Out of the Blue, Such a Surprise 🧐

[bloomie]

Recently, DH was hoover maneuvered into a no win, zero sum position by his sly and manipulative, highly enmeshed, disordered mother/sister dynamic duo.

It went a bit like this... mil and sil plan an outing that would be "just the 3 of them" attending with tickets already secured before asking DH so they can have time as a "family" to "visit" which happens to have a high visibility factor in our community. Vague I know, but for confidentiality sake that's as much detail as I can give.

Big bang for their buck if DH attends with them - showing allegiance and solidarity with them without me or anyone in our family included, or if he doesn't attend it validates the narrative of his unforgiving, rejecting, hurtful behaviors toward his sister that have been circulating for YEARS.

This kind of thing crops up from time to time and each time DH declines. He has asked his mother to stop doing this and told her he will not be cooperating with these set ups. She tantrums and insists she is devastated that her children do not get along and is just her trying to get them together to reconcile (more likely wants them to get together publicly to show she has brought them in line and her family is the picture perfect one she requires). It ends up being a cluster of the first order with mil carrying on for weeks and behaving verbally and emotionally abusively toward DH.  Eventually we have a trip to the ER for some kind of phantom condition - usually right in the middle or slightly before a significant event in our family's life.

What's different this time is DH chose to decline directly to uHPD/NPD sister. He also chose to very kindly and directly address why he is declining since she has insisted she has absolutely no idea why he doesn't want to be close or spend time with her - most importantly he addressed the continued slander and attacks upon his character, mine, and those of our adult children and how divisive and damaging all of this is for their mother and for any relationship they may have once had.

Sil is shocked, surprised, this is hitting her out of the blue, she just loves him so much and can't believe that he is insisting on dragging up things from the past that she has moved on from, has forgiven us all for, and she denies having ever slandered him or our family. She just wants to have lunch - just the two of them - as often as possible to focus on the good things, connect, enjoy each other's company, share a warm hug. 

Several back and forth communications later DH is still kindly standing his ground - he doesn't want to rehash the past, but deal with the present that he cannot meet and rug sweep and pretend that all of the nonsense is not going on behind the scenes. He has simply asked for an acknowledgment of the harm done with her ever running, lying tongue (my words, not his) and an agreement to speak respectfully to and of each other going forward, talk directly with one another if there is an issue that needs to be resolved, an agreement to behave honorably toward one another is needed in order to have any closer level of contact.

But... that would involve sil taking responsibility for her behaviors that DH has made clear are hurting him and harming their potential to build a better relationship that ended with DH saying that since his sister has denied her choices and refuses to take responsibility for them this is the last time he will communicate with her attempting to work through these issues.

As is the usual pattern, mil began with the condemnation and demands that DH explain himself and her poor daughter is damned if she does and damned if she doesn't in the situation. FOR THE FIRST TIME DH handed over every one of the communications between he and his sister and said..."read these and then we can talk about this".

I was shocked as he does not defend himself or share his communications with others as a rule, but from where I stand in all of it, this was loooooonnnnng overdue as mil has heard pretty much just one side of this for years. DH's choice to make and one that has been very hard to bear witness to for me.

DH's mom read through quietly and looked at my DH and said something like... "I will never pressure you again and will not meddle anymore."

And DH, in his usual less is more style, left it there. And guess where he ended up a few days later... taking his mom to the ER for a new and sudden onset phantom issue and guess who has a very big event coming up in their lives? We do. 

[bee well]

Hi Bloomie,

The double bind, pulling the heartstrings, gaslighting and rug sweeping for appearances sake, the ER trick. I could go on...

Good on your DH for telling it like it is.

"I will never  -X-again, but then before you know it, it happens again."

And SIL with the "who, innocent me.?" Oh, please...

Sounds "familiar..."

These toxic folks never give up, do they?

Coming to MIL's aid is what many if most would do, but I think it's important that he stands up to them when he does, and as he has. (With these phantom issues, it's another double bind, ugh!) IMHO they will try to take it as far as they can because that's what they do, but I think  in the back of their head it registers that DH has stood up to them. Maybe in some other occasions they will think twice?

Perhaps I am trying to make sense of something that has no logic.

I am sorry you are dealing with this when something important for you and DH have an big event on the horizon. A silver lining is that you and DH are a united front and he knows what's up with the toxic "dynamic duo."

I hope all goes well with your upcoming event....

