Asking for a friend

[Associate of Daniel]

I have a christian friend who has endured an abusive marriage for over 30 years.

As far as she is aware, her husband has not committed adultery and as far as her definition of desertion goes, he has not deserted her.

But she acknowledges that he is very abusive - verbally, physically (in the past), emotionally, mentally, financially - the lot.

She has only recently come to the belief that it is ok to separate in her circumstances.  Just not to divorce.

However, she stays, despite the situation becoming more and more untenable.

I think she is basically waiting for God to tell her to leave, rather than just making the decision herself. 

My thinking is that God rarely works with definite signs or an audible voice.  I think she's basically come to a point of giving herself permission to leave, but is just waiting for a definite confirmation from God.

It's very difficult for me to not say, "How many signs do you need?  The cycle just keeps turning.  Nothing gets or stays better.  It's been over 30 years... etc."

I guess I'm asking you for your thoughts on what she should do.   Or what permission from God might look like for her.

Thoughts, anyone?

AOD

[Call Me Cordelia]

Hasn't your friend heard the story of the guy in a flood asking for God to rescue him? He knows the flood is coming, but doesn't evacuate because God will save him. Later a rescue boat comes while he sits in the second floor of his house as the waters get higher. He won't get on the boat because God will save him. Finally a helicopter comes by while he sits on the very highest peak of the roof. He refuses to climb up, because his faith in the Lord is so great. Finally he drowns and says to the Lord, "Why didn't you save me?!?" "I sent you a warning, and then I sent you a boat, and then a helicopter!!!"

[Associate of Daniel]

It's been a while since I heard that story, CMC!  Thank-you.  It seems quite relevant to my friend's situation.

AOD

[SonofThunder]

AoD,

There is plenty of Biblical evidence of Jesus actually (supernaturally) removing himself over and over from ongoing rage-abuse, in order to keep his plans moving along in his Earthly ministry.  Only at the end, did he allow himself to be abused to death because it WAS his plan to be victorious over that death, for mankind's benefit.

If God will remove himself from abuse, then is your friend better than God for staying?? 

If God will remove himself from abuse, then she should model him imo. 

SoT

[Associate of Daniel]

Thanks, SoT.

You're right.  Can you easily reference those scriptures for me? Obviously the gospels but I'd have to go through page by page to find them.

Only if you have time.

Thanks.

AOD

[SonofThunder]

Thanks, SoT.

You're right.  Can you easily reference those scriptures for me? Obviously the gospels but I'd have to go through page by page to find them.

Only if you have time.

Thanks.

AOD

Yes, i will put a few together and reply here.

SoT

[SonofThunder]

Thanks, SoT.

You're right.  Can you easily reference those scriptures for me? Obviously the gospels but I'd have to go through page by page to find them.

Only if you have time.

Thanks.

AOD

AOD, see four below. Although reading Jesus did this one time...is enough validation for me to follow his lead and know he approves of me modeling him.  These are 4 testimonies to his purposeful escape of physical abuse, so his multiple, purposeful departures will hopefully be fully validating for your friend. 

I personally follow Christs words and actions in making my decisions, not the words of mere humans.  Im not supernatural empowered nor omniscient, so i will let Christ be the martyr for me.  He deserves the victory over death, and i will follow him away from physical abuse, should it occur in my life. 

John 7: 30
John 7: 44
John 10: 39
Luke 4: 28-30

SoT

[square]

Thanks for putting together those references.

[SonofThunder]

Thanks for putting together those references.

Surely!  I will keep your friend in my thoughts and prayer for freedom from abuse.

SoT

[SonofThunder]

AOD/Square,

I replied to Square but also thinking it was AOD to which i was replying. AOD, I will keep your friend in my thoughts and prayer for freedom from abuse.

