Coming up with a healthy plan

[mustard_seed]

Hi all... I'm new and have a recent post in the Welcome Mat... I'm trying to navigate a situation with my in-laws. I would appreciate advice anyone has from their own situations.

DH and I just got married, have been together for 10 years. We've *always* fought about his parents, mainly his mother, who I think is uPD. His dad is (at least) an enabler. uPDmil is an emotional vampire, always Testing her son's love, needing daily contact via text and/or phone calls, making unreasonable demands, etc. (there's so much more, but I'm trying to give high-level details here). Basically she's intrusive, demanding, and unreasonable.  Narcissist? (Also, at times, critical and sarcastic towards my DH re: attire, grooming, etc).

With me, she's tried many things, including overt belittling and sarcasm in the beginning that has become more covert over time. I've tried to be MC and GC with her for the most part, but that's been challenging as she's intrusive and nosy. (And I have a history of being empathically engulfed and have poor boundaries).

Recently, uPDmil started a very strange campaign towards me that's hard to describe here without giving too many identifying details... but basically, it's emotional abuse that had me feeling I needed to prove that I was loyal, trustworthy, and a good wife. (Does that make sense?) Just very suggestive comments on a very specific theme in several formats (text, in person, phone).

I was finally able to get DH to see this covert stuff (whether that was an appropriate move or whether I handled it well I am still unsure). And he finally confronted her about it. And there was a massive blow-out as a result. MIL and FIL are now both making threats and blackmailing DH, saying this is the last time they'll put up with "this" and threatening to abandon him if he doesn't treat them better. (I heard his side of the initial phone call & I think he was completely reasonable and fair. It escalated and he did lose his temper, but I think that was only after the denial and blame-shifting had started on the other end).

There was a brief period of silent treatment, and then DH reached out to try to establish connection again. I wasn't there for the meet-up, but it sounds like the emotional equilibrium has been reestablished, with uPDmil as the victim. Apparently, it's clear that I have been trying to get his parents out of his life for some time now and am becoming successful at it. 

Now... here's where I'm trying to sort through things:
-I've gone NC with both MIL and FIL. I've blocked them on social media and on my phone. DH knows and is OK with this. This is how I want it to stay, although I predict that at some point DH will talk about how things are "getting better" with them and I will feel guilty/obligated to try again with them, for his sake. Just something to publicly state and try to stay aware of.

-I've asked that DH not talk to me about them much at all. I explained that I seem to be getting triggered and it's causing conflict between us and I don't think it's good for our marriage. (I was very triggered by the whole "she's trying to take you from us" thing and I found myself trying to make sure DH knows that I'm a good wife. Aka I think the abuse-by-proxy was working on me. (Thoughts on this would be very much appreciated).

-We have been thinking of trying to have a child (would be our first). I am so scared that they will ruin everything. Part of me wants to give up on this dream and just maintain our family of 2. Has anyone sought counseling on something similar? I'm wondering if having a "plan" would be helpful, and if working through that with a therapist might be appropriate. (Not sure DH would be open to this, though).

-I want to be supportive of DH's choice to maintain a relationship with MIL & FIL. I'll admit it's hard for me to understand how he can want that when they treat me the way they do, but I do have enough of an "inner adult" to know that it isn't about me and he has to make his own decisions and I need to respect that. But I also MUST take care of myself first. Any tips on this? Is it unsupportive to ask that he not talk to me about this? (We have a very connected marriage and typically discuss things like this in depth... I think that without talking to me, he doesn't really have anyone he can talk to about it). Ahh, boundaries.

---
And also just something to note publicly and try to be aware of: I have a trauma and abuse background with my own FOO and have done a lot of healing work on this. But everything is triggered again: the self-neglect (poor eating habits, sleeping habits, etc.), the anxiety, etc. I have an appointment with a new trauma-informed therapist next week, wish me luck. 

Thank you for reading. I'm really glad this place exists. I understand I'm asking lots of questions and I know it can't all be handled in one sitting... I think just writing this has been therapeutic though.

[notrightinthehead]

So glad to read that you are getting help for yourself and I hope the therapist will be a good fit.  As you know, we can't help people who don't want to help themselves, and your husband seems to be in the FOG and enmeshed with his parents. There is nothing you can do to change that without making your own life difficult, so it's best to accept that and finding a way to protect yourself as best you can. Which you do. NC and getting emotional support for yourself is excellent and with time you might come to a place where all the drama created by the PDs in your life is like something you would watch in a soap opera. Mildly interesting but nothing to do with you.
The healthier you get, the more you are also become a role model for your husband - so keep on working on yourself, implement the tools from the Toolbox and create a safe, sane space for yourself in your family of choice.

