extremely careful not to mention her, of their own volition. I only know she's still kicking because she randomly likes my cousins' posts on facebook (aka fakebook because who's actually real on there? )

[moglow]

Actually I do think you can miss what you never had. Especially when you see other people having it. So it does hurt. And it's okay to hurt. I even think it's okay to keep hurting at reminders, not nonstop and not severe, just a little pang, a twinge, a sigh at what could have been. Followed by a mental "Oh well" and dust yourself off and on we go. But that's me. (https://outofthefog.net/forum/Smileys/default/bigwink.gif)

Yeah. This week I'm driving that struggle bus, tbh. The whole "mom's the greatest and I'm so lucky to have her and I love love LOVE her!!" every where I go, is hard to swallow.

[Andeza]

Yeaaaahh.... now's a good time to not watch TV or listen to the radio for a week or so... 

[Cat of the Canals]

When my husband and I see happy, functional families (at least in appearance), we both often remark, "I can't even imagine what that's like?"

[moglow]

    My last visit with youngest brother and family, I was in tears at times just being with them. They saw to it that I was included, it wasn't that, but the true care and laughter in every situation just floored me. If someone was tired or frustrated, they worked through it or adjusted plans and kept going. The world didn't fall apart and nobody was shamed for feeling/not feeling xyz. So much acceptance and love there, something I've never known.

[moglow]

I called md Sunday, knowing it would eat me alive if I didn't at least try. Actually I text her then called several hours later. Predictable as the sun coming up in the morning, she says she didnt get my texts, got all defensive and hot under the collar then started in again about me needing to get my phone checked because she doesn't get my texts.  When I told her we weren't going into all that again, suddenly she had to go: "someone's just come in." Cut me off, on mothers day - call total 2:19 min.

To me it takes little effort to at least pretend interest, listen for a moment, look at what's in front instead of stressing herself and everyone else over the far distant and unchangeable past. Had anyone actually come in, it's easy enough to connect the dots and she's on the phone with one of her children. She's somehow cast herself as a victim, and my call didn't fit the script. Heck, maybe I derailed that whole fantasy and she was actually disappointed that I called? It's one of those times I'd kinda like to know what was going on in her mind, how she can't see herself as the common denominator of it all.

I didn't see the funny until hours later, how truly predictable and pathetic it's all been, me trying to jump her imaginary hurdles and hoops of fire - when none of it mattered to her at all. The shit I put myself through "trying to do the right thing" all my life. I stressed myself over what? Not a damn thing. She's truly not that interested unless there's a fight involved, and all my fight here is gone.

[SunnyMeadow]

how truly predictable and pathetic it's all been, me trying to jump her imaginary hurdles and hoops of fire - when none of it mattered to her at all. The shit I put myself through "trying to do the right thing" all my life. I stressed myself over what? Not a damn thing. She's truly not that interested unless there's a fight involved, and all my fight here is gone.

This is pure truth and wisdom. I'm glad you see it moglow. I wish I would have seen it decades ago, it would have saved me bucket-loads of anxiety. They really aren't interested unless there's a fight, or in my mother's case ... big gossip or chaos to be had. Pathetic is right.

[moglow]

The big gossip and chaos are there too, she just doesn't have sources for either right now. I'm sorry you know this too, Sunny.

[bloomie]

moglow - I have a sneaking suspicion that if we could see/know what they were thinking... things like your mother's behaviors still wouldn't make any sense to us.

Honestly, with my own md and inlaw md, I don't think they understood/understand themselves and their own motivations which seem to shift with the winds. Zero reasonably healthy and others focused consistent patterns of behavior with each. Depth of a teaspoon in general with both of them.

You did what was right for you. What you needed to do to rest easy with yourself. I so get that and often choose the same for my own self. And you have further validation with the phone games. 

[moglow]

Md's complete denial of personal responsibility in any situation that casts a less than flattering light on her is mind-blowing. It's as if she blinks [blanks?] and that's over, we need to put it in the past OR you get denial that anything was said/done by her at all. Total disregard on her assertion just days before that we needed to leave the past in the past, and there she was Sunday dredging it all back up to no apparent purpose. Then a convenient visitor as a cherry on top, as if THAT happened.

