Numb and unmotivated - normal in later life after abusive childhood?

[mandiwoodland]

Just wondering if this is a common outcome and how on earth to counter it.    I was the only child of a narcissistic emotionally abusive and neglectful mother.   Fed and clothed but that was it.    Am now in late middle age, with grown up children all happily settled.   Husband amiable but I suspect on the spectrum.    Have been to counselling and realised I had needs!    Never acknowledged and never met.    I was an anxious little girl, always worried about doing the wrong thing and very tense as mother tended to uncontrolled rages at the drop of a hat and it was always my fault.    At the same time made me feel responsible for her.    The default was No if ever I asked for anything - to go anywhere, have friends over, have anything.   Then she might think it over and greatly generous might say yes, but the joy had been sucked out of whatever it was.

So now I seem to have come a full stop.   Not interested in anything, unmotivated - everything feels empty.   I have to force myself to go for a walk, do gardening, try and find hobbies.    Things I have to do I do (visiting grandchildren, friends, even holidays) I do with good grace and seem to be having fun, but inside it feels like going through the motions.   I have read The Body Keeps the Score and think I am probably suffering from a sort of PTSD but I have no idea how to deal with it.    Counselling helped me to see the problems and to try and love myself, but there's no magic bullet and the emptiness goes on.

Do other people feel like this?   How to deal?

[guitarman]

Welcome. You are not alone.

I can relate to what you posted about although our situations are different.

I have an undiagnosed BPD/NPD sister. I have experienced a lot of stress, trauma and worry because of her abusive behaviour for decades.

I am living with depression and probably CPTSD as well.

I was prescribed a Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction course by my doctor several years ago and have kept practising Mindfulness meditations ever since. That has helped.

I follow the Mindfulness teacher Tara Brach. She gives regular free talks.

www.tarabrach.com

I have recently found out about the UK therapist Alex Howard and have watched his free summits about trauma and anxiety.

I have a poor memory so find it difficult to remember and concentrate but I found it all very interesting.

https://www.alexhoward.com/

He also has a YouTube channel.

I tell people that being around my uBPD/NPD sister is like living in a war zone never knowing when the next bomb will drop. I have been living with anticipatory dread and hyper vigilance for a long time. All the stress and trauma has impacted my body and mind.

I post often in the Other Media Resources section of the forum where I pass on information about things that I've found useful.

Keep calm. Stay strong. Stay safe. Keep posting.

[treesgrowslowly]

Hello and welcome,

Yes...I myself thought oh I'll go to therapy and they will help me address all of the things.

Turns out they have not had much advice for me on the emptiness piece you describe - so I can relate.

What you wrote about is on my mind because I'm also at mid life. I did the therapy and parented in a way that broke the cycle of PD FOG, but I also don't feel "energized" by things like gardening. That emptiness is real.

For me, part of it is a new disappointment.  Other women my age are not talking about the things that I think are most important at this stage of life.

Lots of women my age range are off gardening...are they enjoying it or going through the motions? Why won't they talk about that? Why is midlife a time of so much small talk?

I have no answers, just share in your questions. I am glad you are here!

I've been reflecting on how to bring more "joy" into my life, whatever that means , and scratch my head a lot. On bad days I think that the trauma has made It so that joy is just not realistic for me. Especially in mid life.

I've been thinking about how to feel nurtured. Because I do wonder if feeling nurtured would connect me to more emotion and less of that numb feeling. I've also been starting to realize that the other midlife people I meet probably fall into one of 3 categories...maybe. one group is those without trauma histories, they are just doing what works for them and their life makes sense to them and they simply live it . I have recently noticed in the last year or so, how rarely I feel seen by those folks. They are so used to their lifestyle, they can't fathom what survivors of PD parents have lived. The small talk with them never goes anywhere deeper. I think this leads to me numbing out. At midlife I crave more if I'm going to go out and socialize.

I'm numbing out less when I'm alone -which is progress. Do you find that solitude and alone time is hard to manage? Or is that when you feel less numb?

Therapists are great at saying join a club, take an art class....but I don't find those things have helped with the stuff you describe.

Maybe together we can keep this discussion going. All I can really say is I hear you. I am feeling that stuff too.

Midlife is hard!

Trees

[mandiwoodland]

guitarman - thank you for your reply and the websites which I hadn't come across before.    I am sorry you have such a difficult sister.   My mother is dead for which I am very thankful, but it sounds as though things are still very stressful for you as well as all the residual mental trauma. "I have been living with anticipatory dread and hyper vigilance for a long time. All the stress and trauma has impacted my body and mind. "    This is completely how I feel.

treesgrowslowly - everything you say chimes with me.   I tend to be better amongst people but like you I get frustrated with triviality and increasingly dislike parties and gatherings.   I have a few like minded friends and meeting up with them is a relief, but it's few and far between.    The trouble is society is so superficial now.  And cynical.   So it feels like swimming against the tide to want to talk about anything a bit deeper.