[Hilltop]

Hey MustardSeed, you are pretty much describing how my MIL was in the beginning of my marriage.  I've come to see that my MIL's campaigns were to undermine me so that DH still had loyalty to her, so he still needed her, so he still went to her for advice.  There's more of course but ultimately I felt most things my MIL did was to undermine me.  I did a lot of the things that you have implemented, such as no contact with MIL and FIL, I also didn't talk about MIL with DH, this was so I didn't get triggered and I told him if there were any further problems with MIL regarding me, that she could come to me and talk like adults anything else is smearing me and bi*ching about me behind my back.  I can say with time things did get better but really that's mainly because I am not around as much and with time I simply stopped caring about her and her opinion.  She can still get under my skin if I spend too much time around her.  I've found distance helps me a lot.

I think it's great that you are getting therapy for your FOO issues.  I eventually did the same and it's because of those original issues I feel I didn't handle the inlaw issue great to start with.  I would get upset or react, not to MIL but to DH.  This of course is what MIL wanted but I was so emotional and hurt by what went on and DH not being able to see it.  So you say you react to your MIL and her campaign against you.  Here's the one thing I wish I had of done in the beginning.  I wish I had of ignored MIL and concentrated on my marriage, which means being healthy myself, doing things I loved, working on a peaceful life with DH and doing fun things together.  I mean yes we did have that but we had so many fights in between all about MIL.  Your MIL is like my MIL and they usually want to divide and conquer, lessen the bond between you and so I believe it's really important to turn toward your marriage and firmly move your MIL out of your marriage.  This time in your marriage is really special, you are young and really it's a time for fun and laughing.  Don't let your MIL take this away from you by introducing problem after problem into your marriage, I regret this, I regret reacting and having fights about her.  Try to leave the problems with her as much as you can.  Really your MIL trying to start a campaign about you being a lousy wife is HER problem.  It's actually nothing to do with you.  Do you believe you are a good wife?  Is your husband happy with you?  Those are the only two opinions that matter.  Just because she says stuff doesn't make it fact.

Your DH can maintain his relationship with his parents, that's his choice.  However if there are issues there he may have to resolve them himself either by getting counselling or talking to a good friend.  Your MIL is saying you are trying to take him away so anything you say is simply her vs you.  I removed myself when I went NC and refused to talk about MIL.  For me it was a good option.  I simply said I was willing to talk to MIL if she had any issues with me and that's literally all I would say.  At this point I didn't want to get dragged down into MIL drama.

I found being around MIL and knowing what she was saying also led me to feel like I needed to defend myself or show myself as a good wife.  Here's the thing though, our husband's married us so they must love us and think we are good people.  We don't need to prove ourselves to our MIL's.  Just being yourself in your marriage is enough.  I do still fall into the trap of feeling like I have to prove myself which is why I still to this day distance myself from MIL, because she is so judgemental.  I am much better but it's hard.  Taking care of yourself, keeping yourself healthy and happy will be more beneficial than trying to prove anything to your MIL.  I doubt you would ever win or be good enough anyway.  I was constantly torn down by my MIL, I could have been the queen and MIL would have still found fault.  So I found it easier to emotionally disengage, I didn't respect my MIL so I eventually didn't care for her opinion.  I can still get annoyed by her opinion but I can of other people as well, I just try to make sure I don't respond if I am triggered by her but this is something that is ongoing.  Sometimes I am find and occasionally I will get triggered.  I just try to limit my exposure to her and I do much better.

If MIL feels that you are trying to take her son away, this is her belief and her problem and it's between her and her son.  This is an issue they can work through themselves.  I took myself out of this equation with my MIL.  My MIL already believed it, me denying it wasn't going to help.  My MIL actively disliked me so nothing I said would be appreciated or recognised as helpful.  Take some time out, away from her and look after yourself.  It will benefit you greatly in the long run.

It's a tough ride.  I'm sorry you are going through it.

[bloomie]

mustard_seed - So many important questions and experiences you describe and share with us. Thank you for giving us such a good bigger picture of the way the relationships have developed and where you are today.

