The Fallout After Both of My Parents Died-please help me grasp this?

[Solong]

I would be so appreciative if someone was able to narrate back what they see in this situation. My gut knows I'm in a toxic trap with my sibling and need to slowly back out. I will try to be as descriptive as possible.

Both of my parents died in 2021. My mom after long battle with cancer in July and then my dad unexpectedly in December. Through years of therapy and putting emotional boundaries in place with my nuclear family (especially my mom), I was able to find some peace and still have a relationship with her. In her final years, we reached better terms and she grew to be one of my favorite people to call for a chat, although admittedly I did need to still compromise my needs to have that with her. Which is what brings here today...

My parents house is left to my older sister, older brother and I. Two months ago my sister asked my brother and I if her oldest daughter and finance could move into the house and rent from us. My immediate response was, "yes, I am glad to help them, however my own family cannot lose significant amounts of money if the market changes. This could get messy so let's write up a contract to ensure that doesn't happen." The market is expected to gradually decline. I repeated this to her multiple times over the next couple of times she brought it up. She seemed to listen, but never really engaged. That should have been my red flag to say no right away and prevent all that happened next. My brother is very non confrontational. He and wife did not think it was a good idea for niece and nephew to move in, they were a bit more on the fence about it and probably would have gone with the flow if I had said yes, but did not want to say it to sister.

Flash forward to almost 6-7 weeks later, one day sister suddenly brings up the topic with a new sense of urgency telling my brother and I that niece/nephew need to move in ASAP. She out of the blue irritatedly said "so are we doing this or not? They need to know."  Prior to this, it was always communicated as a sort of idea, but no real immediacy or concrete ness, so this was confusing to me. I sort of felt like, "did I miss something? We're conversations had that I was unaware of?", it felt odd to be sort of left out of important conversations where I am very much a key player. (The suspected truth is sister just kind of brushed it under and didn't communicate until nice/nephew communicated urgency. Communication is not sisters strong suit, clearly.)  Once sister communicated urgency, I doubled down on communicating my family's needs to her "yes, but we can't lose money." (Again, I told her this at least 3 other times across the few times she brought up the topic in the weeks prior  in just that way, to which her response was always "we don't want to lose money either"- (inside my head, I was thinking ok, then we should sell, but I was wanting to allow her some time to figure this out and see if she could hear my needs and respond.)  I even took the time to write out a detailed plan in writing and suggested we get the house appraised, write up a contract based on appraisal, and if the house depreciated below a certain agreed upon number, my family would not take the financial loss but my sister/her husband would take the loss. (Hate to say it so bluntly here, but my mom and dad left the house to all three of us to split equally. It does not seem fair to me that one grandchild gets priority, while others take a hit when the market declines and money is lost because we want to help one grandchild. And, this prioritization of this first grandchild is an evident pattern, so setting this boundary was important to me). I've never seen a level-headed, reasonable solution (my detailed written suggested remedy/compromise) to a very complex situation (one that isn't my burden to bare, sister should have been doing this if she wanted this to move forward as I already communicated my concerns on several occasions ) knocked down and dismissed so casually. I even said to my sister, "a ten thousand dollar loss may not feel significant to you, it's critical to my family. We need to relocate soon to get our daughter (her niece) into a better school." She wouldn't even hear it. I continued to hold firm. "I'm happy to help niece/nephew to live in the house, but we need to do this the right way. In writing, appraisal, etc.,." Dismissed with a simply "that would never work". I then said, "okay what other solutions do you propose" (to get my family's needs met)- no solutions proposed.

In essence, the way I see it is my own sister wanted my brother and I to split the inevitable financial loss from helping her kid stay in the house near rent free, while my own family and child took a hit as well. This BOGGLES my mind how my own sister cannot see this and could think this is okay. Never in a million years would I ask this of anyone.

One point for clarification, niece/nephew have the world on a platter. They outlive their means, drive a nicer car than we do, niece stays at home with baby, nephew is about to start a very high paying job soon (he will make what husband and I make combined. They are fine!). So, this "gift" of financial risk for my family that I was expected to just hand them is not a dire need, it's a convenience and a want. And I am healthy enough to know that even if it was a need, it does not mean I ever have to compromise my own family's well being to help someone else. But, if it were a true need, I likely would have chosen to help.

