Guilt about estrangement from extended family

[pianissimo]

These days, I'm supposed to get in touch with parents and extended family. Prior to visiting parents, I feel tired. Recently, I realized because I'm burdened with obligation and guilt, and the person who burdens me is my father. But, there is a reason, I'm susceptible to his "advice" on this issue. I feel responsible, because there is abandonment there, and, deep inside, I'm blaming myself.

So, my immediate family is very dysfunctional. Parents hate each other. Since my childhood, there were fights in the family, and they were very traumatic. Now, there is just hatred. So, to me, my home feels very bad. Parents' home always feels hollow to me. When I go home, I don't feel home.

Similarly, the extended family is scattered too. My mother hasn't spoken to my aunt for years. I never fell out with my aunt. I have a different relationship with my aunt and my cousins. My aunt gets along with me. But, for me, a big emotional tie is that when I was little, I was very attached to one of my cousins. She is older than me, and, back in the day, she met my need to be loved when she was around. I feel a lot of guilt for not being in more frequent touch with them, especially her. I feel like I let them down. Last year, my aunt's husband passed away. I called my aunt, but not my cousins, even the favourite one from my childhood. The main reason was, I didn't feel that emotional closeness. Things felt awkward. The whole situation felt weird: that my aunt's husband had passed away, and, as a family, we were too estranged to be with them. The only thing that felt sincere to do was to call my aunt, and not because she needed me, but because given the degree of estrangement, calling her felt normal.

There is estrangement from my father's side of the family too. My father is close to his FOO. I know them from my childhood too. But, as my father was a way a lot, and because my mother was closer to her FOO than my father's (whom she disliked), I didn't spend a lot of time with them. Plus, as a child, I liked being around my mother's side of the family. Now, I get along with my father's side of the extended family too, but there is no relationship between us apart from the fact that we are related, and know each other from childhood.

So, the thing about all this estrangement is, I feel immensely guilty for its continuation. It feels like I'm the one who isn't doing enough. But, when I take an objective look at the situation, I become able to see the estrangement isn't about me, and that it's normal for me to feel hesitant about making closer contact with people in the extended family. One reason is that it's actually difficult to cross rifts created by your parents. I have a cousin I'm in more regular touch with, and, with her, it feels natural. I'm thinking, I'm just one part of the equation. I had kept touch with my cousins too, got in touch with them whenever I went to the city they live, and I intend to do so in the upcoming months, but I think they didn't get in touch with me. One of them called me for my mother's post on Facebook. I visited my maternal grandfather last year, and he called me in relation to my aunt. It was odd. So, when I look at it this way, it seems like I'm actually doing what anybody could do under these complicated circumstances. But, when the times of year that require sending greetings approach, I feel so guilty for not wanting to call some relatives, and I feel like it's my fault that the things are the way they are.

I think my father has a part in this, because he usually pressures me to call relatives around holidays. I think he is asking me to do this from a practical point of view, like an investment in a relationship. But, he doesn't seem to have a notion that I, as a person, have feelings about people and our history with them. So, I decided to send at least holiday greeting messages to a few cousins including my aunt's children, but I'm already afraid my father will pressure me to call them.

Overall, when I think about all this, it feels like, in this case, I'm truly a bit too sensitive. Imagine I called my cousins tomorrow, out of nowhere, to celebrate their holidays. I mean, so what if it looks insincere? Would they mind? I do question my need for every contact I make to feel genuine. This need for things to have meaning... I don't know where this need comes from, and, in times like this, I wonder if that need is valid. I guess, to test this, I could ask my father for a list of relatives for me to call, and phone each of them, regardless of my actual relationship with them, even if they didn't even remember who I am, then see what happens. Would I feel less guilty? Would I feel more connected? But, while writing this, I already know that, this would invite people with an opportunistic mindset into my life. Anyways, at this point, I'm rambling.

[bee well]

Oh My, Pianissimo.

What you have described is beyond your doing. I'm so sorry things are that way.

Everyday is different. It's ok for you to feel the way you do now even if at times it's tiring and  you might just wish it could all go away. Be kind to yourself above all else.

