Victimy rage from friend

[Hilly]

I’ve posted on this wise forum before about my sister, but recently a friend, also my husband’s best friends wife (just to complicate things), has lashed out at me and I’m still reeling from it.

A bit of background: my father in law has been taken very ill in hospital and we thought at one point we might lose him. It’s still very uncertain and sad and is a really difficult time. Obviously this has caused me to have to cancel seeing people so I can be around to look after the kids so my husband can regularly visit hospital.

My husband’s friends wife chose this time to call me up to tell me off about how I had only seen her a couple of times since her pet died over a year ago. I feel bad about the pet but I had no idea there was a set amount of times I was meant to see her. She was crying and ranting and furious that I had cancelled her when my father in law went into hospital, and furious that my husband had planned to go out with her husband a few days later (he needed a friend, you know). She was also angry that I had cancelled on her when I had been ill once, describing it ‘as the time you had a cough’ – I had a chest infection and in bed for a week!

She said ‘how come they get to go out together but I can’t go out with you, it’s just ridiculous’. The call went on for 45 minutes. She said she’d made a list about me (suddenly I remembered the lists she’d told me she’d made about other friends which were generally to do with all the ways they’d let her down and all their faults!), that I needed to go through all my messages and think about how I’d let her down. She said she was desperate and lonely and that all her friends had abandoned her, but it was also mixed in with little digs at me and controlling statements ‘don’t you ever go out without your kids? I’m sure you go out with other friends but not with me’ I said I was sorry she felt that way but it’s hard to make arrangements to go out and promise not to cancel at the moment because at the moment my father in law is in hospital and I have small kids to take care of. I offered for her to come over to mine in the evening and she shouted that she didn’t to ‘sit on my f***ing sofa’, that she wanted to go out not stay in. To me that just smacks of narcissistic entitlement.

The thing is I’ve been there for her as much as I possibly can, I’ve been out for a meal with her, been for coffee with her and expressed my condolences and reassured her that I’m there for her several times over text and phone calls. I’ve been for a couple of walks with her when she was feeling down (and angry at another friend for a perceived slight).

She said as well that she’s feeling paranoid that I’m trying to avoid going out with her in the evening. What complicates things is that I AM actually trying to avoid going out in the evening with her and after this phone call I don’t want to see her at all. She has an alcohol problem, and I just don’t want to enable it, sure she can be fun, but knowing the extent of her drinking it’s really horrible to be around. She drinks during the day, and I when I saw her for a coffee a few weeks ago (trying to not see her in the evening so I could avoid drinking with her) she downed a glass of wine at 11am, while I tried to talk to her about drinking. Her husband recently voiced his concern about her being suicidal and drinking alot to my husband and my husband said he thought she had a problem and needed to seek help. My husband’s friend said that his wife wanted us to know she was suicidal as well so it seems like he/she wants me to do something to rescue her, bizarrely her husband thinks that me taking her out for an evening will make things better and ‘cheer her up’. During her phone call to me she told me she was humiliated that my husband had told her husband she needed to get help for her drinking. I’ve also tried to talk to her about her drinking to suggest she gets help but she denies the problem, says its about depression or grief, and makes excuses re accessing counselling (they can afford it easily so that’s not the issue) and says she has to self medicate with alcohol due to depression.

Looking back over conversations with her I’ve realised there were so many red flags. She makes these paranoid accusations about her husbands friends and smears them and their wives, she’s critical and negative and flies into a rage at any slight criticism at her or suggestion that she for example gets a job, she’s grandiose and victimy at the same time. She blames everything on her paranoia and anxiety or mood disorder, or the menopause or ptsd or grief over her pet - the list goes on.

I just want to sense check with you good people. I feel bad for her and wish her well, but I feel I’m right to trust my gut with this and create distance. I don’t think I can do any more without being pulled into a toxic codependent mess.

[Gwendolyn]

Hello Hilly,

Sorry you are experiencing this situation with a 'sort of' friend.  When you re-read your post imagine the story is about me and my husband's best friends wife.  What would you think?  What would be my responsibility and duty to this person vs to my husband and children and my ailing father-in-law at this time?

Goading someone into socializing and inappropriate emotional dumping on them is not the way a healthy person would treat a good friend.  Would you behave as she is behaving? Does anything in your post about her rants, threats and rudeness seem remotely healthy or friendly?  Is there any upside for you to continue interactions with her?

I know my answer and I have had to go no contact with two different histrionic and difficult friends in my life. People with no boundaries and an uncanny way of getting under my skin at the worst possible moments.  Moments when I could have used support .