[bloomie]

bee well - thank you so much for your supportive reply. I am really proud of my DH for finally making clear the wide eyed, innocent position his sibling has taken throughout when his mother knows first hand she, for one, has had her ear filled with all kinds of nonsense for years. Maybe, something finally sunk in? I'm not counting on it, but it would be a relief for the manipulative dance to end right here and now.

As the usual pattern, after much drama and enlisting a medical flying monkey to contact my DH with a 'diagnosis' he gathered (not qualified to diagnose and this from seeing her briefly, no access to medical records or findings) - all tests show nothing of note related to the physical complaints. 

DH looked at me today in response to the drama-bound attention seeking medical hoover, the timing involved and said: "Why did it take me so long to recognize how far my mother will go with all of this?" 😳

My reply was simple and something like: "I have no idea." Rope. Dropped. 

[Cat of the Canals]

she just loves him so much and can't believe that he is insisting on dragging up things from the past that she has moved on from, has forgiven us all for...

Ahh yes, the old "I've moved on, why can't you?" routine. I think it's the first rule in the Rugsweeper's Code.

Congrats to your husband for taking this step -- it sounds like it was a big one and a long time coming. It seems like the next step is going to be coming to terms with the role his mother plays in this whole mess.

[bloomie]

Thanks for your insights and support, Cat. 🥰

I am finding each day more and more of a weight lifted after DH has taken this step in spite of any push back that may come. My hope is that DH will experience the same relief and be able to come to terms with the part his mother has played for so long.

What is more and more clear to me over time with all of this is the cumulative damage that can come to us from living with the inevitable disruption to our happy lives hanging over our heads. It has taken an incredible toll, and I am seeing that more clearly the further I get from the toxic shame, punishment paradigm, looking for a villain atmosphere that undergirds DH's family belief system. Looking for someone or something to blame, pointing out flaws and the human frailty of others, magnifying perceived slights into unforgivable offenses, and disqualifying others for understanding, empathy, acceptance and grace based on superficial, unloving, judgmental narrowly defined criteria is just awful to be around. 

I have said this to my DH many times.. my own disordered family was hard, but I would've not survived the atmosphere he grew up with because it is a daily kind of gaslighting. Placid and Cleaver-like on the outside with everyone all buttoned up and lined up in a perfect row, but inside, nothing and no one was ever good enough.

It has taken a long time for my DH to truly 'end' the relationship with his sister and close that door, in part I think because he understands her struggles from that inside view. I have been challenged to stay in my lane and distancing myself in relationship with my in law family as much as possible and give him the time and space he needs to figure this out, while still being honest and clear about my take on things and my boundaries and needs. 

At the end of the day, this decision is his and his alone to make, but one that impacts us both. It's so tricky to navigate this.

I was reading today in my quiet time that evil flows from a root of bitterness. It has been my number one priority to search my heart and recognize and uproot any bitterness. I have failed at times in that and have had such disgusted and angry seasons I am not proud of, but ultimately, I am determined to guard the love and connection I have with my DH and to continue to trust I have the strength to choose respectful interactions when they are called for with mil and sil.

I do think things are going to heat up in the coming months challenging both DH and myself to stay Out of the FOG.

[bee well]

Hi Bloomie,

I really appreciate what you share here. So much resonates in what you write.

Here's how:

Not so long ago I had a conversation with MIL after which DH had a realization that things I had been saying about MILs behaviour and treatment of me were true, that I was not exaggerating (He says he knew but not fully until he heard the tones she uses when she and I speak alone...)

I felt glad he had this epiphany after all this time, what a relief! I also felt like what, how long did it take to figure this out? Okayyy, really? Trying not to judge him for this. It took me quite awhile to get an inkling of what happened in my FOO and how that contributed to how I am now, and assorted personal behaviours I am working on bettering. In essence, Working on the fallout, as we know, is a long endeavour.

In some ways things have  gotten better after we started deeper conversations about the situations that got us to where we are but in a way it's more tense since these things have come to light. I am also dealing with going into other layers of my past. He tries to understand but it is not his responsabilty to make logic of the mess in my FOO. What a combination! 

I am not sure you or anyone reading here has ever had had this feeling: both my DH and I are survivors and I feel like our families are in our marriage due to our trauma responses. I am becoming more aware of my resentment of this. MIL is an intrusion in our lives but I know it is not for me to decide what path he takes with her, It's hard to stand by and it's like walking a tightrope. As many of us have come to know, the only behaviour we can truly change is our own.

DH started coming Out of the FOG and he tells me  that I need to have patience. I know that is true but sometimes it seems like an excuse. I'm frustrated and I think he is too.