To address a few things... I am decades down the road from you. And it is so clear to me that any important, life changing decisions - like whether to have a baby, should be predicated only on what is best and right for you and your DH. Your in laws cannot ruin anything, especially something as potentially beautiful as adding to your family, unless you and your DH allow it.

Trust yourself, trust your very smart boundaries that you have already put in place, keep communicating and connecting with your DH. You need him to take his rightful place and unite with you. That doesn't mean you agree on everything, it doesn't mean you have exactly the same interactions and level of contact with others, it means that you unify around the sacred care and protection of each other and your marriage. That comes first. Your marriage and relationship and future belongs 100% to the two of you.

If anyone, any other human being, brings angst, division, strife, drama and trouble to your doorstep and is unwilling or unable to manage their behaviors in loving and respectful ways toward both of you and doesn't honor your relationship.. you limit their access to the most precious and important parts of your life. And you do it in unity, in agreement, as a tour de force because you are that committed to this very important relationship with each other.

I want to be supportive of DH's choice to maintain a relationship with MIL & FIL. I'll admit it's hard for me to understand how he can want that when they treat me the way they do, but I do have enough of an "inner adult" to know that it isn't about me and he has to make his own decisions and I need to respect that. But I also MUST take care of myself first. Any tips on this? Is it unsupportive to ask that he not talk to me about this? (We have a very connected marriage and typically discuss things like this in depth... I think that without talking to me, he doesn't really have anyone he can talk to about it). Ahh, boundaries.

I gently question why you want to be supportive of his choice. Would you be supportive of this choice with an old college buddy who created this kind of pain and potential division for both of you? Your DH is continuing to go toward people who have treated his beloved wife disrespectfully and who have blamed you for their inability to maintain loving relationships with you and your DH. That seems to be hurting you both.

Respecting your DH's right to choose is not the same as supporting a choice that may be harming him and you.

I don't know why he needs their approval or their validation or whatever it is he is seeking from them, but as long as he loves you more than he loves them - and it seems he really does... he may not get it.

Truly, the most supportive thing I can think of to do is to encourage your DH to find a good mentor or therapist to figure this stuff out with and to take a neutral posture that holds strong as your DH partner in life, but does not take up all of the angst and emotion that your DH doesn't have to feel because you are carrying it around.

Dealing with your in laws blatant animosity and scape goating of you while you are also dealing with DH's emotional fall out of it all, where he possibly needs to sort through some stuff that belongs to him, is a lot more than it seems fair to ask of you.

It is possible that being neutral and kind in the face of your DH's dealing with the emotional immaturity of his parents is another option of a reasonable level of support given the entire situation.

For so long I wrongly believed my DH shouldn't to have to make a choice between me and his FOO. That belief went unexamined and I was unwittingly supporting years of really toxic interactions where my in laws were pushing, through every single means possible, that my DH choose them and when he didn't the punishment cycle and accusations, smear campaigns, and all of the ugly continued.

I now believe and understand that we all have to make choices all of the time about how close we can be to people based on who is trustworthy and loves us, builds up our lives and family versus those who bring heartache and trouble and refuse to take responsibility for themselves.

But... they are his parents... yes, they are and one would think that his parents would have at least as much investment and commitment to keeping all of your relationships loving, respectful, and healthy as you and your DH have. It seems they do not I am very sorry to say.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Girl, I'm right there with you. NC with the toxic IL's, with MIL as the Queen, who have scapegoated me and set me up as the competition with them for my DH's affections. Set up for this scenario by my own toxic FOO. Like Bloomie, I tried and tried for years to make things right. But over time I've realized that I was in fact set up to fail in their eyes, which it sounds like your MiL and her smear campaign are doing to you, too. I could have walked on water and she would have said I was a poor swimmer.

I've also struggled with feeling guilt over wanting to just be done with them and consistently feeling like they could just go pound sand for all I cared. They are his parents, after all. (I feel the same way about my own parents, for the record.) At least they won't hurt anyone pounding sand!

"I want to be supportive of DH's choice to maintain a relationship with MIL & FIL. I'll admit it's hard for me to understand how he can want that when they treat me the way they do, but I do have enough of an "inner adult" to know that it isn't about me and he has to make his own decisions and I need to respect that. But I also MUST take care of myself first. Any tips on this? Is it unsupportive to ask that he not talk to me about this? (We have a very connected marriage and typically discuss things like this in depth... I think that without talking to me, he doesn't really have anyone he can talk to about it). Ahh, boundaries."