All I can say is she will have to find her own path in life.  That's true for all of us.
Right now  it looks like she is choosing destructive behaviors rather than recovery behaviors.

You are not a trained addictions counselor and you have no responsibility to interact with or cajole anyone...least of all the wife of your husband's bf. 

Take  deep breath and set her and her criticism and emotional bullying down.no matter what you do,  you'll become yet another person who ' let her down' in her mind.  Oh well.  That day comes for all of us when we decide that we no longer want to deal with an angry and self centered person
who brings us no joy and has proven that they are useless in a crisis. (alcoholic or not).

You and your family peace matter!!
Let your husband enjoy his friend and you have every right to say "I'm done dealing whis wife.  Not my circus, not my monkey"

Stay strong and protect your compassionate heart and save it for the days ahead.  Your family will need you more than ever.

We are so fortunate to have this forum and you are so wise to get this off your chest.

[moglow]

I'd have to wonder if she were on an[other] alcohol-induced tantrum and decimating everyone she can. In my mind [and possibly to her when I could gather my brains around me] I'd probably say: THIS. This right here is why we are where we are. I don't have time or brain for this nonsense. I'd probably encourage her to stay over there for a while. WAY over there, with her lists.
We don't have to lay down and roll over for those tantrums. Upset and disappointed she may be in others [and aren't we all at times] but that doesn't mean it's okay to go about it that way, spewing it all over others. Her rages, not your circus.

And note to self: She says she self-medicates with alcohol for her depression? You might point out to her that alcohol IS a depressant, in and of itself.

[Hilly]

Phew thanks Gwendolyn & moglow. I can't say how thankful I am to have this forum. My head has been spinning. I feel like toxic plasma has been sprayed all over me.

I've had friends go through really tough times, and none of them have ever spoken to me like that. And what you both say about not dumping on friends when you are disappointed in them is so true! There are times when friends just can't be there as much as you like - they're under pressure, have stuff to deal with and you have to just turn to another friend or process your stuff yourself. You don't call them up telling them you've made list about them and demand they wine and dine you!!

I find it interesting that my response on the phone was to fawn 'sorry sorry sorry you feel I haven't been there for you etc' (Thanks to this forum and the great Jerry Wise lm learning all about codependency and trauma responses and self differentiation!!). Also I was just so off my guard. Anyway, I'll be taking that stuff to therapy for sure.

I had this gut feeling after her husband spoke to mine, (following on from her threats to commit suicide) he said it would be nice if her friends were there for her more, she just needs a friend to go out for a meal with etc, that it would end up with me being responsible for her feelings/ rage/ emotional dis-regulation. Just how can a person think that a night out is the answer to alcoholism? That was an attempt to push the problem onto me because it's getting to a crisis point where he can't cope with her anymore.

Now he's messaged my husband to say they need to have a chat - that's either going to be an actual chat or another attempt to push the problem outwards and back onto me or even a flying monkey situation. Let's see.

Thankfully my husband gets it and agrees I shouldn't have to have anything to do with her if I don't want to so there's no conflict there.

[moglow]

Hopefully he's simply going to apologize for the way she went off on you and let y'all know that he's trying to mitigate the situation. You're not responsible for her feelings, any more than she is for yours. She can learn to manage herself better or find she has even fewer friends in future.

[Gwendolyn]

Me again Hilly 

Wow.  Is it possible angry friend and her own husband are both rather self-centered?  I mean your family is in a crisis with FIL,s health and unless you're H is receiving an apology it might be time to read up on triangulation.  If it's what I think it is: she's using her husband to waste your husband's time to convince him to force you to get in line and be "fake friends" with angry drinker lady again.

Very manipulative.

. Ps I also really get a lot from the Jerry Wise videos.

Hopefully you are Journaling a bit and taking care of the basics for the road head.  Until she's sober and in a program of recovery she's likely going to get worse and her hubby will be more desperate to foist her and her crazy making back into your world (or anywhere) you have to pity him but again, his marriage problems are nothing new and you and hubby only have this one chance to accompany FIL on his  journey and the days ahead will be busy and potentially fraught for the extended family.

Keep us posted if you have the chance.  Observe don't absorb (-jerry wise quote)

As always, disappointing to realize how situationally tone deaf some people are.
Put you and your family first.

Angry  drinking lady will find a new target if you cut supply.  You might not need to say much at all..just a united front with hubby and a plan to minimize contact for a while.

[notrightinthehead]

So much excellent support already been given here. I just want to add that for people with an alcohol problem any enabling/normalizing actually aggravates and prolongs the problem. The faster they fall and hit rock bottom the faster they come to a point where they might be open to help. Maybe some tough love would be more helpful than anything else at this point when the situation actually seems to be spiraling out of control.

