disclosing health and food issues with MIL,

[bee well]

Hi All,

It's been a while since I have posted but I keep reading and it's always encouraging and uplifting  to see the interactions here. whether it be people courageously reaching out, or those who offer support in thoughtful, heartful ways. Thank you.

So, I have recently done some tests and I have learned that I need to pay strict attention to my diet.

We will be going to visit Inlaw family next month and I am a bit worried because MIL is very insistent about diet, in the sense that she is offended when one does not eat everything that is offered. She gets angry to the point that she will put more  things on the plate after we have said thank you, no more.

To complicate things is that I have never told her about my health issues, because I do not want them to be the source of gossip or to have her ask me constantly about it.

She has her own health issues and talks about it a lot during phone calls. In my opinion she is not accepting her reality because she continues to eat things that are not good for her condition, and then complains about the results. (Important to emphasize here that it's not my business what she eats, it's the excessive complaining about relative problems that I have an issue with.)

Last phone call she told me about the nice things she had prepared for the family but that she could only eat certain vegetables, but was too tired to prepare them after all she had done to cook for the others, and so could not eat.

I listen to this and sometimes feel resentful because I do not talk about me, or anything health related. (This is part of my greyrocking, when asked about me I am vague.) I limit the phone calls, but they are part of my life.

I feel like I am in a double bind here...if I don't tell her about my health I will stuff down emotions, and continuously encounter difficult social situations. On the other hand I do not want to tell her because this will give her supply, as she is morbid and gets very excited and excessively involved with other people's problems, especially health. She appears to thrive on it.

DH asks me, well are you going to keep your health problems to your self forever?  I told him that unless it is grave, yes I will. He understands  and will keep my privacy because he knows his mother but on the other hand thinks it is not feasible to be evasive forever.

DH says she will understand because she also has health problems. I say not so fast. I know, what happens to MIL is not relative to the way she treats others... He goes in and Out of the FOG, although thankfully mostly out these days.

I am not looking for a solution to this as I know that as long as MIL is in my life I will be dealing with the issue, but I am curious to hear about others' experiences.

Have any of you had similar dynamics? How do you approach the situation?

I

[Cat of the Canals]

I haven't dealt with the diet thing in particular, but I have concealed health issues from my own PDmom. Because I only have limited contact with PDmil, I didn't originally conceal (or insist my husband do so) those things from her, and that was a big mistake. She became quite obsessed and tried to insert herself into it at every turn. She literally invited herself to my surgery! Husband told her, "No." Then she called up the day after surgery and wanted to visit. Husband told her, "We don't really want guests right now." She says she wouldn't be a guest, she'd be a helper. (HA!) Still no. When we finally did allow her to visit, she tried to invite herself to my follow-up doctor's appointment. Invasive beyond belief. Oh! And the entire time leading up to my surgery -- which included a biopsy that was thankfully negative -- she kept telling my husband (and probably everyone else) that she "just KNEW it was cancer." She could "feel" it. 

Lesson learned. She is now on a very strict info diet when it comes to anything health-related, but so far nothing really has come up, thankfully. Long story short, I totally understand your dilemma.

If I were in your position, I'd go in planning to say, "No, thank you!" and "No potatoes (or whatever) for me, please!" as often as necessary. If she insists on putting those things on your plate anyway, the food waste that ensues is her problem. If she doesn't want food to get thrown away without being eaten, she should respect people's wishes.

Or you could always try to come up with a very boring, Medium Chill statement that can cover all of the "food discussion" bases. Something like, "I've been having some indigestion/allergy issues lately, so I'm not eating ____ or ____." If that feels like too much of a white lie, you could take a step closer to the truth. "My doctor has told me to avoid eating ____." If she wants more info, you say, "Oh I won't bore you with the details." and change the subject. She is not entitled to know the specifics and any demand on her part is actually quite rude. Don't be afraid to be vague and to redirect with things like, "Everything is fine, I'm just not eating dairy right now. Wow, is that new wallpaper in the living room?"

You can do this.

[bee well]

Hi Cat of the Canals,

What you have described is a likely scenario for me if I went ahead and told MIL what I am going through.