I could have written that. Bloomie is dead on. They are his parents and you'd think they'd want to foster love all around, but apparently not. You are smart for stopping them from hurting you. I also stopped being "supportive." If he wants to spend time with them, I will not facilitate his transportation. I won't make more than usual effort for laundry to be done like I would for a business trip of his. Heck, I'm not even on with his talking to them over the phone in our house anymore. This may seem petty, but I am done going out of my way for them in any way whatsoever. The people who forced the you vs. them dynamic is not you. But pick you even if your DH is sometimes wobbly! As for understanding how he still needs a connection to them, I feel similarly to you. I don't get it. But it's also true that for years I fawned over those who were nasty to me. It's trauma and trauma bonding.

An area I struggle with is the role of "therapist." The personal emotional cost is too high, it's very true. If I don't help DH... he can find another resource or go without, his choice. That is really more respectful than flying to his rescue.

[mustard_seed]

Thank you so much for your response, notrightinthehead. Just reading your words is giving me a big sense of relief... even though now I'm having a hard time explaining why. I think it's just helpful to remember, over and over, that I need to spend my energy getting healthier rather than being pulled back into the chaos. You very succinctly point to the healthy and sane response and your words bring me hope.

"The healthier you get, the more you are also become a role model for your husband - so keep on working on yourself, implement the tools from the Toolbox and create a safe, sane space for yourself in your family of choice."

^^^ This is amazing and I want to keep this top of mind.

[mustard_seed]

Hey Hilltop, Thank you for sharing your experiences with your own MIL. It is reassuring to hear that it can get better with time. It's also really helpful to have some ideas and insights on these dynamics, like your awareness that MIL probably wanted to undermine you and manipulate DH into still needing her and going to her for advice.

I've struggled with whether to analyze these dynamics between MIL and DH over the years. One part of me says: "don't give your energy to this, just focus on yourself and happy, positive things." But I can also see that I've gone back into the FOG several times and I think partly it's because I've taken a rosier view of things that just aren't rosy in reality. So... I guess what I'm saying is I appreciate you sharing your insights and they're helping me to have my own little aha moments about these dynamics. And I think that helps me to create and commit to a healthy plan.

I'm really sorry to hear that you have regrets about how MIL affected your marriage... that sounds really painful.
It makes so much sense what you say that "they usually want to divide and conquer, lessen the bond between you." Our situations sound similar in that I've also reacted *a lot* to MIL's actions, but I've directed my frustration at DH, with me saying things like, "why can't you see this?!" over and over. But it sounds like I'm playing right into MIL's hand when I do that, allowing for it to drive a wedge between DH and me. Like you, I'm also sad about all of the fights we've had about MIL over the years. I really want to turn a new page. This forum seems like a helpful place for doing that. Thank you for sharing all of your hard-won insight, seriously. It's already helping more than I can say.

It's also helpful to hear about your approach to talking about MIL with DH. My instincts are that in addition to NC, I need space from even talking about this with DH, time to regain a sense of my own well-being without getting constantly triggered by hearing the things she says about me, or the ways she's manipulating DH. I also find myself trying to pull him Out of the FOG. It's good to know that not talking with your own DH about it has helped you to be less reactive to MIL, something I definitely need to work on.

[mustard_seed]

bloomie - thank you for taking the time to read through my story and give so much feedback and support. I appreciate the reminder to focus on protecting my marriage, a sacred bond that I created with my husband. This relationship, even with our challenges over the years, is one of the safest places I've ever known. And yes, it is absolutely necessary to protect our bond from anyone who threatens its integrity. This is a very helpful place to put my energy.

I know you're right that no one can ruin anything for us unless we let them (re: having a child). That is an empowering thought. But, I am afraid that my husband might let his parents impose upon our family re: a child, due to some sense of familial obligation or perhaps a heroic attempt to love everyone into health and well-being. uPDmil has repeatedly stated her wish for grandchildren, and would likely show a sense of entitlement to a child's life. DH is mostly in the Fog (though he does show some clarity, especially in poignant/dramatic moments, and he seems to have clarity around how they treat me... but foggy about his own relationship with them). I just don't know how he would handle boundaries around a child, should we have one.

