Considering no contact after moving

[intothewest26]

So.. I was logged in to N mom's Amazon account. We have shared the account in the past, which I have not done in a while (and won't be doing anymore.)

Tonight I saw that she had "saved for later" a book called "When Your Adult Child Breaks Your Heart." I scanned the book description and it talks about what to do if your child is "seriously mentally ill" and "acting out in public" neither of which are things that I am, or do.

The reviews are about "adult children who are refusing to get the help they need." I've been in therapy since I was 18 partially due to the trauma she caused. I have PTSD, but I do not act out outwardly. I'm generally a quiet person. I have trouble saying no. I had a stable job for a year. I was promoted to a manager position. And I just started a new job. I know that I am not "seriously mentally ill" but I really did question myself for a second seeing this.

This is an hour after I tried to share something with her about my grandpa (her stepdad) and she absolutely invalidated it and refused to talk about it. She has repeatedly invalidated my abuse memories. She allowed me to be abused by my father (witnessed it) put me in a dangerous environment with her current boyfriend, and then threatened to come into my workplace and tell my coworkers when I told her he'd made an inappropriate comment towards me. I had a serious physical health issue a couple months ago and had to literally beg her on the phone to bring me something I needed when I was too dizzy to drive and had been instructed by my Dr not to drive at the time. And there's so much more.

Now, she is playing the victim. In her mind I'm sure I am the problem somehow. I'm not perfect, no one is, but I know I would not ever invalidate my child if they attempted to come forward about abuse. She can't see what she's done, not at all. I also think she may have put this in the "saved for later" purposefully so that I would see it if I went to purchase anything on the account. That section pops up before you can check out or make other purchases. I'm not going to give her a reaction.

I'm considering going no contact when I'm able to move.

[moglow]

Remove yourself from that and every other account and set up your own. If she's using your account, change passwords and any other info she may have access to and carry on. Yes she may have left it there as bait of a sort but you don't have to bite.


I'd also stop trying to talk to her about events of which you know she's in denial or will excuse. Like trying to get blood from a turnip. Understand that she's limited and no matter how many times and different ways you bring it up, she's chosen her stance. And may she have joy of it.

[easterncappy]

I have a similar experience. I opened up to my mom about a lot of the abuse my dad put me through, and she was sympathetic for a little bit because her conscience caught up with her, and then it devolved into really vicious minimizing, invalidating, gaslighting, victim-blaming, and trying to shame me back into accepting the Perfect Family Narrative. When this was over, I remembered running to her crying after a lot of the abuse happened... calling her before I suspected it'd happen, or after it did... begging for help, for something. So, she knew the whole time, but I Just blocked those memories out because it really hurt to think about. Either way, I'm glad I had that conversation with her almost a decade ago, because that day I realized we can never have a normal relationship (not that we ever did), and she's just as bad as her husband is.

Anyway, since then, I know not to talk to her about the abuse and I've only slipped up a couple of times (sometimes I took the bait - never take the bait). There's no point. They've chosen their side. Every excuse is evidence of their conscience catching up with them. My mom would occasionally make sassy little remarks about "you know, it's very trendy for girls to make up stories about being sexually abused these days...". Oh, she knew. It got under my skin, but I knew she wouldn't be saying it if she wasn't trying to convince both of us of something stupid. Just like your mom wouldn't have left that book in her wish list if she wasn't trying to convince you both of something stupid.

As evil as it is, making someone into a scapegoat actually makes a lot of sense. It's a lot easier for them to paint us as mentally unstable people who make up stories for attention, "refuse to get help", and other silly nonsense. It makes more sense to excommunicate us from the family than it does to admit that they allowed terrible abuses to happen, that their husbands and uncles and brothers are abusers, that their own parents raised them to think this was all healthy and good (they almost always grew up in similar levels of dysfunction), that many people including themselves could even be held criminally liable, etc. I wonder if the scapegoat in families with multiple children is the one that develops critical thinking skills and starts questioning stuff earlier and better than the others do? Anyway, you've been downgraded to being a pain in the ass - one pain in the ass, and unfortunately, our moms decided that we're not worth the risk of criticizing and potentially losing their greater family system. It sucks, but with that knowledge, you can move forward and stop trying to fix the unfixable.

NC is easier said than done, but you'll feel a lot better in general when you move out. NC might even happen naturally... but it's fine to take baby steps towards it, if it's the decision you want to make. You won't change her mind. She didn't have the right judgment to care for a child, she's missing bits and pieces of what a healthy conscience would be, she's already basically told you what to expect from her. Listen to what she's actually saying by placing bait or playing mind tricks.