My latest realization is that we both have a trauma bond with his family. I have gone from one trauma bond to another, from my family to his.

I can distance from his FOO to a point now that I have had a reckoning with mine  but his trauma bond is much much harder to break due to certain ties I did not have. And obviously, it is his family.

Then there is the fact that he has been, importantly, supportive through my own family ordeal. I think there is an underlying idea in my mind that as his wife I must reciprocate, It's hard to not to feel guilty about that when I want to get as far away as I can from MIL.

MIL is likely to remain in our lives forever, for reasons I cannot explain here NC is not an option at this time.

Maybe that's ok--after all that happen with the hive of uNs and assorted PDs in my family it's easier to face up to the issues  described here. It's life practice, maybe.

Sometimes I want to throw up my hands but I am stubborn and after I have learned what I know now I refuse to succumb. Still working on why I feel that way.

Coming back, I'm really glad you have compassion for your husband, Bloomie.  I think the things you have in common may at times make things difficult but perhaps there are things between you that others could not understand.

A key theme here is patience. We all grow at are own rates and sometimes we coincide. It's great when we can meet in the middle.

The fact that conversations about these things are occurring more commonly is huge. So many of us come from families in which it was unheard of and that is why we are here now... TBC...

[bloomie]

Hi Bloomie,

I really appreciate what you share here. So much resonates in what you write.

Here's how:

Not so long ago I had a conversation with MIL after which DH had a realization that things I had been saying about MILs behaviour and treatment of me were true, that I was not exaggerating (He says he knew but not fully until he heard the tones she uses when she and I speak alone...)

I felt glad he had this epiphany after all this time, what a relief! I also felt like what, how long did it take to figure this out? Okayyy, really? Trying not to judge him for this. It took me quite awhile to get an inkling of what happened in my FOO and how that contributed to how I am now, and assorted personal behaviours I am working on bettering. In essence, Working on the fallout, as we know, is a long endeavour.

In some ways things have  gotten better after we started deeper conversations about the situations that got us to where we are but in a way it's more tense since these things have come to light. I am also dealing with going into other layers of my past. He tries to understand but it is not his responsabilty to make logic of the mess in my FOO. What a combination! 

bee well - both DH and myself are what I have heard described as double winners in the disordered family bingo game, so I can understand so well what you describe. The time it takes to fully realize the big picture and damage that is being done by family members.

I am so thankful your own DH sees through to the truth of it all. It is such a relief when there is an ability for each of us to see clearly the atmosphere we were shaped by before we had any awareness of how truly toxic and limiting it could be. I can say that for me... at a VERY young age I knew something wasn't right and I knew I didn't want to emulate many of the behaviors of my parents - in my mind because they were so blatant and outrageous.

With my DH it was a much longer coming realization, I believe in great part, because there was this thick, carefully constructed and maintained facade of normality and social compliance to the extreme. The behaviors are extremely covert, especially to someone who has not been encouraged (or actively discouraged) to be discerning and question the status quo and risk ostracization and harsh reprisals.

I am not sure you or anyone reading here has ever had had this feeling: both my DH and I are survivors and I feel like our families are in our marriage due to our trauma responses. I am becoming more aware of my resentment of this. MIL is an intrusion in our lives but I know it is not for me to decide what path he takes with her, It's hard to stand by and it's like walking a tightrope. As many of us have come to know, the only behaviour we can truly change is our own.

DH started coming Out of the FOG and he tells me  that I need to have patience. I know that is true but sometimes it seems like an excuse. I'm frustrated and I think he is too.

My latest realization is that we both have a trauma bond with his family. I have gone from one trauma bond to another, from my family to his.

I can distance from his FOO to a point now that I have had a reckoning with mine  but his trauma bond is much much harder to break due to certain ties I did not have. And obviously, it is his family.

YES!!! Trauma bonding!! You are hitting on something that has been critical to both my DH and myself understanding why we have allowed our FOO to even be in our lives, homes, businesses in some instances, and/or to have so much influence over our well being and so much access to our resources, finances, family, emotional and physical reserves and strength.

It has also been critical to learn about intimacy circles and how important it is to take responsibility for protecting the most important relationships we have from those who refuse to, or are unable to, manage themselves in respectful, honest, and honoring ways in relationship with us. Sadly, it has meant for me, moving my in law family out to a the furthest level of intimacy and access to me, my life, my home, even my information.