But all that being said, what you are saying about focusing on our bond is really resonating with me. What can I truly control? How healthy I am, how well I'm focusing on protecting and growing our bond. He has shown signs of standing up for me with his parents, and he has said that he doesn't expect me to have a relationship with them if I decide it's not something I want in my life. So, there are reasons for hope and faith, I believe, re: a child.

And also the gentle question about supporting his decision to maintain a relationship with MIL and FIL is really making me think. Since you posed that, I remembered that he didn't actually reach out to reestablish connection with them until after I'd asked him what his plans were re: same. I'm very guilty of trying to fix/help/support in a very active role, and I'm not sure it's truly for the best. Like I said, I don't really understand why he's still trying so hard with them, and I do find it hurtful, given how they've treated me. I also see him taking emotional abuse and it seems it's been normalized for him for a long time. Maybe I really need to think about "support" in a different way. Yes, I do believe this is his choice to make. And I do feel that I need to respect his decisions. But do I really need to actively work to help him with maintaining those relationships? Maybe not. Maybe it's more harmful than helpful. He and I have become aware of how even within our relationship we're prone to some engulfment stuff and we actually worked through a lot of that in creating our marriage vows. We both agreed that two whole, healthy people are the basis of a healthy relationship. So, yes, definitely need to reflect on this some more.

I wonder if some of the urge to "support" that you have also shared you felt earlier in your marriage is somewhat fueled by this scapegoating and blaming behavior on the part of the in-laws. It seems like it triggers my own self-doubts and self-worth issues... and that I need to prove that I am a supportive, loving wife, who will go the extra mile to support his relationship with his parents and help him avoid any feelings of guilt or grief in that department.

I do think I can see how I'm carrying the emotional burdens of others, and I know that's something I've done in the past. I'm not exactly sure I understand the mechanisms of how this is working. I do know that the more he and I talk about all of this, the more angry and anxious I feel. I also noticed that during the period of silent treatment between the blow-up and the re-connection with Mil and Fil, he was calmer, happier and had more energy. Now that they're back in touch, I notice more ups and downs during the day. Am not sure if it correlates to phone calls or texts or whatever, but have definitely noticed a shift in his mood since they started talking again. In the past I would think he was irritated *at me*, but I've been observing it with a bit of distance this past week, and am wondering if this is just the effect MIL has on him... She will often text him at 6 a.m. and if she doesn't get a response, will ramp up texts and phone calls throughout the day. I think he gets irritable as a result.

I don't know if DH would go to a therapist for support; it's come up before and he's shown some hesitation. I could see a mentor or friend being helpful for him... will keep that one in mind. One thing that's coming to me is that *I* need more support outside of our marriage, and I'm glad I'm going to see a therapist next week.

Again, thank you. It seems you've walked this road for a long time and I'm sorry to hear that for you. But you've obviously decided to use that to help others... which is giving me ideas of where to put my energy as well.

[mustard_seed]

Hey, Call Me Cordelia, it's nice to "meet" you and hear some of your story. I almost can't believe how similar these scenarios can be when I hear about other people going through this with similar dynamics, like smear campaigns, for example. Just like with my uPDm's smear campaign, I'm finding myself wanting to set the record straight and prove myself, but everything I read online about smear campaigns suggests that I *not* do that.

I don't blame you at all for wishing your in-laws would just go pound sand... it sounds like you've been treated very poorly with all the scapegoating. It's funny, when I read about other people and their situations, it's so easy for me to say "that's toxic and they shouldn't put up with it," but when it's me, I have a harder time with discernment and clarity.

In reality, I think my compassion and sense of obligation has been exploited to where I've taken on this role of being the peacemaker/fixer/taker of abuse in order to even out the family's equilibrium/emotional ecosystem. It's like you said-- MIL is the Queen-- and needs to be in that role, or else. Well, I'm done bowing down. It's already damaged my mental health to try as hard as I have for 10 years.

Thanks for sharing your take on the support/therapist role issue. What you said about the emotional cost being too high is really hitting me. I'm also reading about trauma bonding and wow...  that's ringing all kinds of bells in my head. But it helps to remember that my husband is fighting his own internal battles that I can't fully understand. From what I'm reading, it sounds like the best thing I can do is my part to create a safe, secure bond and home base for us.

