A challenging phase for our marriage

[mustard_seed]

My husband isn't acting like himself. He seems angry, irritable, or just plain down much of the time. I've been reactive, taking things personally and feeling hurt and drained. Drained from trying to fix his moods by making fun plans for us, putting my own interests aside to focus on him/us. Things are off balance, and I need to find my balance again.

I thought uPDmil was in the wings, being demanding and intrusive. But something has shifted since they spent Mother's Day together, and she's being quiet and cold, it sounds like almost a silent-treatment approach. H doesn't want to talk about it much more than that, says there's not much to talk about as his parents aren't acting like adults. He does admit he's having a hard time with it. He seems bewildered by the way things have been going with them. But the talk of all of us going to family counseling seems to have stopped, at least. And there's been no additional talk about his going to counseling with her/them on his own.

What is she up to? What will happen next? I find myself ruminating. And also having cognitive distortions, "I should have handled things better, I'm the reason he's in this pain, why couldn't I just keep my feelings and thoughts to myself and make the best of it?"  I mean, part of this is true: confrontation with uPDmil is fruitless and always has been. It just makes things worse.

I need to put the focus back on me. I'm re-reading "Boundaries" by Cloud & Townsend, trying to find a healthier mindset and focus on my needs, 51%. It's hard because I'm used to a fun, doting, loving, warm and kind husband. I don't have a support system outside of our marriage. Therapy is proving a challenge, as the first trauma-informed T showed several red flags, including encouraging me to return to abusive situations and "reconcile." I'm on the waiting list for a new trauma-certified therapist who seems in high demand.

This is a period of time when faith is called for. During one of our recent disagreements, H even said, "Please just have faith in me." It's hard to know that the sky is blue when it's been raining for a solid week.

Some positives:
--I found a time to suggest that husband reach out to a mentor, friend or counselor. He was more receptive than I'd anticipated, though hasn't taken any steps that direction that I know of.

--He's also open to marriage counseling, as this rough patch feels like such a departure from our norm, and maybe we do need some support on our recurring issues after all. For now we decided to prioritize my individual counseling, and if that goes well, see about a referral for marital. We agreed to focus on peace and stability for now, maybe knowing that some issues (having a child, e.g.) need to be shelved at the moment.

I wonder if this phase maps onto what others have experienced with their partners.
I wonder if MIL's distance (SO unusual for her) says anything in the PD language that I should be aware of.

Thank you for listening.

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi Mustard Seed,

A few things came to mind as I read your post.

Regarding the distancing of MIL lately. My uNPDm used to distance herself from me after a holiday such as Mother's day or other events where we had gathered as a family.

Since this was a behaviour she repeated often, I reflected on it and I think it was meant to convey one of 3 messages. All 3 are just different ways of saying "this relationship isn't about you at all, it is all about me me me.... I think her distancing was meant to convey one of these messages to me:

1. "I got my supply from you and now I'm on to more important things in my life right now".
2. "I didn't get my supply from you (you did everything wrong at the last visit) and now I'm punishing you"
3. "I've temporarily forgotten about you, because I'm busy with some other drama I've created in my life".

Looking back on my time with her, those are the 3 likely attitudes she held towards me when distanced. A narc parent is so disordered, they really do see the relationship with their child as a way of exerting this sort of emotional, manipulative control. There was never a concern about what this behaviour would do to the people it was being directed at. Never.

In my case, the period would last about a month or sometimes 2 months. Typically what triggered her out of her 'cold, distant' state was hearing that I was going to do something without her "permission". Then the cycle of control would start all over again.

As for how it is all affecting you, sadly this is the intended effect of all disordered behaviour (in my opinion). It is to throw off the people in the system. The fact that you have been feeling stuck, drained, off balance, is (sadly) exactly the emotional experience of having a PD family member.

Instead of people in the family having their emotions 'in order' you can think of it as 'not ordered', hence 'disordered'. PDs do not have their emotions in order (i.e. in balance) and this spreads out - just as it has spread to your DH and now you.

PDs cause relational damage, all the live long day...and I have found it helpful to learn to see through that lens. That the PD is going to dis-rupt, dis-order, dis-organize, all of the stable emotional selves or relationships in the family system. Does that make sense to your situation? MIL is disordered, her own emotional system is disordered, and it extends outwards, to DH and then you.

Let's think about the nonPD version of how this would go. In a non-PD family system, your MIL would have had Mother's Day with her son, and if she was upset about something afterwards, she would be able to communicate that effectively - without damaging the person's self-esteem or sense of self - and they would address the specific problem, and find a way through it together. That is what happens in healthy relationships.

Since your MIL is emotionally immature, that process didn't happen. That process can't happen. She's not capable of it.

This happened instead. This cold, confusing behaviour from her....that you are stuck trying to make sense of. Her actions have affected your DH, and they have affected you. This is the misery of the PD family.

Interestingly, I was reading about Bowen theory thanks to another member here suggesting it in a different post. According to his theory of families, "The more anxiety one person absorbs, the less the other people [in the family] have to absorb".

