Were my parents CPTSD survivors and not narcissist/borderline?

[Rose1]

There is crossover between the various pds. Imo only I think pd is 1 issue but then classifications are based around symptoms exhibited. I have had some psychologists say the same but don't think it's a popular view. Exbpdh was diagnosed as bpd but he sure got enjoyment over causing those who he felt had wronged him trouble and pain and he wasn't above using his kids to achieve that and losing a relationship with them because they didn't appreciate being used.

He also needed all the attention on him, otherwise he started to act out or created drama. So not totally narcissistic but quite a lot of traits. It made life very difficult.

Personally I could have dealt better with his bpd as an illness except for the obvious manipulation and enjoyment he got out of scoring some point or pain and the lengths he was prepared to go to get his own way or achieve pay back, which is very important to him.

[easterncappy]

There is crossover between the various pds. Imo only I think pd is 1 issue but then classifications are based around symptoms exhibited. I have had some psychologists say the same but don't think it's a popular view. Exbpdh was diagnosed as bpd but he sure got enjoyment over causing those who he felt had wronged him trouble and pain and he wasn't above using his kids to achieve that and losing a relationship with them because they didn't appreciate being used.

He also needed all the attention on him, otherwise he started to act out or created drama. So not totally narcissistic but quite a lot of traits. It made life very difficult.

Personally I could have dealt better with his bpd as an illness except for the obvious manipulation and enjoyment he got out of scoring some point or pain and the lengths he was prepared to go to get his own way or achieve pay back, which is very important to him.

I don't know about that. I think a lot of things are fleas... for example, some of my mom's behavior seems to just be her copying her mom's behavior when things get tough. She also plays into a lot of the weird, irrational behavior my dad exhibits. She definitely has some sort of a disorder herself but she copies the PD she was raised by and the PD she married a lot. I've caught myself copying all of these people's behavior too. No one is immune to fleas, if you've spent a considerable amount of time around a PD then you're probably going to have some, even if you're PD yourself.

Usually people who are raised by PD parents end up with a PD spouse, and often produce PD kids because the kids grow up thinking it's all normal (I do think a lot of PD comes from severe CPTSD which you're more likely to inflict on your kids when you're PD yourself, etc.).

I do agree that it's not always clear-cut. You don't usually need to meet all of the symptoms to be diagnosed with a specific disorder or illness. You can also just have a bad personality and be a malicious person without having a PD, or in addition to having a PD. The detachment from reality that's common among all of them probably makes them go in and out of normalcy occasionally.

[carrots]

Around here, we try to avoid diagnosing anyone with certainty, but it is SO helpful to say uBPD, for instance, meaning "you know: THAT kind of person."

Oh totally! I do that too.

What matters is that we are self-aware. We understand people's history of behavior. That we communicate with them properly and establish healthy boundaries. That we heal when necessary.
You are working on that, and for that I commend you. It is fine to let the labels go, and it is simply right to realize that they are soft labels, and not really susceptible to hard and fast rules.

Thank you! What you write probably applies to quite a few others on this thread too.

If anybody would like a scientific read on the differences and similarities between (c)ptsd and bpd https://bpded.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/2051-6673-1-9 Those differences are just not something you can summarise in one 'I think' statement.
A really quick summary of the article can be found here: https://www.outofthestorm.website/cptsd-glossary  under Borderline Personality Disorder

[Rose1]

Interesting. I agree fleas are part of it but a lot of people with fleas (a lot of us here for example) are self aware and working on them. PTSD also has many similar traits but again a lot of people try and get help because they are aware. This does not apply to a lot of pd people who tend to blame everyone else rather than look within. It may be fear based.

Exbpdh's doctor believed that bpd which we were discussing, was often modelled on the behaviour they grew up with. Ie nurture with someone who was susceptible.

Exbpd certainly had honed his mother's skills. Maybe they see it as a way of getting their way, which it often does, or a way to manage immaturity. Emotional immaturity is also part of the mix.

Pds don't have an illness, it's a personality disorder or a personality that lies outside social norms to the extent that the traits impede the ability to live a normal life. It's often set before age 3 or 4. And it often sits over other illness like bipolar.

So imagine a child, already fragile, thrown into a mix of pd and enablement. Growing up with emotionally immature people who can't parent well and who live in a state of high drama. Who can't see if their child may need support and who get their own way with a lot of very bad behaviour.

Pretty much sums up my ex. But he was very much bpd and saw the benefits of using the bad behaviour to get what he wanted. There was an element of choice involved. But a lot of it seemed automatic. Especially the denial and gas lighting.

The personality is disordered but the disorder appears to have pay offs in managing to avoid all responsibility and do exactly as you please. Most of us have been brought up to care about others, take responsibility etc. Pds not so much.

This is based on my observations of a number I have known but of course it doesn't apply to all. Some people with pd seek help. Dh's therapist suggested the figure might be around 2%.

[easterncappy]

It could be fear based. I was going to write in the common behavior subforum about my parents' extreme, unreasonable levels of paranoia about everything. That is one recurring theme I've noticed with the PD's in my family. They are really scared all of the time and extremely cowardly about authority figures, sometimes even having a warped sense of justice ("What if you ruin that man's life forever by calling the police on him for beating his girlfriend?"). Which makes me think there is a huge element of C-PTSD and anxiety but also I don't want to minimize the actual personality disorder which makes them abusive, because it's very well possible to be abused as a child without becoming a terrible parent and abuser yourself.