I so appreciate you reading and sharing your story as well... you sound like you've reached acceptance around some things and I hope to get there eventually.

[blues_cruise]

Hi mustard_ seed. Sorry you're going through all this, it sounds so stressful. 

-I want to be supportive of DH's choice to maintain a relationship with MIL & FIL. I'll admit it's hard for me to understand how he can want that when they treat me the way they do, but I do have enough of an "inner adult" to know that it isn't about me and he has to make his own decisions and I need to respect that. But I also MUST take care of myself first. Any tips on this? Is it unsupportive to ask that he not talk to me about this? (We have a very connected marriage and typically discuss things like this in depth... I think that without talking to me, he doesn't really have anyone he can talk to about it). Ahh, boundaries.

I think there's only so much support you can offer with this anyway and it's healthy to acknowledge this and draw a line in the sand. When my father was at his worst I was able to discuss it with my husband to a point, but I needed far more support and understanding than he was realistically able to give (which was where Out of the FOG was so helpful). That's not to dismiss the support and love he did give me because it was invaluable, but it is a really heavy, nuanced topic and a lot to pile on to just one person.

I've gone NC with both MIL and FIL. I've blocked them on social media and on my phone. DH knows and is OK with this. This is how I want it to stay, although I predict that at some point DH will talk about how things are "getting better" with them and I will feel guilty/obligated to try again with them, for his sake. Just something to publicly state and try to stay aware of.

As it stands, they have a relationship with their son and you get to have a bit more peace. It works for everyone. You're under no obligation to have a relationship with anyone who is hostile and disrespectful towards you. I think when we marry into a family there's this obligation to fit in to their way of doing things and to try to be completely likeable and malleable to their needs, which completely overrides our own. It's particularly difficult when everyone in the family has been used to bowing to every demand from the matriarch in the past and won't stand up to her, which I think is usually the case with dysfunctional parents because ultimately people who have experienced the worst of their behaviour in the past just want an easier life. I was exactly the same with my dad to be honest until it reached the point of being completely unbearable. Choosing to distance yourself is not really any different to having boundaries in place with anyone who's problematic though as far as I'm concerned. As a grown adult no-one has the right to dictate how you choose to spend your time and who you choose to spend it with. Abusive behaviour has consequences and the result here is no contact; there's absolutely nothing there to feel guilty about on your part.

In reality, I think my compassion and sense of obligation has been exploited to where I've taken on this role of being the peacemaker/fixer/taker of abuse in order to even out the family's equilibrium/emotional ecosystem. It's like you said-- MIL is the Queen-- and needs to be in that role, or else. Well, I'm done bowing down. It's already damaged my mental health to try as hard as I have for 10 years.

Yes! At the end of the day you're really just dealing with an emotionally immature person with an over inflated ego. Strip away the crown and you'll find there's just a 5 year old having a temper tantrum in an old woman's body. It's not worth the ongoing stress trying to fix a problem that you didn't create. 

[mustard_seed]

blues_cruise,
So good to hear your thoughts as someone whose parent was the person with a PD and than having to deal with that in your FOC, with your husband. Very grounding to be reminded that there is only so much "support" I can actually offer as I am not a professional!

I think you're spot-on about how everyone in the family has had to bow down to the PD person. And also helpful insight re: the motivation... that H and EnFil are just looking to have, as you say an easier life/peace. And as I love my husband dearly, this helps me to have compassion for him but also to see that it's just not about me. If I remove myself from the equation, that leaves the original FOO to deal with uPDmil's behavior. Which I guess, in my heart of hearts, I'm hoping is a different calculus now that DH has had a taste of true love with me. It's so interesting to me that he's been able to build something *real* with me (and I him) despite our dysfunctional pasts. I have to believe that this personal growth and learning somehow prevails over the past dysfunction. (Rose tinted glasses? A sense of faith? It's too early to tell...)

I loved the image of uPDmil as a child in an old woman's body. Really takes the power out of it and helps me see it for what it is, at least in this moment. Thank you for the support... you and everyone I've interacted with here are so kind. 

[mustard_seed]

I'm back to post an update on the UPDmil situation as I'm trying to stick to my original plan despite some recent changes.