[Hilly]

Ok so I’ve just had an apology via text saying that she’s sorry she was ‘so confrontational’ with me, she says it it came out of a week that was ‘very hard for her’, that she shouldn’t have called me and that it was ‘unjustified’ and that she’s sorry and hopes we can still be friends and hopes she can make it up to me.

I mean it seems like a heartfelt apology but something still doesn’t sit right.

I don’t know if I’m being a bit unreasonable but i still just feel very wary of her. I’m not sure ‘confrontational’ really describes what happened. It was more of an emotional dumping mixed with a verbal attack.

Also am I to expect this again in the future when she’s having a ‘very hard time’ and perhaps does feel she is justified in laying into me again?

I feel like a more appropriate attitude would be for her to understand that I might not want to engage with her or be around her right now, rather than trying to ‘still be friends’.

When someone has a massive go at you, you naturally feel like distancing yourself and that’s what I feel is the most healthy thing to do for me. I don’t know if that’s a bit harsh given she seems to be trying to apologise but that’s what my gut tells me.

I guess the problem is what I really really need at the moment is to be fully there for my husband and kids, and for her to just back off, go to therapy and go to AA and not demand a friendship on her terms involving going out drinking. But I know if I said any of that I’d probably be drawn into another drama which is the last thing I need!! So I just haven’t replied. 

[notrightinthehead]

This happens with people with an alcohol problem. When they are sober, they feel sorry for what they have done when they were drunk.
You wrote: "what I really really need at the moment is to be fully there for my husband and kids, and for her to just back off, go to therapy and go to AA and not demand a friendship on her terms". This is so healthy! Yes, this is exactly what you should do. And if you leave of the second half of that sentence (because you are a kind and polite person) you should even say that to her.

[lkdrymom]

If you need to speak with her I would tell her that while you appreciate the apology, you are still hurting from the pain her words caused and will need some time to heal before you can move forward.  This should buy you are much time as you need to decide if you want continued contact with her.  It also tells her that a quick 'sorry' does not automatically undo the damage. 

[moglow]

I'd have to consider - has this happened before? Did she ever apologize before? Does a "hard time" explain/excuse that kind of behavior for you?

I'd need some time to consider.

[treesgrowslowly]

Trust your gut.

I second what the others already wrote here.

You said that she told you (during her rant) that all her friends have abandonned her. That is a huge red flag.

Huge.

She raged at you, because you have empathy. Because you care. 

My bet is that most people in her life took a hard line with her and dropped her when she treated them like this. She treated you so poorly.

Self absorbed people know how to find the person with empathy in the room, trust me. She's targeting you because she thinks you won't have the same boundaries her other friends clearly have, since they have already ditched her. Likely after she treated them poorly. Most people will distance themselves from someone after a 45 minute rage rant.

She's probably looking for people who will tolerate her behaviours.

Trust your gut.

You can't make someone get out of denial about their drinking problem. If only we could. But we can't.

Trust your gut.

If she really wants to make it up to you, the first way she can make amends is to respect your need for space from her for a while..in my experience  thats where the narc types lose the plot. They say they want to make amends but if that involves giving us space  they can't do it. That's when They reveal that they can't make amends after all, they just knew the right words to say to pull us back in. Once we assert a boundary the histrionics start right back up.

Sorry if I sound cynical. Narc types will always want everything on their terms, even the repair work!!

But maybe she really is ready to respect your boundaries and needs. It's on her to demonstrate that. Not on you.

Trees

[Hilly]

Thanks so much for all your replies. I've decided to leave the whole thing alone and distance myself from her. Although she hasn't done this to me before she has done it to pretty much all of her friends and she's also lashed out at a few of her husbands friends. A few weeks ago she laid into two of her husbands friends at a party and he had to apologise for that. So there's something going on whether it's narcissism or the drinking I don't know but I'm certain I'm not qualified to deal with it and I've done as much as I can to be empathetic and try to encourage her to seek therapy and get help.

I do feel like she zoned in on me because I was listening to her and ultimately validating how she felt. Clearly she thinks that the remedy to her problems is to bulldoze my boundaries and force me into a therapy role over a few drinks (admittedly my boundaries need a bit of work!) . I think she's a bit surprised at my silence as I was so fawning and apologetic when she laid into me and it was only with time and distance I realised how dysfunctional a response that was. Then it took a few days for her to apologise...

I feel for her husband who was thoroughly depressed on the phone to my husband last night, probably due to having to deal with her, but I'm not having him push the problem out on to me again.

[Srcyu]

She is not a friend. She is a problem. One that you don't need right now.