Does that ring true for your situation? It sounds like you are trying to absorb all the tension everyone is feeling, and you are getting no where (because right now, your DH is doing more of what his own mother does, and basically shutting down instead of giving you information so that the two of you can address the tension together).

Withholding (in intimate relationships) is a learned behaviour, that was learned in childhood, in order to survive.

Your MIL won't say what is bothering her, and your DH won't really say much either. You're feeling off-balanced by this, because relationships run on communication and intimacy. In any relationship, when someone shuts down, the other person can feel a lot of stress. Especially if they are not told why the shut down is happening.

It sounds like you are missing some information about what happened during or after Mother's Day between them. So you are left guessing as to what happened. I can relate to this. I spent my childhood guessing at how to fix the people around me. It became a habit / coping mechanism. When people are letting you guess and guess and guess at how to fix them, that is a sign that it is time to do what you are doing: look at which boundaries will help you to put an end to the guessing, since it is stressful and will deplete us when we have to guess at how to fix a situation.

You are not to blame for the lacking information about what is going on for MIL and DH. You're not to blame for these shut downs / shut outs from others. Those are their decisions.

People will shut down when they are feeling things they don't know how to sort out. But it is up to them to learn how to address the feelings that cause the shut down. You can't learn things for your DH.

I have no idea if this fits for your situation or not, but there are a lot of adults with Narc parents who are terrified of examining the reality of their situation. That their parents lack the capacity for loving, safe, adult relationships with them. If your partner is now saying things like "no point in talking about it, they are not acting like adults" then he is aware of at least some of the reality - that these are permanent Narcissistic traits, not transient moods. This is who they are. Emotionally, they are not adults.

It is impossible to heal from a loss without grieving. Realizing "oh, these parents of mine are not behaving like adults" leads to the next realization of "Were they ever adults? Did they parent me out of love for me, or did they emotionally manipulate me?"

I believe those questions are best explored in therapy, for adult children of N parents.

So many of us have dreams and ideas about our future that actually are tied in with the relationships we want to have. When we realize we can't have the relationship we need / want, it can be a huge blow. Your husband may be coming up against realizations that his parents won't be helpful to you if you have children (which you mentioned in your post).

Adult children of Narc parents have a lot to grieve.

All in all, unless he is ready to share that stuff with you, it is a good idea for you to focus on yourself and like you said, look at where boundaries will help you with your own emotional health right now. I'm sure others here will have other perspectives to share as well.

Wishing you much inner peace as you get through this,

Trees

[Cat of the Canals]

Her sudden icy silence sounds very much like the Silent Treatment to me. It makes me wonder if he set some kind of boundary during Mother's Day, and she's now punishing him for it.

In any case, I'm so glad to hear that he sounds more open to marriage counselling. That feels like a step in the right direction.

I think in a previous thread, I said that these changes in your husband might be a sign of better things to come: that he's no longer comfortable with the old ways. And trying to find some "happy" medium going forward, in which you are NC and thus he must bear the entire brunt of his mother's abuse and bad behavior, is NOT so happy after all. And I bet he's really wrestling with that.

When I first came Out of the FOG with my PDmom, it was pretty rough. I felt extremely anxious and depressed and just confused for a period of several months. There was a constant cycle of circular thoughts running through my head at all times. "Is she really BPD/NPD? So many things seem to fit, but then again, maybe she COULD change. Maybe I just need to give her one more chance. I could write a letter explaining everything, and then she'd see. What am I saying? Do I actually think a letter is going to magically fix 30-some years of a dysfunctional relationship??? I've read the books, and I already know the answer to that. If anything a letter will make it worse!" And then the cycle would start again.

A lot of the books talk about grieving the relationship, and that is very much what it felt like. I was sad, angry, in denial, bargaining... all of it. It took quite some time to get to "acceptance" and even then, it wasn't a straight line. I still (very rarely and for very short periods of time) have denial/bargaining moments. "Maybe if I just said this or did that...".

My point is... DO have faith. And hope. And patience. With healthy boundaries, as always, off course. I do think it will get better.

[mustard_seed]

I shouldn't have said I don't have support, when I've found such kind humans right here. Thank you Trees & Cat for your thoughts. 

Everything y'all are saying is resonating and helping me to reel myself in.

On MIL's eerie quietness, you both pointed out that this could be a silent treatment punishment for DH not complying at their last visit, possibly for setting some boundaries with her. From the little he told me, I think this could be it. I think he's setting some boundaries about what he will and won't talk about, including further discussion of the issues pertaining to me.

Basically, she isn't getting her way. With the silent treatment, she may be trying to manipulate him into breaking his boundaries, or just communicating her displeasure towards him. Makes sense, and also helps me to think: oh, maybe this is a good sign.

Does that ring true for your situation? It sounds like you are trying to absorb all the tension everyone is feeling, and you are getting no where (because right now, your DH is doing more of what his own mother does, and basically shutting down instead of giving you information so that the two of you can address the tension together).