So no, it's when I'm alone that I feel worse.   Trying to fill the time with something worthwhile.   Like you, I've taken the advice and done a degree, joined endless classes - yoga, art, walking, meditation, you name it.    But nothing engenders that passion that some people feel for their hobbies.   I so envy that.  Therapists say remember what gave you joy as a child, but when I look back, I don't think there was anything apart from getting away from my mother if and when I was allowed to play with other children.    As you say, perhaps the pathways set up in childhood that lead to the ability to feel enthusiasm and passion, were stamped on and withered away for lack of use.    I felt responsibility far too young and my whole life has been spent "doing my duty".   I'm exhausted in every way and drained.   

Thank you both for replying.    As you say trees, it feels as though there is no resolution, but it's comforting to know one isn't alone.
mandi

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi mandiwoodland,

Everything  you wrote resonates with me too.

It can feel like there are just so few people who age into a life of depth. We end up at gatherings that like you say, feel trivial to us.

What are some of the things from the book the body keeps the score that resonated for you?

I think there are a lot of us who have come to learn that we don't really benefit from superficial socializing after a certain point.

I do suspect that feeling numb might be what happens after we just get tired of not feeling heard. Or we get tired of giving things we don't want to give anymore. Like listening to people talk about what's on their mind...and then realizing they tuned us out as soon as we tried to share what's been on our mind that day or week.

I often come home from socializing and realize I really didn't share much about myself at all. The older I get the more I just want to stay home instead of going through that over and over!

What I've learned as the daughter of a narc mother (DONM) is that Going numb is one way our body protected us when we were small. We may or may not recall how young we actually were when our body first figured out that going numb gave us a break from feeling the anxiety.

Personally, even though my childhood memories are spotty, I believe that I had periods of going numb pretty early in life. The anxiety was unbearable for my then under-developed nervous system.

Going numb kept me from feeling constantly overwhelmed with fear.

When I hit adulthood, I looked for people to bond to. Looking back now  I numbed out a lot back then too, because a lot of those people were not good people to bond to.

I can recall times where I was numb during dates and still dated the person because I had no idea how this going numb wasn't normal!

And then alone time...I might go numb emotionally just to get through it, or just so the mental noise of my anxiety could be turned down long enough to get to sleep.

I still have times where my brain goes numb. I think that feeling numb can be a way of taking a break from feeling the other stuff- the disappointment or anxiety we carry inside because most people don't really show up for us unless we are useful to them in some way. Only a few people will ever get to know us well. It's the culture we live in now. Superficial.

I've learned that a lot of people even if they are older, still don't know how to get to know us.

Our narc mother didn't really know us, and now these people around us today only know parts of us too. It's a lot.

I can recall events from the recent past where I felt numb while socializing because the person I was with had no interest in a 2 way conversation. These experiences are so very common.

There comes a time for some of us where we realize we are too tired to engage with people in the same way we did before. We are tired of listening to people talk to us about superficial things. And we don't know where or how to express how tired we are.

Don't beat yourself up about not having a hobby you feel passionate about. When therapists tell us to return to the things that gave us joy as children, that's fine if that is helpful but for some people it's totally not helpful since like you said, some of us don't have those memories in the first place. A good therapist these days should understand that and I totally get that a lot don't.

We women are bombarded with messages that our happiness lies in our social connections. We are expected to have passions and joys and healthy relationships, and when we don't , it's not hard to find someone who blames us and says we didn't try hard enough.

I think that's all BS to be honest. A lot of us spent years taking care of others. We had the insight and fortitude and empathy to care for others.

After taking care of others for a lot of your life, feeling numb could be a way of managing (legitimate) caregiver burnout. What do you think?

Trees

[SonofThunder]

Mandi, Guitar and Trees,

Im so very sorry you all experience the topics discussed on this thread.  I don't have anything to add, but I do have a question.

Because domestic types of animals don't act in ways that are typical of difficult humans, making them a joy to interact with (even though they can display trauma behaviors) and some of these animals suffer (also) so very greatly in the hands of difficult humans: 

Have any of you found any of the motivation and/or anti-numbness you seek, as a loving, helping volunteer at an animal shelter (dog, cat, horse rescue for example)? 

I believe that animals have a way of empathizing with humans that have also suffered greatly so the understanding and giving/providing can go both ways.  In a way, i believe traumatized humans can potentially use their traumas for good in these ways without having to take an animal home, which can be traumatizing lol. And in other ways, the traumatized human gets a fresh supply of loving and grateful interaction with the animals as necessary fuel for the emotions. 

I do not volunteer at an animal shelter, for time reasons, but I have family members who do, and they find such incredible deep joy in doing so. 

SoT

[NarcKiddo]

I felt like that increasingly starting in my late 30s. In my late 40s I discovered fitness. I'd always paid lip service but I discovered boxing and weight lifting. Things my mother does not understand and disapproves of, which is a bonus. They really give me a huge physical buzz and help me work off the adrenaline of my totally over-primed fight/flight response.

All I can really advise is to keep trying new things in the hope something will click for you. And to give them a fair chance, because when we feel down it is easy to quit before seeing benefits.

