Incompetence - weaponized vs actual

wisingup · September 16, 2022, 11:07:58 PM

Backstory - I am vvvlc with uBPDmom, but I manage her finances since her last bout of UTI-associated dementia about a year ago. She's always been clueless with money. My parents suffered a pretty devastating financial reversal in their 50s, the effects of which carry on to the present for both of us.

So mom didn't file her taxes for 2020. Apparently she was told by an AARP volunteer that if she didn't owe anything, she didn't have to file. Well our state seems to disagree & has been sending strongly worded letters threatening penalties. With each letter, she has opened it, presumably read it, the tossed it on the pile of bills that I pick up from her once a month. As luck would have it, both letters arrived right after my pickup day, so that the requested action was overdue by the time I saw the letter. I spent a panicked day gathering the requested info to respond to the first letter. It didn't satisfy the issue though & in the second letter that I saw for the fist time today, they requested that she file by 9/14/22. That being 2 days ago. I just couldn't face the thought of spending my weekend trying to do her 2 year old taxes. (I did do 2021 and will do future years).

Our relationship is poor right now, but I can't even begin to understand how she could read these letters & not immediately notify me about them. Or mention that they are in the pile when I come for pickup. Or show any interest or concern about if I have time to deal with this. Just "whatever, this is WisingUp's problem, not mine."

So I wonder if they provoke so much anxiety in her that she just can't face it. She and my dad did have some major issues with the IRS along with the financial meltdown they went through. But it really sucks to keep being handed these "turd sandwiches" as DH calls them, that she doesn't even acknowledge.

So this one I have handed back to her. I told her that they will begin to assess penalties. She needs to contact AARP & have them help her through this. I'll gather any 2020 records I have & get them back to her. It's going to take some phone calls, probably some digging around for records & maybe requesting copies. It's basically just a giant hassle, but in my mind this hassle belongs to her, not me.

But my fear & my prediction is that she just won't do it. She will pull the "poor me, I don't understand any of this, I can't manage it". And maybe she truly can't. This is where I can't tell true incompetence from her just being too anxious or disinterested. I think it's easier for her just to shove the issue onto me & ignore it.

But I really don't want to clean up this mess for her. For better or worse, I've handed it back.

nanotech · September 17, 2022, 03:15:14 AM

Hmmm I don't know about US taxes at all. I know they are a chore. I think you are 100 per cent right to step back from this.
If your mum plays dumb on this then she can employ an accountant. Not your circus, not your monkeys, especially when it's financial. I suggest a third party involvement whenever whenever I can with my bunch of PDs. It works a treat because they can't apply the toxicity to non family members.

I just think you shouldn't be doing any tax returns.

You wrote:

"I spent a panicked day gathering the requested info to respond to the first letter."

That's a day you'll never get back. And it didn't solve it? Not your responsibility.

NarcKiddo · September 17, 2022, 08:06:16 AM

Does it make a difference to you if she can't or if she won't?

I agree with nanotech that it looks like the best course of action is simply not to do her tax returns. Then whether she can't or won't makes not the vaguest difference to you. If you are going to allow yourself to be given hassle if she "can't" but not if she "won't" then how are you going to tell the difference? She has a big trump card to play. And the IRS or AARP or whoever (I am not in the US so don't fully understand your system) will feel that they have some leverage over someone else (you) to solve her/their hassle.

wisingup · September 17, 2022, 08:41:52 AM

Thanks - I agree this one is hers to solve. Being an anxious sort myself, I always imagine these things blowing up into bigger problems if she won't deal with them, & it will eventually land on me to deal with down the road anyway.

My brother and I are in favor of her moving to assisted living as soon as she agrees, as she is at a point where she needs this. But financially, she's only got enough for maybe 4-5 years in AL. If she blows through her money faster, that's more out of the pocket of my brother & I while we are trying to retire ourselves, or she goes to whatever facility Medicare will cover in our area. I'm already imagining the guilt I will feel doing some of the traveling that DH and I hope to do in retirement while she's in a Medicare facility. I know - not my responsibility, but ugh.

I can't help but compare to my DH's parents who have made all pre-arrangements & basically provided us with a contact person for when they pass, which will put the whole plan into action without much effort on DH's part.

I'm really just venting & working through my FOG here - thanks for reading / listening!

square · September 17, 2022, 09:06:12 AM

FYI, I have heard of facilities where the person pays out of pocket but when they run out the facility keeps the person and accepts Medicaid instead. I don't know exactly how it works but a distant relative of mine did that, plus my mom's friend was looking at a place that offered something like that.

Do NOT take out of YOUR retirement to cover for a parent who didn't plan ahead.

olivegirl · September 17, 2022, 10:27:52 PM

The book Understanding the Borderline Book explains that the Queen Mother (Bpd/Npd) will put on airs of helplessness to manipulate adult children to rescue her and make the financial problem go away.

