25 year old daughter lacks empathy

[thduda]

I am starting to think my 25 year old daughter has narcissistic traits. My father is definitely narcissistic and both siblings (sisters) have traits. She lacks empathy and is self-absorbed. I used to think it's just her age and normal self-involvement for that age. Yesterday we were at a party (July 4) and I asked her at the beginning of the night whether she would call me this week because my husband and her father is having major surgery. I have been very anxious about it and told her that. At the end of the night I reminded her again. She said if I had a dime for every time you have asked me to call you tonight I'd be rich-something to that effect. She knew I was upset by the comment, made some lame attempt to say it was a joke. We left the party and I was so upset I forgot my purse. My husband called her and she was like well you'll need to pick it up from our house because we just got back from a beach vacation and the house is a mess and we don't have the time to drop it off...She isn't working this week, my phone and drivers license is in there and we both have to work.  Her selfishness is just breaking my heart. I go out of my way to do things for her.  We used to be so close.  Maybe I am overthinking it and its normal 25 year old self-absorbed  thinking. She sometimes seems selfish with her partner as well, though. Could use any thoughts on this. How to talk to her about how hurt I am feeling and how much I miss our closeness, without me getting hurt further.

[Adria]

Gosh Jdcooper,

I'm so sorry you are going through this. It truly leaves you reeling.

I don't have much advice, but I know what you are going through.  I'm starting to think my 40 year old daughter is a narcissist.  I come from a whole family of them, and it's breaking my heart seeing these same traits in her as we moved to her town to be with her and the grandchildren.  We are in the process of moving away because of her antics taring dh and I up.  She is on vacation after dumping on me and will be home in a couple days.  I have no idea how I'm going to address her. I'm thinking probably the less said the better.  I'll probably say something like, "You don't get to do this to me anymore," and when we move to our new home, I will have some very strict boundaries.

I picked up a couple good books lately to help me sort this out. One is by Barbara Johnson, "I'm So Glad You Told Me What I Didn't Want to Hear."  Her heartbreak was under different circumstances, but I find the humor in her book very uplifting, and it makes me feel not so isolated and lonely.

The other book is called, "But It's Your Family," by Sherrie Campbell.   Wow! It really sheds light on things and helps you sort it out. 

It is a very hard situation at best. It is so awful to think this about our daughters. I think we have to find ways to protect ourselves so they can't keep hurting us.  What that looks like, right now, I'm not sure, but maybe some detachment and boundaries may help.  I have to do more reading before I know how to handle this well, but for now there are many tears. I wish you the best. Hugs, Adria

[thduda]

Thanks, I did talk to her today and she seemed to feel some empathy. It's just the self-absorption that is difficult. She doesn't call on Mother's or Father's Day, sometimes forgets family members birthdays etc. She is somewhat of an only child, her two stepsisters are much older 10 and 15 years older. So she was spoiled. She may have some narc traits but thankfully she is not manipulative, controlling, or abusive in any way.

Maybe she'll grow out of her self-absorption and think about others, more than just herself at some point.

I am so sorry about your daughter. I did read, "But it's your family" and it was great! helped me with my other family members. I wish you the best too!

[Adria]

I'm glad you got to talk. Hopefully she will see the light and make some changes.  She is still young. 

[BeautifulCrazy]

jdcooper, your posts both could probably have been written by my mother when I was 25. (Minus the PD family members. We don't have any of that in my immediate FOO)
There is hope!!
Some kids just mature more slowly.
I was a terribly self absorbed person with no real feelings of empathy or care and concern for my parents until I was nearly 30.
They were my parents and I loved them, but once I was no longer dependent on them, I didn't give much thought or energy to my relationship with them at all. I certainly didn't think to treat them as equals. Their job was to take care of ME. Not the reverse! (I did not consciously think this. I just somehow expected it.) I suspect my mum in particular encouraged this subconscious expectation by always going out of her way to do things for me, reminding me to do things I should have been tracking for myself, and taking all the responsibility for relationship management (between the two of us, as well as between me and other family members like dad, sister, extended family...)
Once I was more established as my own person, I became aware of my parents as adult humans who had lives and feelings of their own and I became curious and empathic and understanding. I also stopped expecting that they would always and forever behave in the "parent" role, while allowing me to behave as a child. My mum stepping back and doing her own things and living her own life and allowing me to fail was also a positive factor. We were pretty close for most of my life, but from age 22 to 28ish we were not. Although she tried very hard to maintain a good (and close) relationship with me, I had barely any interest and she was the only one doing any of the work. I sometimes even found her prompts and requests intrusive or annoying.
Once I had been on my own a while, figuring out adulthood without her (unasked for) help and advice and prompting and reminding of things, I found my own rhythm and then sought her out more. We became closer then, and we are even more so now. Since then we have had a wonderfully mutual and reciprocal relationship.
Maybe back off a bit, don't take it personally and let her come round herself? If she is also selfish with her partner, she might just be learning and maturing more slowly after being supported and catered to for so long (not necessarily a bad thing). If she is not enabled too much in the childishness, she is likely to turn out fine.