After more than a month of quiet on the IL front, DH got together with UPDMil last week, and has plans to see both her and ENfil again this week (already?! good grief). DH's mood has shifted right on time with all of this and he seems irritable. I asked him if he was okay, saying "You seem a bit down or something," and he replied that he and UPDmil had been texting that day, and that was probably why he seemed off. He asked if I wanted to talk about it and I said no, sticking to my original boundary. He asked again the following day, after having a few drinks, saying, "She wants to get together for dinner..." and trailing off. I couldn't tell whether this meant I was expected to go, but I just said, "I don't want to be involved, and, as I have said previously, I don't think it's healthy for me, or for our marriage, for us to be talking about this. It was causing a lot of conflict before, and things have been going really well between us." He has since stopped bringing it up, he has plans for dinner with them both tomorrow, and he seems, again, moody and irritable.

I'm sticking to my original boundary goal of not talking about this situation with him. I've been going to therapy (though T & I haven't discussed IL's yet and are still getting to know one another and mostly talking about my symptoms and coping mechanisms). I've been really focused on dialing in sleep, nutrition, self-care, and focusing on work and hobbies I enjoy. I've been feeling and functioning much better since my original post. Again, thank you so much for the support. Stay strong everyone. This is the right path, I believe.

[Cat of the Canals]

He has since stopped bringing it up, he has plans for dinner with them both tomorrow, and he seems, again, moody and irritable.

It might not seem like it, but this could be a positive sign. Without you available as a scapegoat or buffer, I suspect he's feeling the brunt of their nasty behavior. That will make it a lot more difficult for him to simply explain it away or ignore it the way he perhaps used to.

[Call Me Cordelia]

You know, I've noticed similar behavior from my H when he's been in contact with the IL's. He's withdrawn and preoccupied but he says everything is "fine." Okay then.

[bloomie]

mustard_seed - thanks for the update. Wow! Holding your ground and boundaries that has created good, healthy space for you and your DH!! IMPRESSIVE!!!

I have said here on the forum before, it was not until I stepped back and my own DH had to experience all of the all that is his family dynamic without a filter, scape goat, human shield.. all of the roles I once played I am sorry to say, that the FOG began to lift.

Stay the course! You are doing the healthy and loving thing for you and your DH.

[Hilltop]

I had a similar experience as Cats.  Once I removed myself, MIL continued with her complaining.  She complained I wasn't there, that I didn't like them as I wasn't visiting.  I simply ignored it all.  In the end MIL wasn't happy that I wasn't seeing her, she didn't have any ammunition against me, she eventually got over it.  However it was interesting because they will use anything to try to cause problems.  I think I even ended up saying to my DH one day "How can I be to blame for anything, I haven't even been around for the past few months, I haven't seen her, I haven't spoken to her, what is there to be upset about".  This was after him bringing up some problem MIL had invented.  In the end DH was the one to be sick of her complaining.

In time you may even find that you can discuss the inlaws with your husband but at the moment I think it's great that you are focusing on your therapy and self care.  Give yourself this time to sit back and reflect.  It's great that things have been better with your DH.  If your MIL is saying or doing things leave it with her.  If DH is feeling moody or irritated by her, that's ok, that's between them.  The less involved you are, you cannot be dragged into it because they will need a scapegoat soon to blame for all this unhappiness, don't let it be you.  As soon as you open your mouth it will foisted onto you.  Just leave it with them.  In therapy you will be able to gain more insight and learn ways to cope and communicate about it so there is no rush to talk about it now. It's not urgent, you can come back to it later if you need to.  No point in causing continuous stress over it right now.  It will exhaust you both. 

It's great that you are in therapy, doing hobbies, doing things you enjoy and enjoying the peace with your DH.  It's great that you have slowed down.  I hope things continue to improve.

Edited to add, it helped me to not dwell or think on MIL too much.  If your thoughts do go to her or the past or what has happened I find it helpful to not think in terms of "I am hurt, I was betrayed" etc.  Put it back onto her.  So try thinking "This is MIL's issue or problem".  "MIL thinks this, this is about her".  It helps a little to detach as you don't take it in personally and leave it with the other person.  Your MIL may be saying your name but ultimately her complaints are really her problem, her opinion, her thoughts, it doesn't make it true.

[mustard_seed]

It might not seem like it, but this could be a positive sign. Without you available as a scapegoat or buffer, I suspect he's feeling the brunt of their nasty behavior. That will make it a lot more difficult for him to simply explain it away or ignore it the way he perhaps used to.