This fits. my mother! She and my father intentionally refuse to save for their retirement and now think I'll just pay for it or take them in.

The only way to survive and keep one's sanity and protect one's marriage is to let our PD parents deal with the consequences of their irresponsible actions!

Otherwise it will never be good enough for them and it will cause financial strain for us and lead to resentment in our marriage.

Naturally my mother doesn't care if her impossible expectations or lack of funds cause major stress in my life! I was born to be subservient to her in her eyes.

Currently I am NC because my mother—despite my repeated warnings to downsize and start saving—asked "who will be responsible for me?"

I. WAS. FLOORED.

wisingup · September 18, 2022, 08:51:07 AM

QuoteCurrently I am NC because my mother—despite my repeated warnings to downsize and start saving—asked "who will be responsible for me?"

It's crazy isn't it? How do they get this way, thinking that they are entitled to have someone else solve their problems?

Today I will round up any 2020 tax-related documents I have in my possession & either email them or drop them off with her, along with the past-due tax letter. If she doesn't deal with it, the penalties will grow & she will have less money for her years in AL and more time in a Medicare facility. (Honestly, I don't know exactly how all that works, as we are just starting down that road). And that will be the consequence of her action.

I will continue to struggle with FOG. It's so hard to watch someone create their own problems & refuse to solve them.

Cat of the Canals · September 18, 2022, 01:55:56 PM

I imagine this was really, really hard for you, but I want to give you a round of applause for sending this turd sandwich back to the kitchen.

Here's the thing, whether it's AARP or H&R Block or a CPA, there are tons of resources out there to help people figure out their taxes. The fact that she has consulted with anyone at any point, as she did with the AARP volunteer, suggests she indeed knows taxes are a thing she has to take care of. So my gut says this is incompetence of the weaponized variety. Maybe facing the consequences will teach her a lesson. Maybe it won't. But I can say with almost 100% certainty that she won't learn anything if you clean it up for her.

Sneezy · September 18, 2022, 08:19:41 PM

Your mom may be able to get free tax help from the AARP for this issue, but if not, worst case, she will have to pay H&R Block or an accountant to fix her tax problem. It's definitely something she can handle. And when the day comes that she can't handle her own taxes, you are still not obligated to do them. Just take all her paperwork to H&R Block and have them do it. That's what they're there for.

As far as paying for assisted living, I agree with what others have said above. Do not dip into your retirement savings for this. Again, let's look at the worst case - your mom can spend down all her assets and then Medicaid will kick in. If you think this is what will ultimately happen, start looking for a Medicaid facility sooner, rather than later. Some of the them have waitlists. And do not feel guilty about enjoying your own retirement. Old age has its difficulties for everyone, and living in a Medicaid funded assisted living facility is not the worst thing that can happen to someone. There are also facilities that charge rent based on income. Even after your mom spends down all her assets, she will still be getting her monthly social security check. Depending on how much that is, she may qualify for reduced rent through a state-sponsored or federal-sponsored program for low-income seniors.

wisingup · September 18, 2022, 08:57:01 PM

I just dropped off the papers. It did not go well. Apparently, she does not like receiving turd sandwiches anymore than I do.

What would have been nice to hear is something like - "OK, I'll make some calls & see what I need to do. Thank you for taking care of all of my other financial issues for the past year."

What I actually heard:

Why are you suddenly springing this on me?
I don't even know what you're talking about - I didn't even read those letters.

And my personal favorite:
I don't understand this stuff - your dad always dealt with it. (My dad died in 2004)

Ugh. But it's in her hands now & I'm slowly making headway on being be able to manage everything online going forward, so I won't even have to see her once in a month. If she is unhappy with my efforts going forward, I can step away entirely & leave her to it.

wisingup · September 19, 2022, 02:51:26 PM

Update - predictably, she called my brother in hysterics this morning and told him she can't deal with this and that I just dumped this on her out of nowhere.

TimetoHeal · September 20, 2022, 06:50:12 PM

Ugh, wisingup!

Is your brother on the same page as you, or is he in the FOG?

Cat of the Canals · September 21, 2022, 03:37:34 PM

So when she dumps it in YOUR lap out of nowhere, that's just dandy. But you expecting her to take responsibility for HER OWN TAXES is over the line. Funny how that works.

wisingup · September 22, 2022, 01:38:25 AM

QuoteIs your brother on the same page as you, or is he in the FOG?

Time to Heal - he understands what she is. That being said, I have gotten the majority of this behavior from her over the years because A) I'm the daughter & expectations for caretaking were higher and B) I took it for a lot of years whereas he would yell back or just leave when she got bad.