Like you, for reasons I can't disclose, NC with mil is not a possibility for us, but I do not have the same interaction with her as my DH and have learned the very hard way to have strong limits on communication between us. Only in the presence of others. No one on one convos, no telephone convos, and if I need to communicate something important to her I use snail mail.

Then there is the fact that he has been, importantly, supportive through my own family ordeal. I think there is an underlying idea in my mind that as his wife I must reciprocate, It's hard to not to feel guilty about that when I want to get as far away as I can from MIL.

MIL is likely to remain in our lives forever, for reasons I cannot explain here NC is not an option at this time.

Maybe that's ok--after all that happen with the hive of uNs and assorted PDs in my family it's easier to face up to the issues  described here. It's life practice, maybe.

Sometimes I want to throw up my hands but I am stubborn and after I have learned what I know now I refuse to succumb. Still working on why I feel that way.

Coming back, I'm really glad you have compassion for your husband, Bloomie.  I think the things you have in common may at times make things difficult but perhaps there are things between you that others could not understand.

A key theme here is patience. We all grow at are own rates and sometimes we coincide. It's great when we can meet in the middle.

The fact that conversations about these things are occurring more commonly is huge. So many of us come from families in which it was unheard of and that is why we are here now... TBC...

It is gratitude and compassion that compels us to support our DH's and what I have learned over the years is to keep that energy flowing toward my DH and my children and grandchildren. My role is clear... I am my DH's wife. I support him emotionally and spiritually and I guard that connection. Supporting him is not equal to hands on engagement with his family members who have told me straight up I am not their 'blood' and I am not their family.

So true that a key piece of all of this is patience! Really powerful reminder. Thank you for that. It is huge that these conversations are taking place and we are breaking generational cycles by doing this hard work and that we continue to grow!

[bee well]

Hi Bloomie,

Thank you for what you have written here. It really helps to share with someone else who "gets" it.

DH gets it too but the outside perspective is so important and validating. We need that to hold on to our realities.

You write: ". at a VERY young age I knew something wasn't right and I knew I didn't want to emulate many of the behaviors of my parents - in my mind because they were so blatant and outrageous."

I'm not sure if it saved you any heartache, but I'd wager your perspicacity has helped you much along the journey into becoming the person you are today, and to maintaining a good sense of self.

This really stands out:

"With my DH it was a much longer coming realization, I believe in great part, because there was this thick, carefully constructed and maintained facade of normality and social compliance to the extreme. The behaviors are extremely covert, especially to someone who has not been encouraged (or actively discouraged) to be discerning and question the status quo and risk ostracization and harsh reprisals."

I have dealt with both and it's hard to say who is more dangerous, "blatant and outrageous" or the coverts who remain cloaked in a veil of normalcy. In my case the coverts were the straw that broke the camel's back. MIL seems to have traits of both. Fortunately she maintains a sense of responsibility in the material sense.

I think the coverts are can be harder to get away from because it so hard to ask for help when those who haven't experienced it heard the stories will not believe it.

The trauma bonds are beasts. When we don't know they exist it's a steep and slippery cliff  to scale. When we know what they are then we can consciously choose and hopefully dodge some of  those covert manipulations. That I think is for so many of us that is a huge step towards freedom.

About your MIL:

"I do not have the same interaction with her as my DH and have learned the very hard way to have strong limits on communication between us. Only in the presence of others. No one on one convos, no telephone convos, and if I need to communicate something important to her I use snail mail."

You have clearly benefited from that mental space. I am never alone with MIL. That's a rule now.  Since the speaker phone call there have no one on one phone calls. This has brought a lot of peace because I no longer find myself trying to "explain" what happened.

Then there is this:

"I have learned over the years is to keep that energy flowing toward my DH and my children and grandchildren. My role is clear... I am my DH's wife. I support him emotionally and spiritually and I guard that connection. Supporting him is not equal to hands on engagement with his family members who have told me straight up I am not their 'blood' and I am not their family."

It's sad and closed minded that your DH's family has this view, and a very hurtful thing to say. It's also illogical. There is no such thing as a family completely related by blood, is there? How could we even exist and evolve without including others? (That's a whole other philosophical can of worms but I will put it out there for emphasis...)

I'm sorry your ILs are like that. It's heartening, though, to hear what you say about breaking the generational cycle and passing the loving energy to your DH and your children and so on. When we can do this in the face of all the rest, it's not all for nought. I hope sentiments like these continue to grow in this community and elsewhere.

I'm working on patience here...May patience flow to you as you continue to deal with your ILs. I hope all is going relatively well with the situation that brought you to start this thread.