It's not up to you to fix your family situation.  In spite of your knowing that, those heart feelings will come up, but they won't always be the same. Fortunately they will transform, and hopefully continue to teach you. Hang in there!

These are some of the things I remind myself of in some situations very similar to yours.

Still, It can be so sad and  painful at times when we realize how so many are not capable of seeing our good intentions, for reasons that have nothing to do with us.

In my opinion it doesn't matter how things are intepreted by others when you reach out with loving kindness, you know what your intentions are. You can hold that in your heart. For you.

The hard part is deciding what's best for you in the long run. And as I often remind myself, it's ok to revise one's approach. We learn as we go along.

I hope you will think about what's best for Pianissimo, and act from there.

Remember, you aren't alone.

[pianissimo]

In my opinion it doesn't matter how things are interpreted by others when you reach out with loving kindness, you know what your intentions are. You can hold that in your heart. For you.

Thanks bee well, I will try to hold onto this feeling.

You made me realize why I'm obsessed with being sincere. With a lot of the relatives, I have no sense of what they feel about me. There is almost no feedback. There is distance and prolonged period of no contact, and I perceive these as negative feedback. Plus, there is ongoing stuff that doesn't help with troubled relationships.  With my aunt's family, there is no dialog around where we are at in relation to their conflict with my mother. I think that when my father pressures me to call them, he is asking me to go against my nature. Also, I think that these are valid cues as to what my relationship is to others. It's possible I'm reading the situation right, and my responses in terms of texting, calling and remaining distant are all appropriate.

[Liketheducks]

I think as children, we're groomed to be the keepers of SO many others feelings.   You have absolutely no control over what others think of you.      You only have your side of the street to maintain.   

My mother has a similar opinion of me not doing enough to maintain relationships within our family.    I have to step back and objectively examine my side of the street.   My therapist once told me that "You're really not that powerful"....it was tongue in cheek.   But, I had to learn that there is only one person I can influence or change and keep my integrity and sincerity .....and that's me.   

I'm sorry you're being pulled in so many directions over this.   It is really hard.

[bee well]

Hey Again Pianissimo,

I'm glad that resonated. I can relate to what you say about sincerity, it's hard when we naturally and spontaneously have a desire to communicate that way and then get little reciprocation..In my family, the no talk rule has made sincertity all but non existent...I have been working on grey rock for a while and sometimes it feels strange, even if I know it's a self preservation, and I am all for it.  At  times I think it's ok to just say what we feel when we want to (and not judge ourselves for it)  as long as we are informed , and ready for any consequences....

I think what you wrote here is really important: 

"So, the thing about all this estrangement is, I feel immensely guilty for its continuation. It feels like I'm the one who isn't doing enough. But, when I take an objective look at the situation, I become able to see the estrangement isn't about me, and that it's normal for me to feel hesitant about making closer contact with people in the extended family. One reason is that it's actually difficult to cross rifts created by your parents. I have a cousin I'm in more regular touch with, and, with her, it feels natural. I'm thinking, I'm just one part of the equation."

Estrangement, in my experience, and I think in most cases, is bigger that any one of us. It's about the family system (ss you have pointed out.) I have had those guilt feelings too at times, about lack of closeness within my family, but communication isn't a one way street. I have asked myself "What could I have done better to change the outcome?" And aside from having better boundaries and self care the answer is nothing. I didn't know what I know now.

This is one reason I have stepped away from most of my family. I realized my sincerity had become a liability with them. It's more complicated than that and not going to go into all of the backstory but I relate to what you are saying.

Much patience to you as you deal with such complicated family dynamics...

[pianissimo]

I think as children, we're groomed to be the keepers of SO many others feelings.   You have absolutely no control over what others think of you.      You only have your side of the street to maintain.   

My mother has a similar opinion of me not doing enough to maintain relationships within our family.    I have to step back and objectively examine my side of the street.   My therapist once told me that "You're really not that powerful"....it was tongue in cheek.   But, I had to learn that there is only one person I can influence or change and keep my integrity and sincerity .....and that's me.   