He immediately called me & I explained the whole situation. He is more convinced than I am that her incompetence is real & is going to help her to some degree, which may just be listening to more hysterics and trying to keep her on task with the phone calls she needs to make.

QuoteSo when she dumps it in YOUR lap out of nowhere, that's just dandy. But you expecting her to take responsibility for HER OWN TAXES is over the line. Funny how that works.

Lol, yes. My reward for taking over her finances is anger that I am not doing even more.

moglow · September 22, 2022, 03:05:07 PM

QuoteSo mom didn't file her taxes for 2020. Apparently she was told by an AARP volunteer that if she didn't owe anything, she didn't have to file. Well our state seems to disagree & has been sending strongly worded letters threatening penalties. With each letter, she has opened it, presumably read it, the tossed it on the pile of bills that I pick up from her once a month. As luck would have it, both letters arrived right after my pickup day, so that the requested action was overdue by the time I saw the letter. I spent a panicked day gathering the requested info to respond to the first letter. It didn't satisfy the issue though & in the second letter that I saw for the fist time today, they requested that she file by 9/14/22. That being 2 days ago. I just couldn't face the thought of spending my weekend trying to do her 2 year old taxes. (I did do 2021 and will do future years).

QuoteUpdate - predictably, she called my brother in hysterics this morning and told him she can't deal with this and that I just dumped this on her out of nowhere.

Wait. Hold up. She dumped HER overdue 2020 tax issues on YOU, but this is somehow "out of nowhere" ??? Lord give me [and you!] strength.

wisingup · September 22, 2022, 11:28:24 PM

Moglow - yep, you've read that right.

And heres some additional weirdness. I've had a medical issue of my own the last couple months. I can't drive until I am medically cleared. So she decided to take it upon herself to pay her rent this month, even though I'd already paid it, because she "didn't want to bother me while I was ill." But somehow, me having to deal with her 2 year old taxes & nasty letters from the state tax board is OK while I'm ill.

It makes no sense, & I'll drive myself crazy trying to understand why she says and does the things she does. The only consistency is the lack of maturity & the lack of consideration for others.

NarcKiddo · September 23, 2022, 08:42:59 AM

Quote from: wisingup on September 18, 2022, 08:57:01 PM
Apparently, she does not like receiving turd sandwiches anymore than I do.

Ha ha! This made me laugh.

I'm sorry you are having to deal with this idiocy. But now she has roped your brother in I hope she and he can just sort it out between themselves and give you a break.

SonofThunder · September 23, 2022, 09:26:32 AM

Creatively and competently weaponized is my opinion from my own experiences and like you, I would hand back as well.

I always ask myself, with my elderly uPDf, that if I experienced this when he was not elderly, then even now that he is elderly, it is still competently weaponized. If what I experience is new from him, now that he's elderly, I will consider elderliness as a possible reason to add to PD behaviors.

If I believe that what I experience is the same competent weaponization, regardless of his being elderly, I will fully boundary myself regarding. If I believe that his old age is causing some of my experience, I will only boundary what portions of the experience I believe are weaponization, and I will be more gentle regarding the elderly-caused portions of my experience.

No matter what, I know my father is a PD, and my PD boundaries are enforced at all times, but elderly traits alone, may require a potentially changing response from me at times, which may result in my patience level having to slightly increase solely because of elderly traits alone.

Im desiring to practice my own definition of love with all humans, and regarding elderly traits, I want to treat all elderly humans the same at the start, even though I know that some very difficult personalities will require me to differentiate with them in particular and apply my boundaries to self-protect as I deal with these emotionally difficult humans in particular.

SoT

lkdrymom · September 23, 2022, 12:10:55 PM

Has she assigned financial POA to either of you? If so, then you are stuck with solving this.

I did my father's taxes for several years. One year I brought the return to him and told him he needed to sign it then mail it. I already had postage on the envelope. Weeks later he gets a letter from the IRS telling him there was a problem with his return. He screamed at me that I screwed up his taxes! When I looked at the letter it said they received it...unsigned. I let him have it with both barrels on that one.

square · September 23, 2022, 12:39:38 PM

Quote from: lkdrymom on September 23, 2022, 12:10:55 PM
Has she assigned financial POA to either of you? If so, then you are stuck with solving this.

Is that true? I am my mom's POA (never exercised it, she just did it while getting affairs in order years ago), and I never signed anything or agreed to anything. I understood it to mean that I have the ability to make decisions on her hehalf, but if I were to be held legally responsible and accountable to do so, what is stopping toxic people from just signing over all their responsibilities to an unwilling and possibly even ignorant party? (The only reason I know I have POA is my mom told me, I wasn't formally notified in any way).