You wrote; "She became quite obsessed and tried to insert herself into it at every turn. She literally invited herself to my surgery! Husband told her, "No." Then she called up the day after surgery and wanted to visit. Husband told her, "We don't really want guests right now." She says she wouldn't be a guest, she'd be a helper. (HA!) Still no. When we finally did allow her to visit, she tried to invite herself to my follow-up doctor's appointment. Invasive beyond belief. Oh! And the entire time leading up to my surgery -- which included a biopsy that was thankfully negative -- she kept telling my husband (and probably everyone else) that she "just KNEW it was cancer." She could "feel" it. "

I'm sorry you had to deal with that inappropriate and intrusive behavior. And no filter, one would think she could have kept those thoughts and feelings to herself.  I would have been very stressed and worried by that. I'm glad to hear your biospy was negative.   

Our MILs do appear to have a similar personality.

My MIL has also been know to show up uninvited "to give help" to people who haven't asked for it. At the hospital, ecc., when people are ill she stops by to check, does not call first. She even goes to sweep the plots at the cemetery. (Which , in itself is a sort of "volunteer work." But she does it without asking. Kind of like, she will do it, as in her view the family members do not take enough interest. She tells us this.)

She inserts herself into everything. and when she gets info, she will not let go of it. When she hears new stuff about people she'll call other family members to talk about it, and even tells the shopkeepers and people she runs into doing the rounds in town, I don't want my private life to be the subject of those conversations.

Her comments about my weight loss were very disconcerting  to me as I was/am going through a difficult time and do not need that  voice of alarm in my head. Who knows what she had to say about that, not in my presence.

Anyway, yeah, I'm just going to go on broken record. Grey rock and MC.  Before I leave I might let her know I my stomach is "off" and cannot eat as much as I'd like, and certain foods are off limits. That way she may not prepare mountains of food. She might do it anyway but I cannot do anything about it. Fortunately DH will gladly eat his share, and shower MIL with praise for her cooking. (Some of it is actually really good! More for him...)

I'm just going to have to put it in my head that it might not be all pleasant conversation but involving her in my private life is an invitation for problems.

Who knows, this time she might have one of her good days. (There's that old intermittent reinforcement.) Usually it's that way at the beginning, by the third day or fourth day all bets are off, some kind of a scene erupts, and we are glad to go home. Then she will cry because we are leaving.

What I need to accept is that I will hear her go on about her health,  I cannot confide in her about mine.  No amount of magical thinking will change that. (In the past I have been fooled when she was having a "good day" and let private things slip, which she latched onto. Big mistake. Not one I want to repeat.

She may continue to break food boundaries--breaking boundaries is her specialty... but I am not required to eat everything she puts on my plate, just to appease her. My health is more important, and it's not my job to keep her happy.

Thanks for your response Cat of the Canals. I know what to do but sometimes doubt comes in. It really helps to hear from someone who has similar issues.

Have a good day!

[feralcat]

I suppose I've got a similar- ish thing, with both FOO and ILs unfortunately.
I have had Long Covid for 2 years now. Because of the novelty of the condition , and the indecision re what it was, I haven't broadcast it.
I did tell my M and a couple of siblings. As usual ...nada. M said I'd be ok, I was young (64 then) ....not like herrr.

Tbh , apart from the total lack of support ever, it's always a Catch 22 if you do mention anything because then they can turn it round to themselves. Do you have X y z - oh you do, so you'll understand how bad it is for
meeee
Or they totally ignore you, as though you've said nothing.

So now I think ...Wotever. The less they know, the more boring I am, the less they want to ring up and rant/ moan/ look for sympathy. Bonus !
Grey rock is your friend. Good luck.

[bee well]

Hi feralcat,

Sorry to hear you have been dealing with Long Covid- That is tough. Where I live there are many people who are in denial about it. (We are at the point where many see "it" as just a flu, for those people precautions go to the wind No comment.)

I can see why you would not broadcast it in any case. Health in general is a difficult topic but when we are dealing with that in addition to misunderstandings about said health issues, plus others' potentially unstable reactions. privacy is better.

Then yes, there is the aspect of, well " you are relatively young what would you have to complain about." That, and having the conversation turned around to "what about mee."  Sheessh! Yep, greyrock is our friend. It's in our best interests to remember that.