My sister did not like my firm boundary. She did not like when I told her that I felt wronged by how this was handled. She treats my niece like she's her friend and confides in her. So now my niece knows all the details from my sister's "side", (what "side" is there? My sister is no victim here.) Niece told me nephew is mad at *me*. This is unbelievable. My husband is really ticked off how my sister made us out to be the bad guys here, when in truth she deeply mishandled this situation down to the nail, including over sharing details with her daughter that made nieces aunt/uncle (us)look poorly. Niece is pretty reasonable, level headed and is very fond of me, so she is at least trying to seek to understand. She confided to me recently that nephew is mad, her mom was mad and that she does see how this situation made me out to be the "bad guy". Nephew doesn't understand and wants to talk to me because he wants a good relationship and doesn't understand why I "did this to them".  It's a mess.

It's just frustrating. And I honestly won't forget how carelessly my own sister dismissed the need of my husband, daughter and I. It's mind blowing  to me.

This right here, is the family dynamic my mother and father created. Those who go against the dysfunctional grain are "the problem".

Thank you for listening. This was cathartic to write out!

[BerneseMtnMom]

It is so good that you were able to write it all out, and that makes you feel better.  Due to several years of dealing with dishonesty, I forced my sister to do a mediation to settle my father's house, because I knew I needed a third party to watch over what ever arrangements were made.  We got an appraisal in January 2021 and she got two appraisals in May and July of 2021.  (The first appraiser refused to complete the report, according to my sister.)  We found a mediator that would do it without us hiring lawyers.  At the mediation, my sister signed a contract to purchase the home for X dollars, and immediately reneged.  It has been a mess ever since.  It is a long story that spans generations, literally.

The main thing I would narrate back to you, is my reading that your sister feels entitled to controlling the disposition of the house in a way that favors her kid.  With entitlement, you cannot just sit down with her and say, "We need to create fairness", because fairness does not work for an entitled child.

I am so sorry. My sister and I now only correspond through my attorney.  She has not hired one and just sends e-mails (full of false statements) to my attorney.  My advice is to stay firm and know your truth.

[M0009803]

The scenario you just described sounds like a massive trainwreck waiting to happen.

What happens if nephew/niece stay renting for longer at the house....What happens if they stop paying rent?

With your entitled sibling in the picture, this could get very ugly.   I have a similar sibling and the greed & entitlement they have internally is immense (they feel life "owes" it to them).

[Solong]

Thank you both. I actually think you are both onto something that she feels entitled. I honestly don't really know my sister well. She's a very hard nut to crack and definitely has an avoidant attachment/personality.

So, we did opt to sell (again, I took the heat) and when signing the realtors contract there were two lines for signatures but three of us. She made some "joke", " I'm the first born and I'm taking a whole line", leaving my brother and I to squeeze onto one line. At the time, I jokingly rolled my eyes and told her "that's fine. I'm just going to draw some bunny ears onto your signature" (like equivalent to giving someone bunny ears in a picture).  We all kind of laughed and it seemed to deescalate the tension a bit. But, now I think you're right that she's obviously got some entitlement.

Above anything, I just cannot get out of my head that she wanted ME to put her own daughter ahead of my own. That is so far off base that it's going to take me a long time to resonate. I am really hoping that one day she apologizes for some aspect of this, she's in therapy so perhaps. Until then, I'm taking my distance and not waiting around. She can find me if she wants to repair.

[M0009803]

I have reflected a lot on trying to explain (internally) how people develop "a sense of entitlement" in the context of PDs, as I have an older sibling like this.

I came to the conclusion that its based on:

1. Years of accummulated familial dysfunction which makes them highly reactive and insecure.  This usually means having highly critical parents which damages their self-confidence leading to a lot of under-achievement (strictly speaking this is not the fault of the child - it is the parents and their behaviors.  But the child is the one that gets severely damaged).

2. NPD/BPD (this is correlated to (1)) personality tendencies.

3. A sense of internal bitterness that their life has not progressed according to their "expectation".   They are never happy about their current position in life because they constantly compare themselves to others for their own internal validation.   This causes them to be in a proverbial hamster wheel of near constant unhappines.

4. They will also tend to think in terms of "my loss is your gain" (type of mentality) and vice-versa.  So, if your parents helped you out on occasion growing up, she will have likely resented you for this.  Likewise, any achievement you may have had that she did not get (or did worse in), would generate more resentment.

Essentially, an individual like this can only be happy (or even neutral) for you if she feels she is in a superior life (financial & achievement) position vs you.  If they get the feeling this is not the case at any point (which can happen quite suddenly. It doesnt take much) they will do whatever it takes (no matter how bizarre, unfair, and under-handed in your view) to make you lose something for their own benefit.

You haven't spoken about your life growing up with your parents, but if you truly want to understand the WHY of your sister being the way she is, I would reflect on her interactions with your parents.     That can usually help in understanding the bulk of her current behaviors.   Easier to protect yourself in the future as well if you have a better understanding of these behaviors.