Yes, wow, this makes sense. MIL's disordered actions have upset DH's equilibrium, and I'm trying desperately to re-establish that because our relationship is crucial to my emotional well-being. He's not giving me signals of security or warmth right now, and my body, mind and heart are really struggling with that. You mentioned you learned a coping mechanism of trying to "fix" those around you -- ME TOO. I haven't talked about it much on the boards, but I'm VLC with my own FOO, which is where I learned this habit as well. It's helpful to remember to look at that piece. It may be that on a subconscious level, DH has gotten used to me doing this, and expects me to soothe him or otherwise repair his equilibrium. Which... is not healthy boundaries. I mean, yes, we need each other for emotional support. But that's different than carrying his emotions or fixing them.

I have no idea if this fits for your situation or not, but there are a lot of adults with Narc parents who are terrified of examining the reality of their situation. That their parents lack the capacity for loving, safe, adult relationships with them. If your partner is now saying things like "no point in talking about it, they are not acting like adults" then he is aware of at least some of the reality - that these are permanent Narcissistic traits, not transient moods. This is who they are. Emotionally, they are not adults.

It is impossible to heal from a loss without grieving. Realizing "oh, these parents of mine are not behaving like adults" leads to the next realization of "Were they ever adults? Did they parent me out of love for me, or did they emotionally manipulate me?"

I believe those questions are best explored in therapy, for adult children of N parents.

So many of us have dreams and ideas about our future that actually are tied in with the relationships we want to have. When we realize we can't have the relationship we need / want, it can be a huge blow. Your husband may be coming up against realizations that his parents won't be helpful to you if you have children (which you mentioned in your post).

Adult children of Narc parents have a lot to grieve.

All in all, unless he is ready to share that stuff with you, it is a good idea for you to focus on yourself and like you said, look at where boundaries will help you with your own emotional health right now. I'm sure others here will have other perspectives to share as well.

Wishing you much inner peace as you get through this,

Trees

Yes, okay, this helps me with clarity and compassion. I've been there (detachment, grief) with my own FOO, but it looked very different. Yes, this rings true. Also the part about how our future dreams can be tied up with relationships... and relationship breakdowns can affect how we see our own lives... WOW. Very powerfully hitting home and I thank you for sharing this. I've been angry at DH because of his putting the brakes on our discussion of starting a family. But I think I can see how painful that might be for him now.

In general, your post reminded me to check in with my own emotions and I found much there that needed tending. Anger, disappointment, fear, sadness, loneliness. This isn't what I expected for our first year of marriage, or this new chapter. Have had a few real cries over the past few days and I'm now feeling calmer, if still sad. I have definitely been neglecting my own emotional life, and there was lots of tension to tend to.

This is getting lengthy, so I'm going to start a new post to reply to Cat. Thank you again -- I hope you're doing well.

~Mustard Seed

[mustard_seed]

I think in a previous thread, I said that these changes in your husband might be a sign of better things to come: that he's no longer comfortable with the old ways. And trying to find some "happy" medium going forward, in which you are NC and thus he must bear the entire brunt of his mother's abuse and bad behavior, is NOT so happy after all. And I bet he's really wrestling with that.

Yes, you did! Which reminded me that his moods haven't just shifted these past weeks, it's more of an ongoing pattern than I realized. And what you're saying definitely clicks. DH has always admitted that MIL has issues, but he's defended her or shrugged it off, mostly. Downplayed it. Now, although he isn't saying much, when he does tell me something about their last visit, he's in amazement that someone could say and do such rude, horrible things. I know full well none of this is new; this is the woman I met and disliked on Day 1. But he's actually seeing it all of a sudden, with clarity, bewilderment and anger, it seems.

When I first came Out of the FOG with my PDmom, it was pretty rough. I felt extremely anxious and depressed and just confused for a period of several months. There was a constant cycle of circular thoughts running through my head at all times. "Is she really BPD/NPD? So many things seem to fit, but then again, maybe she COULD change. Maybe I just need to give her one more chance. I could write a letter explaining everything, and then she'd see. What am I saying? Do I actually think a letter is going to magically fix 30-some years of a dysfunctional relationship??? I've read the books, and I already know the answer to that. If anything a letter will make it worse!" And then the cycle would start again.

A lot of the books talk about grieving the relationship, and that is very much what it felt like. I was sad, angry, in denial, bargaining... all of it. It took quite some time to get to "acceptance" and even then, it wasn't a straight line. I still (very rarely and for very short periods of time) have denial/bargaining moments. "Maybe if I just said this or did that...".

Thank you so much for sharing this, especially your inner dialogue about it. It's confusing and messy and circular in reality... not linear and predictable. A good reminder for me that this is likely a grief process for him and it won't look like mine with my own FOO as we're different people. And even still, I went through my own denial and bargaining. I'm very open about my thoughts & feelings, so it can be hard for me to (effectively) empathize until someone tells me what is going on. It helps to see what might be happening for him. Very human and real thoughts and feelings and I do believe patience is called for.

Thank you for the encouragement Cat, and the vote that things will get better. I have so many reasons to think so... we've been through *a lot* together and have only gotten stronger over the years.

I hope things are going well for you. I'm glad to hear that the moments of denial/bargaining are brief and mostly easily dealt with now. And so glad you're here on these boards sharing your story.

-Mustard Seed