I agree with you. I'm now asking myself "why" when I feel tired around a certain issue. My immediate thinking is, I feel tired around that issue because I'm just bad at it. I actually feel guilty when I feel like I'm not doing well around a particular issue, when I don't feel like dealing with it. Tiredness or exhaustion, or that burnt-out feeling actually helps me to wake up to the reality, that, no, I'm actually doing more than my share, and this is why I'm too tired.

Estrangement, in my experience, and I think in most cases, is bigger that any one of us. It's about the family system (ss you have pointed out.) I have had those guilt feelings too at times, about lack of closeness within my family, but communication isn't a one way street. I have asked myself "What could I have done better to change the outcome?" And aside from having better boundaries and self care the answer is nothing. I didn't know what I know now.

This is one reason I have stepped away from most of my family. I realized my sincerity had become a liability with them. It's more complicated than that and not going to go into all of the backstory but I relate to what you are saying.

Much patience to you as you deal with such complicated family dynamics...

Thanks bee well. I think another angle to the problem I'm having is, a lot of the relatives on my father's side are possibly his flying monkeys. It's possible, on my mother's side, cousins are perhaps my aunt's flying monkeys. Perhaps I'm perceiving these dynamics too and feel wary. But, I don't know my cousins too well, and I feel like finding out what kind of people they are. My father is a very controlling person. I expect if I get too close to a cousin, he would have a chat with me about it. So, there is that too. All this might be a reason I find interacting with relatives challenging. Perhaps I'm sensing my father's shadow. On some level, it's actually not safe for me. I will have to get past my father to have a real relationship with them.

Thanks a lot everyone for your posts.

[pianissimo]

Update: I called quite a few people for holidays. It went quite well actually. With a few (the cousin and a fanmily friend), it felt like they understood what the call was about. They actually told me what I felt about them. Thet let me know immediately how happy they are to hear from me, that they miss me. Then, I got in touch with a few others, with similar feelings actually, but it felt awkward in those calls. I thought I would call a few more relatives, but I stopped myself, because it felt weird. I think they welcomed my call, but I guess I need to hear that unreasonable love one feels for someone.
Thanks for the support here, making these calls are usually very hard for me.

[bee well]

Hi Pianissimo,

I'm a little late coming back, but I wanted to comment.

I hope you are doing well as can be in this Summer heat (you might be one of those experiencing an extroardinary heatwave.)

Thanks for the update. i'm glad you got through those calls.. I  know that awkwardness...I sometimes feel uncomfortable about making calls to my extended IL family. I might I feel a little better after the call, sometimes there is an uncomfortable feeling it's hard to identify. I try to remind myself it's not an obligation to call, and that it works both ways. MIL tries to guilt us into making the calls...

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi Pianissimo,

I'm late to the convo here too. Your original post got me thinking about a topic I had to learn so I could understand my own FOG better.

Good for you for reaching out to some of your relatives - since as you said, a lot of them were happy to hear from you. It sounds like it was a positive experience overall.

Two concepts come to mind when I think about what you describe here with your dad telling you to invest in these relationships with extended relatives.

First, unexamined beliefs - about family. In my own FOO, it is only 2 generations ago that people had kids for survival - for help on the farm. It really was about having kids so that you had help with the family business / farm. Fast forward to 2022 - my child is the youngest generation in our family tree. Gone are the days where people needed children to help them on the farm.

(There are so many different reasons why people have children, and so many different beliefs about what family members should do together).

Two generations ago, speaking again about my family tree, they couldn't separate from one another very easily - they were economically dependent on one another. Having a larger family meant you had more help and therefore, it was easier to survive economically. This is a completely different world than the one my child has grown up in!!

My point is that those beliefs can still get carried around - decades later. The things that were important to my grandparents, about family life, are not really important to me. Other things are important to me. This is life - things change from generation to generation. I had to realize how much a sense of obligation and guilt, had directed my ancestor's behaviours.

The idea that I should stay in touch with my cousins and forge some relationship with someone I barely knew growing up, just because I'm related to them - all of those beliefs were coming from the oldest people in my FOO. People whose parents had survival beliefs about the family. The family ties were tied to survival, literally. They needed to stay in contact with their FOO for survival (immigrating to a new country sort of situations).