[Solong]

Thank you M###.

I've written about my parents before. I miss them both (they passed last year), but yes, they created this. I don't think my sister is full PD (by comparison I have an NPD MIL whom I've written loads about on Out of the FOG IL board). Yet, sister does seem quite underdeveloped. She had lots of challenges in middle school and high school. Dropped out of college and married at 21. Barely worked before she got pregnant and stayed at home with three kids. Her kids are her world and it's always seemed like anything outside else is outside her scope. She is *very* internal. She has very fragile self esteem, self image and did share that she is struggling to find her purpose in life now that her three kids are young adults and my parents are dead so she has no one to care for.

I feel better after writing everything out and processing my own part in it. In short, I have some codependent tendencies and I took this extra hard because I have am rejection-sensitive, especially when it comes to my family. (My mom was emotionally neglectful almost my whole life, so I've got a scabbed over abandonment wound.) In the end, I made the choice best for husband, daughter, and myself. I honestly tried to help niece/nephew but sister refused to hear my needs and compromise the proposed plan to meet the needs. She wanted me and brother to take the financial loss, instead of her and her husband sparing us and taking a bigger financial loss. Sounds like we all decided to do what was best for our own interests in the end. We will split the house evenly, which is what the trust states and what is right and fair.

[Blueberry Pancakes]

I am sorry for the loss of your parents. At such a time, I think there is a great opportunity for a sibling to show proof of healthy relationship behaviors such as collaborating with you, being open to options, and supporting a mutually beneficial solution. I think with some siblings though, what is more important to them is they get to use a situation where they can have a "win" and they think they can only do it if someone else loses. Actually, I think sometimes they get fueled by seeing others struggling from something in which they gained. It is a source of drama, supply, and it can be really enticing for some people. 

I also sort of wonder if some siblings feel entitled as adults because as children there was a pattern where we always just gave in to keep the peace and they expect it as normal. Some of these patterns get passed down to the next generation. (My sister's kids who I rarely even see seem to go out of their way to be deliberately dismissive of me.)       
         
I think it is kind of sad if parents relate to their kids as a friend and convey interpersonal details which some kids, or even young adults, would not yet have the capacity to fully grasp. The kid can sometimes think it is a compliment that their parent is treating them like an equal. It makes them feel grown up. In reality, I think the parent is off-loading too much and it can make the child feel somewhat responsible to carry the burden of their parent's emotions. My mom did that to me as a little kid and she still does, and I can't stand it. I sort of think it is also a way in which the parent gets their kid's perception to align with their own views. 

I do not think you owe it to anyone, young kids or adults, to sacrifice your needs for their benefit. It is alright to advocate for yourself. You seem clear in what you have conveyed to your siblings which I think is all very good. I will be hoping you find a resolve that works for you and for everyone.   

[Starboard Song]

Lesson #1: Never ever leave assets like a house or car as a joint bequest.

I have never ever seen the joint bequest of a home work unless the siblings agreed at once to sell it and divide the proceeds. I've seen nothing else work.


Lesson #2: There is no such thing as just having an extra house lying around: your sister is giving away the cash value of rent, period. If y'all aren't going to sell, you should be getting rent from someone.

This house will only ever have value for you when it is sold, and that has been true since the moment it went vacant. I have zero idea how the law handles a situation where a home is owned by several people. But I'd suggest you propose the house be put on the market at once. When everyone has gotten their proceeds, each is free to subsidize rent for anyone they choose. If asking doesn't work, changing the verb to demand doesn't really do any good: I have no idea what legal recourse any one party has if the other's won't agree to sell.

But this is just unfortunate. I know of another case where the mom divided her financial assets equally between siblings, but gave the house to one son. That son then proceeded to use her cash, before she died, to fix up the house really nice for him. So she died nearly broke and he got everything.

Good luck.

[Solong]

Lesson #1: Never ever leave assets like a house or car as a joint bequest.

I have never ever seen the joint bequest of a home work unless the siblings agreed at once to sell it and divide the proceeds. I've seen nothing else work.


Lesson #2: There is no such thing as just having an extra house lying around: your sister is giving away the cash value of rent, period. If y'all aren't going to sell, you should be getting rent from someone.

This house will only ever have value for you when it is sold, and that has been true since the moment it went vacant. I have zero idea how the law handles a situation where a home is owned by several people. But I'd suggest you propose the house be put on the market at once. When everyone has gotten their proceeds, each is free to subsidize rent for anyone they choose. If asking doesn't work, changing the verb to demand doesn't really do any good: I have no idea what legal recourse any one party has if the other's won't agree to sell.