The four reference verses are proactive removal from physical abuse, and protection of self and also protection of boundaries (Jesus plans).  The contrasting verses where he allows the final martyring abuse, imo makes the four verses above, that much more powerful in self control and self protection, as well makes be bow in awe that Christ would purposefully allow himself to be tortured, to rescue me. 

Matthew 26: 45-54
John 18: 1-8

No extra charge for this extra tidbit, but notice the sheer POWER of Jesus' spoken word in John 18: 1-8.  This was a 'detachment' of soldiers, which is a division of a 'legion'. Per internet sources, the 'detachment' is about 600 soldiers...to arrest one man. 

Jesus says "Who is it you want?"   They replied "Jesus of Nazereth". 

Verse 6: When Jesus said "I am he" (a reference not only to himself but as very God) they (detachment) drew back (these are well trained, loyal ROMAN soldiers) and FELL to the ground.   

Goosebumps! 

SoT

[Associate of Daniel]

Goosebumps indeed, SoT!

Thanks so much for putting these references together.

My friend will probably say they refer to physical abuse and she's (no longer) being physically abused.

But I think she's almost at the point of seeing the physical affects of the other forms of abuse she's enduring so I might try to take that tack in our next conversation and refer to these verses.

Thanks again.

AOD

[1footouttadefog]

I think that in modern times we have reduced the importance of sin by making only sexual sins have social or religious importance to us.

So very often scripture speaks very strongly about many other sins.  Pride is possibly the worst sin and leads to many of the rest.

Lying is another.

Hate, Jealousy, Envy, List, Perversion, Laziness, gluttony.Blasphemy is super important to God. 

If you look at a PD and the common traits of od people they are almost all a version or manifestation of common sins.

Could it be that at the point that we find ourselves regularly commiting sins in self defense we need the do something about it. 

The Bible speaks of cutting of a limb if need be to keep from sinning and to enter into heaven.  If we are one flesh with someone who creates a need to sin to be safe perhaps we need to cut off that limb.

Is making our marriage vow turn out to be a lie more or less important than living  a life  of telling lies and commiting other sins just to "pretend" to be married long after the marriage vows have been broken.

Was the marriage about sex only? If that is the only vow, then can you consider yourself unmarried when you no longer have a sex life.

If there is more to it than just sex then can breaking these other vows equate to adultery?

[SonofThunder]

Goosebumps indeed, SoT!

Thanks so much for putting these references together.

My friend will probably say they refer to physical abuse and she's (no longer) being physically abused.

But I think she's almost at the point of seeing the physical affects of the other forms of abuse she's enduring so I might try to take that tack in our next conversation and refer to these verses.

Thanks again.

AOD

Hi AOD,

My personal opinion regarding physical abuse is:

1. Emotional abuse becomes physical abuse: I read these books, in which the research proves that fact, therefore emotional abuse is also physical abuse.

Books:   'The Body Keeps the Score' and 'When the Body says NO'

2. Physical abuse "no longer" = a potential future of physical abuse, and it could be deadly next time. 

3. Physical abuse "no longer" = a legal crime of assault occurred in the past and the assailant has not yet paid the price for the crime committed (does proof of the assault exist, such as past written communications, witnesses, doctor/hospital records etc..)

-Criminals imo, should be held accountable for criminal activity. 
-Victims of assault should no longer live with, have any relationship with or even be near (protective orders) their assailant.

SoT

[Associate of Daniel]

I agree, SoT.

My friend is not quite on the same page as me regarding the past physical abuse that she and her children suffered.  I suspect she may only come to that thinking once she has been out of the relationship for some time.

One step at a time, I guess.

AOD

[SonofThunder]

I agree, SoT.

My friend is not quite on the same page as me regarding the past physical abuse that she and her children suffered.  I suspect she may only come to that thinking once she has been out of the relationship for some time.

One step at a time, I guess.

AOD

AOD,

That surely is the 'catch 22' in these physical abuse relationships: "...she may only come to that thinking once she has been out of the relationship for some time."

SoT