[donutmoonpanda]

I can relate to this. My enabling N-mom knew that I was being physically and sexually abused. I think she was literally always there when it happened. Yet she also minimizes it, invalidates it, and won't stop using me as a scapegoat. The family dynamic was that I was the scapegoat for everyone. I thought that dynamic would change when N-dad divorced her, but after a decade she's actually much worse to be around. She's not sorry I was abused, pretends she didn't know much about it, and scapegoats me (I was a such a difficult child, it was such a huge burden on her).

Going no contact has allowed me to see her more clearly. I can see how she participated in the abuse. I can see where she set me up, did her best to make sure I was getting the worst of it instead of her, and used me as a shield and as a pawn. I can see she viewed me as competition, but also liked that I "took the heat" off her. I see how she set me up for failure and refused to help me with anything in regard to education or just normal childhood endeavors.

We live hundreds of miles apart and I am no longer in contact with her in any way. Our lives are totally separate. It's the space of not having to see her, listen to her rehearse the same old stories and dynamics, not having to play the role she cast me in, that pulled back the curtain. I can see very plainly that she doesn't even really like me very much. I knew that as a child, but I pushed those feelings aside. I actually had the right idea as a kid, I just didn't want to believe it. If she could have, she would have sold me for anything.

From this vantage I can see how she ochestrates her life, image is all that matters, and I am just a pawn. There are so many lies she tells people about me, and I'll never know what they are. She will say whatever serves a purpose for her in that moment. I am just a convenient instrument that she uses to cast herself in a favorable light with her friends and relatives (who she also hates).

If your situation is anything like mine, that book may have been part of some story she tells about you. It could be a prop for when she talks to someone about you. The book might be background research for some yarn she plans to spin later because she sees the writing on the wall (i.e., you're trying to talk about your abuse experience and bring it into the light of day).

I agree with moglow, remove yourself from any joint accounts. Give yourself lots of space, and perhaps like easterncappy said then NC will happen naturally. But even if it doesn't, space is where the real healing can begin.

[JustKat]

I also think she may have put this in the "saved for later" purposefully so that I would see it if I went to purchase anything on the account. That section pops up before you can check out or make other purchases. I'm not going to give her a reaction.

That was my thought when I started reading your post. She absolutely put that book there on purpose. She has no intention of buying it or reading it. Instead, she placed it in a spot where you'd see it in the hope of getting a reaction out of you. Please don't let it get to you and don't question your mental health because of it. You're a trauma survivor who suffered at the hands of someone who is disordered. You are NOT the one who is mentally ill.

I agree with Moglow about setting up your own accounts and removing yourself from the joint one. If you're considering NC, you're going to want to do that anyway.

I know it's hard, but try not to let this get to you, And never question your sanity. That's exactly what she wants you to do. You're okay.

Sending you a huge hug...

[intothewest26]

Thank you all for your insight. I've created a new account.

The first page of the book was talking Adam Lanza, a school shooter. The fact that she could read or think of reading something like this and equate it to anything I've done tells me all I need to know about her. 

I am a pawn as well to her and she is a victim in her mind. But that's not real. Yes I think the book probably is a prop, she's also been seeing a therapist who seems to be telling her what she wants to hear (& I seriously doubt she's told them the whole story about her boyfriend.)

Sending you all good vibes, this stuff isn't easy.

[easterncappy]

The first page of the book was talking Adam Lanza, a school shooter. The fact that she could read or think of reading something like this and equate it to anything I've done tells me all I need to know about her. 

She doesn't actually equate you to Adam Lanza, unless she's the type of PD that goes in and out of literal psychosis. Some PD's are willing to say anything to hurt your feelings and make you feel like you're going crazy.

she's also been seeing a therapist who seems to be telling her what she wants to hear (& I seriously doubt she's told them the whole story about her boyfriend.)

My MIL goes to a "therapist" who tells her that all of her abusive behavior towards my husband is actually just fine, and that it's just fine that she "talks to God". These people either find the most corrupt "therapists" out there or they omit the full truth when speaking to their legitimate therapist and then put words into the therapist's mouth.

[intothewest26]

She's never been diagnosed with psychosis that I'm aware of, but she does have some strange beliefs and magical thinking (she believes she & boyfriend knew each other in past lives because a psychic told her, which I think has helped her romanticize the relationship) But, it's entirely possible that she's just trying to make me feel crazy.

I think they make therapy all about them in the sense they use it as just another way to blame others for their actions .

[easterncappy]

She's never been diagnosed with psychosis that I'm aware of, but she does have some strange beliefs and magical thinking (she believes she & boyfriend knew each other in past lives because a psychic told her, which I think has helped her romanticize the relationship) But, it's entirely possible that she's just trying to make me feel crazy.

I think they make therapy all about them in the sense they use it as just another way to blame others for their actions .

PD's + therapy is a catch 22. If they'd just go to a legitimate, good therapist and take the whole process seriously, they'd have wonderful lives and healthy relationships, they'd probably be able to fix most of what they screwed up in life. It wouldn't magically fix everything, but it'd make a huge difference. Except the find a way to make that into a power play, too. Just goes to show that we can't reasonably expect them to change.