But this is just unfortunate. I know of another case where the mom divided her financial assets equally between siblings, but gave the house to one son. That son then proceeded to use her cash, before she died, to fix up the house really nice for him. So she died nearly broke and he got everything.

Good luck.

Yes. We ultimately said no. I was the total scapegoat in the end- niece and nephew were even "mad" at me. Basically, sister was having conversations with them and then conversations with brother and I. Whatever she told niece and nephew led them to believe it was a done deal. At the same time, she was ignoring my requests to sign a contract; My husband assures they should be mad at their mom/MIL bc she's the one who screwed it up. She didn't want to sign a contract with me where she took a loss if it depreciated. She just want us to look the other way and anticipate that it wouldn't depreciate and when it inevitably did that we would just split the loss with her.

What a mess.

Regarding the scapegoat. My sister is very unhealthy. She has a lot of baggage that frankly, is so reminiscent of my mom's old stuff that I worked decades in therapy to shed. I realized that I was giving her too much power over me. And I was being triggered into my old anxious attachment patterns with my mom. I am done with that. My parents are dead, and while I miss them, I don't miss the baggage they brought. Why would I want to deeply engage with someone who still carries that weight and triggers it for me? I don't. I was also giving Niece/nephew too much power over me. I feared they would reject me. When in actuality, they will or they won't. If they do, that's pretty silly and I then realize our relationship was contingent on me sacrificing myself for them. No thanks. And if they don't reject me and find a way to overcome it, then they learned I'm not to be pushed around. Sounds like saying no was a win win for me. Finally, there are things I could tell niece/nephew to set it all straight and stop being the scapegoat. Instead, I'll choose to just let it be. I know the truth. <<<<<<<< this is a monumental realization and shift for me. I honestly think I'm now able to make it *because* my parents, the origin of the dysfunctional cycle, are dead.

Thank you for listening.

[xredshoesx]

solong i am 100% behind your boundary-

in our situation after dear FIL passed uPD MIL told her kids she was taking turns living with between 3 of the 4  children she speaks to....

i was like m'am you don't get to decide that you live in my house, it got SUPER ugly and she didn't speak to me for a span of two thanksgivings...

i had to be the bad guy to protect the peace i fought for in my own home.  i'd do it again.  and again.  and as many times as necessary to protect me and DH from her shennanigans.

[Solong]

solong i am 100% behind your boundary-

in our situation after dear FIL passed uPD MIL told her kids she was taking turns living with between 3 of the 4  children she speaks to....

i was like m'am you don't get to decide that you live in my house, it got SUPER ugly and she didn't speak to me for a span of two thanksgivings...


Oh gosh, redshoes- your actual own home? She just assumed? Yikes.

Thank you to you and thank you all for the responses. It really helped me gain clarity and regain my center in this. Being scapegoated is a major trigger for me and I was spun.

i had to be the bad guy to protect the peace i fought for in my own home.  i'd do it again.  and again.  and as many times as necessary to protect me and DH from her shennanigans.

[LemonLime]

I have reflected a lot on trying to explain (internally) how people develop "a sense of entitlement" in the context of PDs, as I have an older sibling like this.

I came to the conclusion that its based on:

1. Years of accummulated familial dysfunction which makes them highly reactive and insecure.  This usually means having highly critical parents which damages their self-confidence leading to a lot of under-achievement (strictly speaking this is not the fault of the child - it is the parents and their behaviors.  But the child is the one that gets severely damaged).

2. NPD/BPD (this is correlated to (1)) personality tendencies.

3. A sense of internal bitterness that their life has not progressed according to their "expectation".   They are never happy about their current position in life because they constantly compare themselves to others for their own internal validation.   This causes them to be in a proverbial hamster wheel of near constant unhappines.

4. They will also tend to think in terms of "my loss is your gain" (type of mentality) and vice-versa.  So, if your parents helped you out on occasion growing up, she will have likely resented you for this.  Likewise, any achievement you may have had that she did not get (or did worse in), would generate more resentment.

Essentially, an individual like this can only be happy (or even neutral) for you if she feels she is in a superior life (financial & achievement) position vs you.  If they get the feeling this is not the case at any point (which can happen quite suddenly. It doesnt take much) they will do whatever it takes (no matter how bizarre, unfair, and under-handed in your view) to make you lose something for their own benefit.

You haven't spoken about your life growing up with your parents, but if you truly want to understand the WHY of your sister being the way she is, I would reflect on her interactions with your parents.     That can usually help in understanding the bulk of her current behaviors.   Easier to protect yourself in the future as well if you have a better understanding of these behaviors.