I had to understand this historical context, because when I went NC with my FOO, I had my own beliefs about family and relatives.

It helped me to examine my own beliefs about families. Can we fix the system we were born into? Why or why not? These questions did plague me years ago. Many years ago, my ancestors would have felt very scared to live without being part of their family system - tied in to in-laws and relatives and cousins and grandparents etc...

Economically, it would not even have been viable for them to go NC from one another - they had to 'stick together'. This is the history of a lot of families where I live, and I suspect, maybe where you live too.

All of this reflecting helped me to see the context for my own NC. I had been raised by people who had held on to survival based beliefs. You stick together. No matter how your family treats you, you stay in touch. Those sorts of beliefs loomed large as I was growing up.

I also had played a role in my FOO (as I believe we each do have a role in our family system). I was the scapegoat, and the scapegoat gets blamed for all sorts of things that are going on or have gone on in the family system. The older I got, the more I wanted my "own life".

Second concept - projection. From what you describe, it sounds like your dad has projected his emotions onto you. He must have some unresolved issues regarding family, and thinks that if you stay in contact / invest in the relationships with your relatives, it will somehow 'fix' something. It sounds like he believes that you are obligated to invest in a certain relationship with your relatives.

I think these two concepts actually relate to one another. A lot of us are ready for relationships that are based on authentic connection, not just blood ties. I remember, growing up, there was pressure on me to make my cousins my friends, even if we didn't get along! Now a days, I know that it is better to let children make friends based on shared interests and who actually enjoying playing together! But there it was - that survival based belief - that I would probably "need" my cousins and so older generations, they just projected what they believed, onto the younger generations.

I also think that for older generations, maybe cousins where all they had. They don't realize that now a days, we can actually create social networks with non-relatives. For them, that may not have been possible, depending on their lifestyle, where they lived etc...

And then all of this can intersect with our own legit desire for a place to belong. I got older and saw how I had romanticized the idea of a kinship group getting along, supporting one another, showing up in times of need, all of that stuff about how families can be - the idea that blood is thicker than water.

Now I see my past more clearly. When I went NC (so that I could heal from narc trauma), no relatives contacted me to see how they could help. I guess I was on my own to heal from narc trauma. So then , what does that say about the state of my family / kinship group, if you are left alone as soon as you make a decision to heal from abuse. It basically says "you can belong to our tribe, as long as you don't mess with our rules". There are so many rules to follow in dysfunctional families. Where did these rules come from? Unexamined beliefs. Past generations who were truly dependent on each other for economic survival. Sweeping abuse under the rug.

My ancestors survived, partly by sweeping a lot under the rug. Eventually, someone is born who wants to address the 'issues' that got swept under the rug. The lack of affection, the lack of authenticity, the lack of healthy communication. Those things may have been swept under the rug decades before I was ever born! Families pass down practices from one generation to the next - so if they become dysfunctional than the dysfunction can get passed down too. And then someone is born eventually who says 'yeah, I think there's a better way'.

That person tends to be told they are too sensitive, and that person tends to be emotionally intelligent, and aware of the need for sincere relationships, rather than relationships of obligation. I see all of those traits in your posts.

I still have a hard time forgiving my ancestors for not 'learning' how to move from obligation to authenticity - I still ask myself, why didn't they form more authentic connections? Why did they operate on a sense of obligation?

I mean, I know why, but I also know how impossible it felt for me to go along with it.

Reading your post, I just feel like you are also someone who wants more than just relationships of obligation, and you are open to contacting your relatives, and having an authentic exchange with them.

We are all different and our relationships can range in terms of how close they are.

But what I have learned is that for people who have an obligation mindset, they think about family in a very different way than I do. I think that even as a child, I was sad that the adults people in my family were only spending time together because they felt obligated. Even as a child I think I sensed how limiting this was for everyone involved. As an adult, I am working on honouring the past - that for a long time my ancestors didn't have the choices I have. They were obligated to stay in contact, out of basic necessity. I do think it is possible to make peace with the things we learn about our family history - about where their beliefs were at, what they did out of survival, out of obligation, etc.. .and it is ok if we forge a new path for ourselves, and we seek authenticity for our own life. I think that is where I am at, and I wanted to share this in case it is helpful to you too.