[Cat of the Canals]

Before I leave I might let her know I my stomach is "off" and cannot eat as much as I'd like, and certain foods are off limits.

This is perfect!

And I think we have the same MIL. Mine also goes around town telling every random bank teller and cashier other people's business. We didn't realize this until recently, so I can only imagine how many strangers heard about my supposed cancer. 

[Call Me Cordelia]

Ho boy. I'm so sorry this is such a difficult setup. I don't know what the food situation is for your entire visit, but I think taking care of what you need to eat, off stage, as it were, as much as reasonable, and then repeating, "No thank you," really ought to be sufficient.

The behavior of putting things onto your plate is really beyond the pale. You are a grown woman, not a preschooler who has to eat her vegetables before dessert. You have every right to hold up your arm to block her approaching ladle, and fling any food put on it against your will straight into the garbage. I would not even give the satisfaction of a "sensitive stomach." No is a complete sentence. You cannot eat this. The end. MIL would be the one making it an issue, not you. I'd be prepared to leave if that boundary is crossed more than once, personally.

[bee well]

Hi Call me Cordelia,

Putting food on others' plates without permission--beyond the pale is right. She treats everyone in the family as if they were children. Her sons and 70+ enH included.  It's embarassing to witness. The Sons stand up to her but enH pretty much just takes it all in, and then blows up and says and does inappropriate stuff down the line (which sadly, puts him right back in the role of shamed child.)

Before I started coming Out of the FOG I endured a lot of things I should have not put up with. I am setting my boundaries and I get pushback now that I am different. It's been a big help for me now that I am learning to say my piece, and protect my interests when necessary, and then let her react however she will, and not start fawning and jadeing. It's still uncomfortable for me though.

I definitely won't be eating to appease, and will make sure I have what I need to take care of my self.

The food issue is  just one of many toxic behaviours, and control freakery, that create an environment where there is a lot of eggshell walking. A lot of it is very passive aggressive and goes on when she and I are alone together.

DH and I now have an agreement that he doesn't leave me alone with her.

They live in a rural area, quite far from where we live, so it's hard to get up and leave without a big to do but we have talked about that and have not ruled it out as a future option.

Thus far we have always preferred to "get through" the visit to avoid an even "larger scene" by leaving earlier than expected. Most times there is some sort of a blow out during the visit (not necessarily between us, but in the family) sometimes not. We no longer go there with false hope. ("Like oh, she's been nice on the phone these days, maybe it'll all go smoothly." Not!)

On the third day of our visit we usually schedule an activity just for DH and I, to give some space, as it is usually on the third day that her mood takes a turn for the worse. i never stay much longer. DH visits  as he likes, when he likes. Sometimes by himself That's his choice and it suits me.

Cat of the Canals, it's awful that they feed off of spreading around personal information. I can only imagine how uncomfortable the lack of empathy and respect felt as you were dealing with the possibiltiy of a cancer diagnosis. It's so wrong.

I have sometimes had the sensation we have the same MIL when I would read different posts of yours...There appears to be a lot of them made from the same mold. Its as if there were a bunch of PD ingredients that get mixed, baked in and there you have it. Geography seems to have little to do with it. These people are everywhere, At least know that we know, when possibile, we can take measures avoid being blindsided. I used to get blindsided a lot, before I started dismantling my fantasy family bonds, and working on me.

Getting through this next visit  without ruminating about it is a challenge. Trying to bear in mind that I need to direct my thought to self care, and away from MIL who will be the way she is, regardless.


Thanks again y'all for the feedback and suggestions.

[treesgrowslowly]

I am sorry you are facing this bee well.

Food is a common 'go to' for manipulative family members. I've seen it over and over and over.

What you describe is not actually about food, it is about power. It could just as well be "you all have to watch MY tv show with me" or "you all have to attend THIS event with me during the visit".

Of course, when someone pushes food on you it is 'effective' because it is more subtle than if she had a tantrum about people not watching her tv show with her. 

Puts food on your plate for you! I agree, totally beyond the pale!