Oh my gosh you NAILED IT!  You have encapsulated the main dysfunctions of PDs, I do believe.  Like you, I have spent a lot of time trying to figure them OUT.  I don't know why I want to know, but I do.....what makes them tick?  I'm just so curious.  Thanks for this.  It allows my mind to rest.

Also I've noticed that my PD sib is immediately interested in "sitting with me" if I'm upset about someone or something (as long as that someone is not HER).  She loves to comfort me, and offer sisterly advice, and reassure me that I am good and worthy of being treated kindly.  And that life is not FAIR, to me or to her.  And why are people so AWFUL, Lemonlime?     She's seemingly so in my corner, although it's a bit "much" for me.  Like, she's too reassuring, too righteously indignant on my behalf.   Like she's more upset than even I am about the situation.
But, oh my gosh, the minute she gets a whiff of me setting a boundary against HER, oh my gosh, watch out!!  The claws and sharp teeth are just below the surface and she whips them out in nothing flat.  To tear me to shreds mercilessly and without remorse.   Yikes.

[Maxtrem]

I've experienced it the other way around. My uncle passed away several years ago and the family immediately thought of selling his house to my narcissistic cousin at a ridiculous price, like a third of the market value.

Of course, my cousin has no credit or money, so no bank would give him a mortgage. Eventually the family rented the house to him for half the value of the rent. And in all of this, no one in the family had ever thought of me buying the house... It wasn't very fair 

As a result, 7 years later this champion is often late on the rent and at one point he owed more than 6 months of rent and didn't pay the electricity anymore (his mother had to pay for him).

The only time I was considered by family to buy the house was when the cousin owed 6 months rent and everyone was stressed with the situation. Of course, today I own 10 addresses and land, so I have no interest other than to buy this house to destroy it and build appartement on the land 

In short, the other nephews/nieces might feel aggrieved in this kind of situation...

[Andeza]

I'm just going to echo what Starboard posted. Nobody should ever leave a house, property, etc, to multiple children. Discussions and agreements ought to be made before the parents pass. If the children desire to keep the property in the family, someone should be given to option to "buy out" the other siblings, with knowledge ahead of time so that they can save for that eventuality. Otherwise the estate ought to require the sale of the property and splitting of the assets equally.

That said, good for you Solong! Pushing for the sale was the right move!  That house would have been a millstone around ALL your necks for the next decade otherwise.

Now as for the why on behavior. I've turned it over for a while now and I'm kinda made peace with the idea that PD individuals walk around with blinders on. They do not see the damage they cause, the inconveniences to others, etc. They only see their own needs. They don't even register that others have needs or take the thought seriously. Also, nobody has problems as big as their own...

[Solong]

Good thing I only have one child, so I won't have to worry about these issues for her!

The stipulations you recommended "buy out", etc., we're all things I recommended to my sister. I told her she could buy us out, get an appraiser and write a contract to absorb any financial loss (from time her kid spent in home while home depreciates)- she simply said, no thank you or brushed it off.  Meanwhile, she was seemingly telling her kid/in law that it was likely they could move in during the 5-6 weeks it took for all this to come to a head, so when I pressed harder on my request again leading to an inevitable "no" (bc she wouldn't even consider my needs or my proposal to meet those needs). Then, her kid/nephew were *mad at me* bc they thought I strung them along. 

In short, my sister screwed up a lot of things here. And I took the heat. Nephew called to "olive branch" and told me "if we weren't family I would distance from you, but I forgive you".  What a sh** show. I just let it go and didn't clarify the details for him. I'll just take some distance myself. No problem, buddy. 

[Pepin]

I know I am late to this conversation but I hope the house has sold and everyone is moving on.  I would have to agree with Starboard Song that leaving a home to more than one person can and will cause divisiveness unless there is the stipulation that the house be sold upon death - of which an attorney would have to handle in advance and the executor of the will would carry out unless it is a TOD scenario that some states allow (?).  But yes, death often and sadly causes divisiveness.  I literally want everything dispersed and spoken for before I die if I can help it so that my children never have to squabble with each other.  I'd sell and property and rent just to make sure....but that's just me.  DPD CN MIL recently passed and omg what a mess - and I'm shell shocked.  And she knew exactly what she was doing, too.  Just awful. 

[daughter]

This sort of situation, clearly to occur also in my FOO, propelled me to preemptively choose NC w both my npd-enmeshed parents and GC "princess" nsis, my overtly-favored only sibling.  Me, I was the obviously disfavored SG "dutiful daughter", req'd to be "useful", subservient, and ultimately disinherited anyways.

Dysfunctional families can be incredibly cruel, if not just undeniably mean and self-centered.  I think I know how you feel, sorry you experienced this.