DH is deep in the fog. Our marriage might be over.

[Flyingmonkeyswife]

  My PDMIL does all the classic things a passive aggressive covert narcissist would do. Stomps boundaries, expresses her entitlement to our infant "But I'M GRAAAAANDMA", guilt trips DH, acts like the victim "I'm just a lonely old widow who's gonna die any day", and "I miss MY GRANDBABY I never get to see her!" passively blaming me for never bringing the baby and dropping her off at grandmas to babysit. Even though we spend literally every holiday together, even Halloween, Memorial Day, etc.

My DH thinks I'm the crazy, controlling, overbearing one.

I've printed an article about creating boundaries with grandparents, and why boundaries are good. But aside from that, he's HEAVY in the fog.

Wondering if anyone had luck with couples therapy or, if you ever successfully got your spouse Out of the FOG?

[treesgrowslowly]

Hello and welcome,

It is one thing to be aware of your MILs narcissism. And that is a good thing. But it is a whole other thing to get a spouse Out of the FOG.  I don't know that you can make someone get Out of the FOG.

That being said, you can lay out how often you will visit her and how long you will stay and whether she is welcome in your home and when and for how long. She isn't entitled to these things, despite her belief/  thinking she is.

It is up to your partner to respect your decisions about how much contact you want with her - if any.

Most people have no idea how hard this situation is that you are in. So I'm glad you are here.

Couples therapy: you can try. What would be the goal? If you hope to convince him that she's a narc, you are pretty unlikely to get that, unless he's coming Out of the FOG on his own. But it doesn't sound like it. If the goal is to get him to respect your boundaries  that is something a counselor could try to help with.

You have a right to your boundaries. You married him, not her. She's not automatically entitled to your time and attention.

Others here can chime in. I would say that in my experience, trying to control your spouses relationship  with his parents tends to cause a lot of conflict.

It's hard because the sons of narc mothers often expect their wives to manage the dysfunctions in his FOO and sweep things under the rug.

Since you can see her narcissism clearly, and he is in denial, you are now being blamed for the problems caused by her lack of mature behaviour. It is a common problem in PD families. My heart goes out to you.

You have a right to your boundaries. He may never get out of his denial about her, but he can and should find a way to respect your decisions about how often you will see her and deal with her.

Trees

[Pepin]

You have a right to your boundaries. He may never get out of his denial about her, but he can and should find a way to respect your decisions about how often you will see her and deal with her.

This was the bulk of my marriage.  My DH didn't like the boundaries I set; he thought it was mean.  And he had a myriad of excuses to cover for his mother.  He was unable to see that there was anything wrong with her behavior because he was in the thick of it. 

I know it made him angry when he had to deal with her alone -- and of course he would passive aggressively take it out on me through digs and moodiness.  Once you see it, you cannot unsee it.  And believe me, I tried everything I could think of to get my DH to see the situation and he wasn't having it.  And now CN MIL is dead....which means DH has all the time in the world to reflect if he wants to.  I don't know what is going on inside his head. 

I am sad that I even had to deal with all of this garbage as a spouse and mother.  It was unfair and I felt that the rug had been pulled out beneath me when we had children.  My children however, figured it out.   They saw what their grandmother was doing without me saying a thing.  They couldn't stand the way that she always took their father from them -- and how they were ignored and invisible.  Not all children can do this but, mine did.  That and the fact that they understand their place in CN MIL's lineup.  CN MIL ranked all the grandkids and that was a devastating blow to them to know that a human being close to them was capable of doing that. 

Continue to stick to your boundaries and set deal breakers if those boundaries are crossed too many times.  Being a grandma is in no way a default to the access of grandkids; good behavior is.  You'll need to also set boundaries with your husband.  Treat him like only a husband - don't let him think that he is just a son to his mother.  He is a husband and father and those two things have to come first.  Your MIL is a big girl and needs to start acting like one.

[treesgrowslowly]

Well said Pepin!

I am so sorry you had to go through that. It is a huge blow, in my own opinion, and experience, when the MIL is a narc or a PD. We want that relationship to go well, and when it doesn't, it really leaves a hole.

It is very fantastic that your kids saw through her.

It is just so sad what PDs do to our families.

Trees

[NarcKiddo]

I'm not sure it is possible to get anyone else Out of the FOG. I am pretty sure my younger sister is firmly in the FOG as regards our uNPD mother. I have made the odd comment that would enable her to open up to me but she becomes defensive of our mother every time. I am not prepared to do more than that, especially while our mother is alive, as I strongly suspect it would backfire badly on me. I agree with the previous posters - in particular treesgrowslowly.

[FayDHM]

These situations are so draining. I’m sorry you’re experiencing this.

Some hard truths-
- People come Out of the FOG when they’re ready. It cannot be forced, or it risks alienating them further.

- I understand wanting him to read articles & books. I used to try this too, but it didn’t change anything. I also realized it was kind of passive aggressive move on my part.
No matter how well intentioned, it’s still a nudge from us, down a road they’re not ready to travel.

- While DH Is still slightly enmeshed with her, he put up small boundaries, a little at a time. Started saying no to invitations from her, instead of always feeling guilty enough to say yes to too many.
(We did counseling, although not necessarily bc of her, but he is partly the way he is because of her, so it helped with that, too).  Stopped taking every phone cal from her, didn’t always text back or answer voicemails right away,

In the end it’s all a struggle for control. She wants to take your power away because she is probably threatened by you. It’s a game to these narcs. Stir up trouble, sit back & watch the drama unfold.

He wants to have control by not picking sides. It’s a losing strategy. By trying to keep the peace, he still isn’t  picking your side.

You want to have control because you understand that these problems can be fixed, but not without his meeting you halfway. So it feels like you’re stuck in a toxic situation you can’t control, and the person who can seize    control back from her is your H.

But that’s not true. You have power. And you can shake up the dynamic. I

It’s ok for you to put your own boundaries up with her - and the two of them together. Let him carry the burden by himself. Show up when you have to, be polite, ignore her pity party, never be alone with her, and call out bad behavior immediately. Sometimes they wait until you are alone together & toss some curveball passive aggressive comment at us. If you tell your husband, he may not believe you. After all, he wasn’t there.
So make sure he is always around - or someone else who can witness her behavior.

I’d also add - you don’t have to let her know that you know her game. Observe patterns & know you can beat her at her own game.

Good luck.