Make no mistake about it, narcissistic people look for these subtle ways to exert control. Your MIL has likely always been like this. She has found ways to deny how people are feeling. It confuses people, which is what narcissism does to us, it confuses us. We want to think oh this person cares about me and wants me to enjoy this meal / snack. Because that is what WE would like to believe.

I've seen it all in these dysfunctional families. Parents who deny their adult children food when they are hungry, adults who push food on other adults, relatives who insist on people eating a specific portion of each item at the family dinner...its all so toxic.

Knowing that there is someone in the family who won't respect your own diet and health based food decisions, is stressful. There is no doubt. Thank goodness you are thinking ahead to how she is going to behave. We all know here that people who have pushed food on us before during visits, are likely to do it again.

Like Cat said, you are a grown adult. No one needs to be in charge of your food like as if you are a toddler!

However you find to grey rock during this visit, all the hats off to you for it. We get it. I've seen plenty of family members push food on each other during visits. It can be exhausting. So glad there is an agreement that you don't have to be alone with her!

Trees

[bee well]

Thanks for your reply, trees.

I agree with you--it's all about control. She cannot stand differences, they irk her. Diet, ways of doing and seeing things.

For a while she would do this thing where she would actually take a piece of her food and put it on another's plate. "This is so good, you have to try it." (Bad hygiene in all--yecchh-- but fortunately that happened before COVID.) We nipped that in the bud, but I expect she will be up to her "stuff" in one way or another.

The table is often a battleground. I also think lots of people with uNtraits like to cause scenes at the table. It's not only bad for social reasons but also, it turns the stomach in knots, and I'd surmise can cause some unhealthy attitudes about eating.

The table is a place to enjoy food and conversation, not pick at, and interrogate each other.

It's funny you mentioned television programs. There are arguments about which show to watch when we are eating. In my home we prefer to eat without tv, but the tv during meals in their home is their preference. Irespect that.Fewer arguments about the viewing choices would be nice though.

It really is toxic but at times it seems so absurd it makes me laugh (rarely but it does have that effect).

I had to deal with these types of things in my own FOO, I was forced to sit at the table for hours until I ate all my food, or found a way to get it off my plate.

We will definitely have our strategy clear before we go up there.

Anyway, thanks all for reading and writing . The support  is much appreciated and motivates me to stand up for my rights, and boundaries in general.

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi Bee Well,

I am glad that you are sometimes able to just see the absurdity in this type of behaviour (out of grown adults!).

Yes - the thing about coming Out of the FOG is we realize there are people who are like this, and we can learn to see it for what it is. The truth is that standing up for yourself with her, it might not go very far - compared to how well it will go in a healthy relationship with a health person in your life. That is the real key to happiness. We can' change the uNPD's in our lives. What we can do, is hopefully, spend less time around them, and then shift back to places where we are respected and we don't have to fight people on our basic rights!

For those of us with uNPD family members, it is important to find places where there are no narcissists trying to run the show!

I totally agree with you, boundaries are the key to feeling good about how we have chosen to live and what choose to eat.

Trees

[Cat of the Canals]

You know, it didn't occur to me until reading this thread that at some point through the years, my PDmil also appointed herself Plate Supervisor. When we used to go there for dinner, they would pass dishes around the "usual" way. But somewhere along the way, PDmil stopped doing this and began filling everyone's plate herself. Sometimes there are ten people (all adults), and she insists on filling a plate for every single person. It didn't occur to me that this was a control thing, but it must be. I've literally never witnessed anyone else do this. It's certainly not efficient.

[bee well]

Hi trees,

This is so sooo true: "
For those of us with uNPD family members, it is important to find places where there are no narcissists trying to run the show!"

Hi Cat of the Canals,

In some households  it's customary that who cooks usually puts the food on the plates, and might ask for some help serving, but it's also customary to ask how much that person wants, and  respect when people decline or don't want to eat more.

I agree: "family style" is an efficient way  : each one takes what they want, no problem, no anger because for whatever preference one didn't want to partake in someone else's "special" dish.

And wow, 10 plates! It would make much more sense to just let people serves themselves (or ask for some help?)I don't know your MIL but it could go along with the attitude of poor me I had to serve all of the plates while y'all just sat there (martyr.)