I wonder if you see your dad as having a lot of beliefs that are about obligation. I agree with the other posts here, about how we have to learn that we are not the ones who can fix an entire family system. As one person said their therapist reminded them 'You are not that powerful". This is good to keep in mind! We can only do our part based on where we are at.

Trees

[pianissimo]

I hope you are doing well as can be in this Summer heat (you might be one of those experiencing an extroardinary heatwave.)

Thanks for the update. i'm glad you got through those calls.. I  know that awkwardness...I sometimes feel uncomfortable about making calls to my extended IL family. I might I feel a little better after the call, sometimes there is an uncomfortable feeling it's hard to identify. I try to remind myself it's not an obligation to call, and that it works both ways. MIL tries to guilt us into making the calls...

Thanks Bee Well, summer has been OK so far.
What I experience when I call my extended family is something similar. I try to monitor whether I'm calling for the right reason by asking myself why I want to call. For me, it becomes complicated because of all the enmeshment. I end up needing some support, and there is either no help or it's in enmeshed form that pushes me instead of supporting me.

treesgrowslowly, thanks for your post so full of insight.

What drives me to connect with the extended family is that I don't know a lot of them so well. I suppose, I resent that my relationship with them is somehow driven by parents. My mother's estrangement with them creates distance, and my father's relationship with them puts me under pressure to contact. Either case, I don't really know why I'm in or out of touch with particular members in the extended family.

What drives me to call a couple of people is that I knew them from my childhood. I think that, because of the ongoing chaos in my family, I wasn't in a position to establish or sustain a meaningful relationship with anyone. In the past couple of years, as I learned more about personality disorders, I started to think about people in my past in a different way. I guess, this helped me to feel less guilty about my failure to sustain a relationship with them. It helped me to notice people who were there for me in some ways. Plus, I realized I possibly don't know some people that I think I do.

So, I expect to fall out with a few family members in the family, family dramas that caused estrangement in the past are likely to play out again, but, this time, it will be my decision. I actually need to understand the good in these relationships too. For example, from my childhood, I remember I had a particularly good relationship with my aunt (mother's sister) and her daughters. I was very attached to one of my cousins. This continued despite my mother's fights with them. As a child, this was all so confusing. I still don't get what I had with them as a child. I guess, I remember the times I had with them very nice. Until my grandmother's death, we were very close with them. But after, my mother couldn't get along with them. She fell out with everyone after that, I think. I'm now realizing, part of my attachment trauma is related the isolation we experienced after that. But, until I realized it on my own in the past couple of years, nobody told me I suffered when my mother fell out with my aunt. My loss wasn't acknowledged. I didn't know I had experienced loss. I have a feeling that perhaps I would have done better if my aunt and her family were more around because I can somehow trace the immense loneliness and abandonment I felt up until recently to the time our contact with them reduced. But, then, I don't really know. Perhaps they were toxic too? So, now, I want to see what all this was. I suppose this is a little bit about parenting the inner child around her relationship with the aunt. Without having an adult vision, I only feel longing for them, or I feel guilty. I guess I also want to see if what we had back then was real. Did my cousin really love me as much as I remember? Was it all a lie or manipulation like my mother believed? Was there anything real with my connection with them? I am actually back from visiting them, and it was a lot like how it was back then. I could actually see why I liked the cousin I favored when I was a child. I don't know, overall, something felt regulated.

So, this is the part about my mother's side.

I made plans to meet with cousins from my father's side of the family too.

In the long run, I'm guessing I will run into problems that probably my mother couldn't deal with, but, at least, I will be able to make sense of them. Currently, it feels difficult for me to call people in the extended family because my relationship with them is not authentic. I'm hoping, when I have my own relationship, I will have a more solid answer when I don't feel like calling someone particular. I'm also not so optimistic if I'm honest.