User behaviors from mostly nice friends

[Hattie]

Hi, hope everyone is having a good weekend. I wanted to share something I'm struggling with today. 

I have a few friends who live together in a commune. They are nice people but sometimes display user type behaviors...idk, perhaps they have "fleas" from their FOOs.

Lately they've been throwing a lot of "parties" where they invite friends round to help them work on their house. They try and make out like we'll be contributing to a community event with a particular set of values, but as far as I can see, it's just doing DIY on their house for them. Initially these events were well attended, but now the numbers are dwindling and they are becoming increasingly pushy with those of us still involved.

I said I would go along this weekend at some point for an hour or two and next thing I know, I've been signed up on a rota to do several hours of hard labour!! I got really angry as I felt used and then ended up getting a migraine. I now don't feel well enough to go anyway because of the migraine! I guess my body is "keeping the score"!

I feel bad cancelling which is probably my people pleasing tendencies kicking up.

I know one of said friends has a belief that people often let him down.... But then he asks so much and escalates his demands to the point where anyone with boundaries would let him down. It really feels like I'm dealing with his and his housemates' psychological processes being projected onto me and it's very stressful.

Anyway just wanted to share. I know struggling with boundaries with friends is something many of us struggle with so perhaps you relate?

[Catothecat]

I think you're onto something when you say this one particular friend has an issue with often feeling "let down" by others but then doesn't hesitate to ask so much of those others that they'll automatically let him down.  It's almost as if he's deliberately (and probably subconsciously) creating a situation where he's setting himself up to be let down.  And since this is a group home, his issues (or others with a similar issue) will eventually affect the entire group.  But rather than directly address what's actually going on, they've learned a dysfunctional way of dealing with such issues by pushing unreasonable expectations on others.  And look what happens--they get let down!  So it sounds like they're creating an endless loop of disappointment. 

I've had friends like that--ones who psychologically manipulated me into doing things for them until I realize I can never do enough for them.  There was always one more thing they needed or wanted.  But when I'd put up a boundary, they'd cry unfair (in a manner of speaking) because only they can have boundaries!  And how dare I?!  So they tried to make me feel guilty for not doing something for them until I stopped accepting their imposed guilt.  If they wanted to remain friends, they had to accept my boundaries.  If they wouldn't, they really weren't friends after all.

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi Hattie,

One thing I've learned is "Nice is not enough". Nice is all find and good - lots of people are nice, especially when they are in a good mood that day.

In my mind, the only way that communal living would work is if people really have learned how to manage the labour, without pushing others past their limits. People who choose a lifestyle filled with lots of physical labour, need to understand that people have limits. Bodies have limits on how much they can do, physically, mentally and emotionally.

Back when there was more physical labour involved in a homestead (i.e. chopping the wood you needed for the winter) people worked even through fatigue and exhaustion. Farmers were not well rested during harvest - they did what they did because it was survival. Somehow, we have forgotten this and have romanticized the past.

Personally, I'm very cautious around people who want a lifestyle filled with lots of manual labour....it is exhausting to live like that, and of course they want others to come and help out.

I'm going to be blunt here: Of course they are nice, they are hoping that people will help them with their chosen lifestyle, which involves a lot of physical labour. As you can attest, this takes its toll on the body.

People have romanticized a lot of features that were from the past. All of that manual labour took its toll on our predecessors too. It's cool if someone wants to churn their own butter (for example) but in this day and age, they will quickly find out that others do not want to devote hours and hours to doing physical labour because it DOES take its toll. I grew up around farmers - they had lots of back aches and other physical ailments from the years of hard labour.

I used to imagine the benefits of communal living myself. And then I saw how it played out with a few people and I realized that healthy communal living would require a lot of emotional maturity.

It can be lovely to hold values around communal living, but the practice of it requires a lot. Me personally, I would probably never not get involved in a communal living group, even if I shared their same values. But if I did, like you, I would not want it to take its toll on my physical and emotional health. (how is that aligned with community-based values after all??). 

Trees

[looloo]

Lol, this is where my appreciation of transactional relationships kicks in!  Meaning, I think it's a wonderful thing to be able to pay someone fairly to do a job that they have expertise in, but that I do not. Or, that I would simply rather not spend my limited free time doing, if I can afford to have the task done for me.  I see it as showing appreciation for someone else's skills, entrepreneurship (even if the hard reality is that they wouldn't be doing that kind of work if they won the lottery), work ethic, etc.  I consider it money well spent, time well spent, and hopefully non exploitative in either direction (both parties are fine with the arrangement).