Thank you Cat for sharing this insight. I hope you're right. At the moment, I'm scared he's acting this way because he still sees me as the scapegoat/problem in a sense. If only I would act right, he wouldn't be in this pain, you know? But that's literally just a story in my head and I'm not sure. I'll pay attention and see what, if anything, shifts.

I can also totally see it being what you say... that he's maybe dealing with some of his own feelings (anger?) as a result of having to face them without the buffer. Also, I know from past experiences with VLC with them that MIL is probably asking lots of questions about me and when I'm going to come around again... which he doesn't enjoy fielding. Seriously, thanks for the feedback. Very helpful to have input from others!

[mustard_seed]

You know, I've noticed similar behavior from my H when he's been in contact with the IL's. He's withdrawn and preoccupied but he says everything is "fine." Okay then.

Well I'm glad it's not just me, but I'm sorry you have to deal with this too
What hurts me so much is how we can go from warmth and connection to THIS, and so quickly. I can get really mad that he's letting his family have this effect on us. Sending you a big hug, Call Me Cordelia.

mustard_seed - thanks for the update. Wow! Holding your ground and boundaries that has created good, healthy space for you and your DH!! IMPRESSIVE!!!

I have said here on the forum before, it was not until I stepped back and my own DH had to experience all of the all that is his family dynamic without a filter, scape goat, human shield.. all of the roles I once played I am sorry to say, that the FOG began to lift.

Stay the course! You are doing the healthy and loving thing for you and your DH.

Thank you bloomie! I imagine it is important to celebrate the milestones and progress, because it seems this could be a long, hard road ahead. I've been reading some of your old posts to understand your story and it's so inspiring. I think "human shield" puts it perfectly... and it's helpful to hear about how your decisions changed things for you guys.  I'm really grateful for your healthy role modeling here. Staying the course, thanks to some new friends who've really helped me find a sane mindset around all this.

I had a similar experience as Cats.  Once I removed myself, MIL continued with her complaining.  She complained I wasn't there, that I didn't like them as I wasn't visiting.  I simply ignored it all.  In the end MIL wasn't happy that I wasn't seeing her, she didn't have any ammunition against me, she eventually got over it.  However it was interesting because they will use anything to try to cause problems.  I think I even ended up saying to my DH one day "How can I be to blame for anything, I haven't even been around for the past few months, I haven't seen her, I haven't spoken to her, what is there to be upset about".  This was after him bringing up some problem MIL had invented.  In the end DH was the one to be sick of her complaining.

In time you may even find that you can discuss the inlaws with your husband but at the moment I think it's great that you are focusing on your therapy and self care.  Give yourself this time to sit back and reflect.  It's great that things have been better with your DH.  If your MIL is saying or doing things leave it with her.  If DH is feeling moody or irritated by her, that's ok, that's between them.  The less involved you are, you cannot be dragged into it because they will need a scapegoat soon to blame for all this unhappiness, don't let it be you.  As soon as you open your mouth it will foisted onto you.  Just leave it with them.  In therapy you will be able to gain more insight and learn ways to cope and communicate about it so there is no rush to talk about it now. It's not urgent, you can come back to it later if you need to.  No point in causing continuous stress over it right now.  It will exhaust you both. 

It's great that you are in therapy, doing hobbies, doing things you enjoy and enjoying the peace with your DH.  It's great that you have slowed down.  I hope things continue to improve.

Edited to add, it helped me to not dwell or think on MIL too much.  If your thoughts do go to her or the past or what has happened I find it helpful to not think in terms of "I am hurt, I was betrayed" etc.  Put it back onto her.  So try thinking "This is MIL's issue or problem".  "MIL thinks this, this is about her".  It helps a little to detach as you don't take it in personally and leave it with the other person.  Your MIL may be saying your name but ultimately her complaints are really her problem, her opinion, her thoughts, it doesn't make it true.

Hey Hilltop-- thank you for all of your encouragement and insight. You're so wise and calm about it, "this is her problem, it's not about me," and just staying the course.  I can definitely find myself ruminating about the whole thing, about wasted time and past mistakes. And then also worrying about what will happen next a lot. It sounds like I can expect some form of scapegoating, based on yours and others' experiences. It's so so helpful to name it though, and not let it affect my self-image. *Hugs* and thank you <3


While we may still be dealing with H's emotions, with their FOG and surrounding issues, at least we *know* what's going on. This is a step in the right direction. >>>