[Leonor]

Hi JD,

I am sorry to hear that you are experiencing pain in your relationship with your daughter.

It sounds like your husband's health issue was causing you a great deal of anxiety. It's normal to seek reassurance from loved ones and find solace in family at those times. I hope he is now we'll and back home at your side.

As the mother, it's not advisable to turn to your child for support, even if that child is an adult herself. At 25, your daughter doesn't have the life experience necessary to support you as a peer. That's not her role in your life.

It is understandable that you really wanted to talk to someone the night before your husband's procedure. But asking your daughter over and over was likely experienced by your daughter as nagging. Her joking was not necessarily ill-intentioned; she may have been trying to diffuse any tension between the two of you.

Turn to friends, a therapist, or a spiritual advisor for your emotional support. Come here and receive reassurance from those who offer it freely.

To place expectations on your daughter to take care of your feelings about crises, holidays, anxieties, etc., will always leave you aching, because she's not equipped to do it.

Besides, at 25, she's still learning how to adult. If you give her space to do so, without badgering her about what you need or accusing her of being neglectful or selfish or narcissistic, I bet she will feel more comfortable reaching out to you!

[Zia]

Gosh Jdcooper,

I'm so sorry you are going through this. It truly leaves you reeling.

I don't have much advice, but I know what you are going through.  I'm starting to think my 40 year old daughter is a narcissist.  I come from a whole family of them, and it's breaking my heart seeing these same traits in her as we moved to her town to be with her and the grandchildren.  We are in the process of moving away because of her antics taring dh and I up.  She is on vacation after dumping on me and will be home in a couple days.  I have no idea how I'm going to address her. I'm thinking probably the less said the better.  I'll probably say something like, "You don't get to do this to me anymore," and when we move to our new home, I will have some very strict boundaries.

I picked up a couple good books lately to help me sort this out. One is by Barbara Johnson, "I'm So Glad You Told Me What I Didn't Want to Hear."  Her heartbreak was under different circumstances, but I find the humor in her book very uplifting, and it makes me feel not so isolated and lonely.

The other book is called, "But It's Your Family," by Sherrie Campbell.   Wow! It really sheds light on things and helps you sort it out. 

It is a very hard situation at best. It is so awful to think this about our daughters. I think we have to find ways to protect ourselves so they can't keep hurting us.  What that looks like, right now, I'm not sure, but maybe some detachment and boundaries may help.  I have to do more reading before I know how to handle this well, but for now there are many tears. I wish you the best. Hugs, Adria

Based on the info you stated. It may be that your daughter learned the narcissistic traits from your other family members. This is one of the many reasons why adult children do not want to expose their children to their family members who is narcissist. For the most part, according to psychologists, narcissism is a learned behavior, no child is born as a narcissist.

To protect yourself from further harm or to save your sanity, building boundaries and lessening your interaction with the toxic person or NC at all would be helpful for yourself. Only you can determine this. You can try see what's good for your body, mind and soul.

[wisingup]

Hi thduda - I relate to much of what you are saying, from the daughter's point of view.  Perhaps I can give you a little perspective of what she may be feeling.  I think Leonor's post is spot-on, as well.

At age 25, your daughter is still fairly new at "adulting".  It's a time of big transitions.   Her anxiety level is probably fairly high as she's learning to support herself, find a life partner, find a permanent living situation, career etc.  She needs to know that mom & dad are stable & have her back as she goes out & tries new things.

When you ask her to emotionally support you, you are saying you don't have her back, you need her to be the strong one, etc.  This is placing a large emotional stressor on her at the same time you are removing her safety net.  She's also worried about her dad, & should be looking to YOU for support, not the other way around.  You should be finding your support elsewhere - siblings, friends, a therapist, etc.

You have expectations of the way she will behave as your daughter, and I suspect she does not share these expectations.  This may result in a dynamic where she is continuously surprised and stressed by your expectations of her, and you are continuously disappointed in her.  This is setting you up for a poor long-term relationship & possible estrangement if you become mostly a source of anxiety for your daughter. 

Feel free to take or leave this advice, but this is how it played out with my mom once she began to use me as her emotional support.  I simply could not handle the anxiety it created in me & had to distance myself.

[Srcyu]

This member is being classified as a 'guest'. For that reason I think she has left the forum.

[Jolie40]

I attended several parenting classes/workshops when child was young

in one class the speaker said "make sure your kid does volunteer work when they're a teen"

my kid is a teen now & has been doing volunteer work for several churches & the library
I believe it helps a teen to feel empathy for others

this weekend, teen will be serving food to less fortunate people one day
& other weekend day, teen is helping out younger kids at a library function

anyone- if you have a teen get them involved in volunteering!