[notrightinthehead]

I can totally relate. I had a friend who would invite me over for something and every single time tried to sell me something. It was so awkward and I felt pushed into a corner and far too often taken advantage of. And if I tried to weasle my way out of buying something this friend became quite  pushy and sometimes even nasty.
I never did the healthy thing of being authentic and open. I could have asked her when she invited me if that was a social event or if she was going to try to sell me something. Instead I faded away, was busy, not well, didn't return her calls. A pity as I quite liked her, but the relationship was too one-sided for me.

[Amy-Rose]

Hi,
You say they are "nice" people, but nice can easily be faked. Anyone who has dealt with Narcissistic behaviour will tell you that. Some people's actions may look innocent but it can be very deliberate. Could he be deliberately pushing to hard to be let down.
My Narc friend was like that. Complaining about being let down when she's expect too much and give so little back. They have this way of getting you to do something you'd never do and making you feel guilty if you don't.

This person would keep so much from me. Just basic stuff. So secretive all the time about everything. If she went on holiday and I showed interest I would still be nice the wiser. I'd ask her where she was off too. The answer every time "Just to see a friend." If I then said I was referring to the location it would be "somewhere the other side of London." "A long, way away." or "Up north".

When ever I asked after the relatives she talked about a lot the answer was "up and down."

It was like she could tell me things. But if I asked questions the answers were vague.

It was all about control. She could pleasure making me thinking and show interest in her life. She wanted to know all about me though.

If it looks like a snake and moves like a snake. It's a snake.

Nice people don't show user like behaviour so just monitor the situation and pull back or out if needed.
All the best x

[pianissimo]

Lately they've been throwing a lot of "parties" where they invite friends round to help them work on their house. They try and make out like we'll be contributing to a community event with a particular set of values, but as far as I can see, it's just doing DIY on their house for them. Initially these events were well attended, but now the numbers are dwindling and they are becoming increasingly pushy with those of us still involved.

I said I would go along this weekend at some point for an hour or two and next thing I know, I've been signed up on a rota to do several hours of hard labour!! I got really angry as I felt used and then ended up getting a migraine. I now don't feel well enough to go anyway because of the migraine! I guess my body is "keeping the score"!.

For me, that's an elaborate lie. Having events to get people work on the house? I can see that it could be fun for people, but I thought I took attention to that aspect just in case.

In these types of situations, I point out to the work I've done to demand what I need. I do this sincerely and I try to be fair, I take the nature of the friendship into consideration too. People who are just spontaneous don't take issue, they hear me out,  they comfort me, they actually become relieved that I want something fair in return. It's like they trust me more, and, in return, I trust them. Controlling people who assume I will be easygoing become outraged and discard me. Darker ones try to frame my demand as a seal for an unspoken deal, like "OK, if I give you this weekend off, then the next one...", which scares me off.

[Hattie]

Thanks all for your replies! In the end I didn't go as I was too ill anyway with my migraine. I texted them to explain and not a one of them replied to say "get well soon", so that made me feel like I'd done the right thing cancelling anyway!

"And since this is a group home, his issues (or others with a similar issue) will eventually affect the entire group.  But rather than directly address what's actually going on, they've learned a dysfunctional way of dealing with such issues by pushing unreasonable expectations on others" - thanks, this is very astute. My friends have a tendency to over commit and take on loads of responsibilities outside the commune, which then doesn't leave them enough time for this house project. So yes they are trying to compensate by involving others but that is all getting a tad dysfunctional.

"It can be lovely to hold values around communal living, but the practice of it requires a lot. Me personally, I would probably never not get involved in a communal living group, even if I shared their same values. But if I did, like you, I would not want it to take its toll on my physical and emotional health". Thanks, I share your scepticism about these kind of lifestyles. The fact is I met these friends whilst I was part of a religious group that I now think is a cult. I left but they are still involved. One of them has also joined a political group with distinctly culty leanings. So whilst I do think they are generally nice people, they are prone to be sucked into that type of dysfunction. Cults really suck their members dry, and I see them bringing that mentality into this project. I was hoping I could stay friends with them despite leaving the cult, but I think I need really strong boundaries to do so.

Thanks all for your comments. It was really reassuring and informative to hear about your various experiences

[treesgrowslowly]

Hattie, sounds like you are trusting your gut!

Cult-like groups can form anywhere. And a lot of those groups attract nice people. People who want to help others or live a moral lifestyle (as they define it). And those groups are attractive to anyone looking for community.

It's good to be aware and vigilant. Yes, not having anyone wish you well with your migraine recovery is a bit of a sign. At the very least, they are too distracted to extend concern.

Trees