My mom also has a lot of magical thinking, including things like tarot, psychics, "symbolism", random superstitions that she pretends everyone in our culture believes. It's definitely not the same as psychosis, but it's very common among PD's. One of her more out-there beliefs was that everything was "the universe" punishing me for a perceived transgression from when I was like, a mushy-brained teenager with a bad family life - that one I'm not sure if she really believed, or if it was just supposed to get under my skin.

That being said, I don't think comparing you to a mass shooter qualifies as magical thinking. She'd have to have a seriously loose relationship with reality if she actually thought that. I'm talking "the government put wires in my dog to spy on me" levels of coo coo. The entire book incident seems just like a way to hurt your feelings, get under your skin, and produce some sweet drama for her entertainment.

[donutmoonpanda]

I think if she's in therapy and telling a lot of lies to cast herself in a particular light, the book plays into that big time. She may even say the therapist "recommended" that she get that book. Who knows?

My Mom needs to look like the victim, the person holding everything together despite everyone around her who are just emotional timebombs. Nothing she tells other people has any basis in reality. It's just a convenient idea she had, held up in the right light she can use it to make herself look sympathetic and charitable. That's all she wants. I've heard her say off the wall things, like that my eyes used to be blue, but alas she is not clinically delusional. She's just a liar.

[intothewest26]

Oh yeah she's definitely painting herself in a certain light. When I think about it there's really no good way you can spin "almost certainly knew about my daughter's abuse, and currently aware of my boyfriends dangerous behavior and previous criminal record." 

I think my mom is most likely not delusional as well just has strange beliefs and obviously no sense of safety .

[easterncappy]

Oh yeah she's definitely painting herself in a certain light. When I think about it there's really no good way you can spin "almost certainly knew about my daughter's abuse, and currently aware of my boyfriends dangerous behavior and previous criminal record." 

I think my mom is most likely not delusional as well just has strange beliefs and obviously no sense of safety .

I experienced something similar. My mom knew, but always claimed to not know. So I'm assuming that if the therapist is legitimate (and they don't have to be), your mom's lying about not knowing.

Read the Ultimate Betrayal by Audrey Ricker. They always know. You cannot go 20+ years without knowing. But you can go 20+ years pretending that you didn't know.

[moglow]

ITW, denial ain't just a river in Eqypt, as they say. By pretending to not know and/or ignoring and overpowering all attempts to broach the subject with her, she can claim anything, that you're delusional, it never happened, she was certainly not responsible for your welfare as the parent etc. In her world those things are true and what you're saying is not. Period.


As time's gone on I've realized so many things about mine, including how very limited she really is. As my brother said recently, once certain lights come on and doors are open, you can't ignore them. You learn to deal with a very different reality from hers and at the same time how fruitless and frustrating it is to try and explain pretty much anything.

If you could have uber limited contact after and were comfortable with that, do it. You might just find that's not enough and you want no part of the fringes of her world either. I wouldn't deny mine what I could reasonably provide, but damned if I'm putting myself out there to fix things that aren't mine anymore. I did that way too long and paid the price for it.

[easterncappy]

ITW, denial ain't just a river in Eqypt, as they say. By pretending to not know and/or ignoring and overpowering all attempts to broach the subject with her, she can claim anything, that you're delusional, it never happened, she was certainly not responsible for your welfare as the parent etc. In her world those things are true and what you're saying is not. Period.


As time's gone on I've realized so many things about mine, including how very limited she really is. As my brother said recently, once certain lights come on and doors are open, you can't ignore them. You learn to deal with a very different reality from hers and at the same time how fruitless and frustrating it is to try and explain pretty much anything.

If you could have uber limited contact after and were comfortable with that, do it. You might just find that's not enough and you want no part of the fringes of her world either. I wouldn't deny mine what I could reasonably provide, but damned if I'm putting myself out there to fix things that aren't mine anymore. I did that way too long and paid the price for it.

Sexually abusing children is obviously a criminal offense, but so is failing to report it if you know it's happening, which contradicts a lot of these moms' "I'm an innocent bystander who had no part in it because I wasn't the one who physically did it" narrative - they're every bit as responsible and it eats away at what little conscience they have. You're right on everything, too. It boils down to them having too much to lose from admitting that it happened... but they know. My mom would not get nearly as defensive about the topic of child sexual abuse with all of her weird theories, insulting assumptions about men, snarky comments, victim blaming total strangers whose stories made it in the news, etc. if she didn't know. She'd just drop it if she was confident in the load of crap she was trying to convince both of us of.

A lot of their behavior, especially once we're grown and have shown them that we don't play nice anymore, is an attempt at convincing themselves of certain things. It's really pathetic to witness.