Hugs.

[M0009803]

Just wondering if this is a common outcome and how on earth to counter it.    I was the only child of a narcissistic emotionally abusive and neglectful mother.   Fed and clothed but that was it.    Am now in late middle age, with grown up children all happily settled.   Husband amiable but I suspect on the spectrum.    Have been to counselling and realised I had needs!    Never acknowledged and never met.    I was an anxious little girl, always worried about doing the wrong thing and very tense as mother tended to uncontrolled rages at the drop of a hat and it was always my fault.    At the same time made me feel responsible for her.    The default was No if ever I asked for anything - to go anywhere, have friends over, have anything.   Then she might think it over and greatly generous might say yes, but the joy had been sucked out of whatever it was.

So now I seem to have come a full stop.   Not interested in anything, unmotivated - everything feels empty.   I have to force myself to go for a walk, do gardening, try and find hobbies.    Things I have to do I do (visiting grandchildren, friends, even holidays) I do with good grace and seem to be having fun, but inside it feels like going through the motions.   I have read The Body Keeps the Score and think I am probably suffering from a sort of PTSD but I have no idea how to deal with it.    Counselling helped me to see the problems and to try and love myself, but there's no magic bullet and the emptiness goes on.

Do other people feel like this?   How to deal?

This happened to me as well in my 30s.

You can define it as low level depression (dysthymia) which is correlated to the abuse you suffered growing up. 

Agree that physical activities can improve your moods (hiking, sports etc), and having a cat/dog around is also very beneficial (they really do help to improve your mood & emotions over time).

[Srcyu]

Hello, I grew up with the word, 'No' as well. My mother is also dead which does not cause me any upset.

I feel like you do quite often.
Music helps. Spotify gives me an never ending supply.

[Spring Butterfly]

Numb, overwhelm and other feelings you describe is what happens when fight / flight reaches a tipping point. It's our nervous system safety switch. We were not designed to rev our nervous system gas pedal indefinitely. I've been studying our amazing nervous system in depth. It's functioning as designed. It's keeping us alive, sleeping and eating, until we can calm enough to come back into living. I have a ton of research that is absolutely amazing and is helping me heal the last little bits of myself.

[Phoenix18]

There comes a time for some of us where we realize we are too tired to engage with people in the same way we did before. We are tired of listening to people talk to us about superficial things. And we don't know where or how to express how tired we are.

Yes. I can so relate to this.

[i remember now]

Yes. I can relate.
What really helped for me with the energy was  body things. Like food, everything to get my system kicking again out of the fatigue. Vitamines, lemon and salt, lots of water. Exercise. Then i stopped, but i had to start again or i go right back to the survival coping. So yes...untraumatizing the body I suppose. Also talking and starting to unravel all that was not mine to begin with. A process of becoming unhooked from that what was not real but learned. A process it is. Still working on it everyday bit by bit. But getting out of survival is possible and a bit strange and new.  Weightlifting is really a big help for this. But easy as it comes. Bit by bit... getting to know your body without escaping. There are off days. And indeed pets are good. Mine helped me feel again to. I hope you find what works for you

[Phoenix18]

Hi Mandiwoodland, I'm very new here too. I just wanted to say that what you said about feeling unmotivated and numb resonates with me as well. Our situations are different, but I think the effects of various kinds of ongoing trauma can have similar results. Basically I'm figuring out that feeling certain emotions is painful, so I've developed coping mechanisms not to have to feel them. This results in overall not feeling much of anything. There's a lot to unpack here. But I just wanted to answer your question that no, you are not the only one who feels this way. You're not alone.

[Happypants]

I have a spare room completely filled with hobby paraphernalia- sewing machine, art materials, knitting needles, puzzle books, stained glass making equipment, recipe books, camping equipment. etc.  A couple of those activities have stuck and I dabble in them now and then, but ironically, only when I'm already feeling a little more buoyed than usual.

But the things that lift me without fail are:

Playing/training/walking my dogs - trying to see their world (and me as part of it) through their eyes gives me a feeling of self-worth but also responsibility. We live as a team and although they are far more complicated than our culture leads us to believe, there is no power play, desire to control, or any of the painful dynamics I associate with people. But they live at the mercy of their nervous system, something I can fully identify and empathise with, and it's up to me to balance managing their lives while giving them agency.  Animals are levellers.

Trail running - unfortunately a dodgy knee has scuppered this activity for a while.  Instead, I now walk in nature but for me the real therapeutic advantage of trail running was a combination of being in a novel and humbling environment, getting out of breath, and most importantly, having to plan every step on uneven terrain - there's no room for mistakes so no other thoughts or rumination could take place. It felt like moving meditation without having to try if that makes sense.

For me, anything that removes me from my everyday environment, unapologetically demands 100% of my focus, gets me moving and gives a feeling of accomplishment is a winner. It's actually not about having exercised as such.  No need to push myself out of my comfort zone as the need for self-care dictates a reduction in stress.

Hope this is of some help!