It's seems like she keeps trying to insert another piece from a different puzzle entirely, shoving it in there sidways to fill a space and make her choices make sense in the big picture. She truly doesn't see anyone or anything outside herself and her inner dialogue, assumes everyone is in it with her and gets very defensive when shown that's not the case at all. She invented it so it must be true and everyone must accept as truth.

***
Anyhoo, youngest brother and family are planning ahead and will be coming over for several days at end of summer. She's already told him she hopes her house is in order by then [they're not even suggesting staying with her, they're getting air bnb near the coast/me]. This is the same brother she told three years ago "now's not a good time" and claimed issues with her house when he last planned a trip over. He offered several suggestions but no, not a good time. At that time she'd not seen him in over 10 years, didn't see how insulting and hurtful that was. Far as I know nothing has changed with her house whatsoever, and my best guess is it's worse now than it was then. But yeah. She's got plenty of time to spin this into a big fat imaginary drama. Me, I've already told them to pencil me in for a porch swing or bunk bed for the duration - I'll be bartender when they return from visit to her house!

[Andeza]

I'm beginning to think that certain pwPD, particularly malignant types like Moglow's md for example, live in a time warp. I think that outside of these conflicts, time doesn't exist for them. They are on complete autopilot, disassociated, not aware of the passage of days, weeks, months, years!!! beyond the simple fact of "In February, I had a fight with so-and-so. In March, I had a fight with son. In April, I had a fight with daughter." And that's it. They've only got hours of their life to look back on, and that's all that gets committed to memory, that and the fuel for such "fights."

I don't know. It's a very twisted, backwards way to live life. To live for the conflict. To put people down nonstop and expect them to put up with that crap because Family, Blood, etc.

[moglow]

Andeza I believe you have something there. We've compared notes and have a general clue how the cycle runs, we're just never sure what exactly will trigger them. We used to do the walking on eggshells until we realized that served no one. When she's determined to be angry, she finds or invents a mad if necessary. More often than not, she pulls from the far distant past now [because she has nothing recent to work with?] and try to rehash. No earlier conversations or resolution is acceptable, and she's even said a number of times "but last time i asked you about this you said xyz, now you're saying abc!!!" Because it's not important and I answered you years ago. I'm on sheer guesswork and hopeful memory at this point, can only assume where that whole nightmare went sideways. But Idea: stop asking the same questions and trying to get a different answer. I'm gonna start making shit up just because I can!

We have also noticed that she leaps off into something with little background and no segue - she'll just launch off into a tirade and we have no clue what she's talking about. It has come out a few times that it's some long ago and far away that she's replaying in her mind, our call apparently interrupted her mid battle and it's as if we were there for all of it.

Resolved: there's no safe place with that woman, not if you have a heart or feelings at all. Everything is a potential landmine and everyone a possible target. Body armor required.

Looking forward to hearing her attempts and excuses to worm her way out of this year's family gathering - guarandamntee she tries pinning it on me, that we've not "resolved things" or some such.     I give a flying flip. I'm still going to be there and she can make her own decisions, same as the last few times I've been with them. The last several times I've visited brother's, she was livid that I didn't clear it with her first and wouldn't talk to me when I returned. Um OKAY!

[Andeza]

You didn't clear it with her? Oh the shame of a GROWN woman not asking her elderly mother for permission to visit her own family. tsk tsk /extreme sarcasm of course

But you just reminded me. Prior to going no contact we were at a family gathering and I started discussing the Harry Potter books with my Gma, who is a huge fan. uBPDm overheard and bursts out "I don't know how I feel about you reading those!" I wasn't allowed to as a young adult at home because magic To which I replied "Well, I'm an adult so... you don't get a vote anymore, mom." Left her gobsmacked and nobody said a darn thing. I think Gma may have chuckled. Point bein' ... They never accept that we're grown and get to make our own choices.