Goalposts

[Lauren17]

I've been marathoning through divorce with uNPDh for over a year.
He's been playing the victim role like a champ.  He has convinced his lawyer, more than one mediator and the custody evaluator that he's so sad and Lauren is ripping away all his happiness and it's just so unfair!

Every time I think that the negotiations are complete and this hell is over, he changes his mind on another point to argue and we start all over again.  A friend said to me that he is "moving the goalposts."  That made me realize that all of this isn't about winning.  It's about the fight.  The longer he can keep fighting, the more supply he gets.  So now, I'm faced with the question of how to get out of this.  Do I give in, let him take what he wants and free myself?  If I do that, then he has "won." Will that make him more likely to start another fight?  Or do I keep pushing, to show that he cannot bully me anymore?  This only gives him more supply and encourages him to keep fighting?

How do I even make that choice?

This was a painful realization and I'm reeling today, trying to figure out the best way forward.  I talked to my T about it and she suggested that I write him a letter.  I'm not convinced that will do anything but give him more supply.  So, I came here, to those who really understand, to try and gain some perspective.

[escapingman]

That is 100 percent true, he is using the process for his supply. My STBX is doing exactly the same, she comes up with unreasonable demands and keep sending stupid small issues through her solicitor just to delay and keep going. Last time in court STBX sat there crying so much that my solicitor said she felt uncomfortable sitting near a grown woman crying like that. I am tempted to just agree to anything soon just to move on, if she gets her way the children will be adults before this is settled.

Keep strong!

[notrightinthehead]

I agree with your opinion, writing him a letter will only give him more supply and something to use against you. I am so sorry you are entangled in the legal proceedings. Maybe a second legal opinion or a support group for divorcées might be helpful to free yourself from his entrapment.

[Penny Lane]

This is EXACTLY what my husband's ex did. He told me about it in the initial divorce (he ended up giving in on some major items) and I witnessed it in a modification (he did not get in and his ex caved).

I agree about the letter, I'm not sure what that will accomplish.

First of all if your lawyer is canceling hearings or pushing them back, STOP. Don't cancel a hearing until you have a signed agreement in hand. DH had to argue with his lawyer about this - she kept agreeing to push stuff back and then his ex would ignore the issue for several more months, until the hearing came up again, and she would make a bunch of noises like she was going to settle, then repeat. He eventually said, no more pushing back hearings. And they settled two hours before the hearing was supposed to happen.

Second of all, if there are things you don't care about, and you can concede on them to get a deal, then sure, do it. I don't think that puts you in a worse position going forward. But I would make it VERY clear that you're only agreeing in this narrow circumstance. So like, you have the documents all drafted, it's all agreed to, then he says, okay well I want XYZ. So you send him the redrafted document with XYZ and say, "I'm willing to sign this until (date), otherwise we'll go back to the previous draft." Or something. The point being, don't let him add stuff and add stuff and add stuff.

If there are things that are dealbreakers for you, that will have long term consequences, don't agree just to get a deal done! You will be kicking yourself later.

Finally, I would be preparing yourself to go to trial for the final divorce. Hopefully it won't come to that, but it might be the only way through this.

Good luck, I'm sorry you're dealing with this, we're all rooting for you!

[hhaw]

I agree with Penny Lane.

Should you come up against another settlement discussion, please ask your attorney to have all parties agree to HAND WRITE OUT ANY AGREEMENT right there at the meeting with all parties signing it at that meeting.

I mean, have the attorneys sign it too.

Then have YOUR attorney walk it to the Clerk's office, file it and get several filed and stamped copies, with TWO going into your files.  I would NEVER trust opposing counsel to file that important AGREEMENT and some attorneys might not understand why you feel that way, but you DO and that's what's important.  You're the client.  Your attorney is your tool. 

THEN, and ONLY after you have filed and stamped copies IN YOUR POSESSION, do you consider cancelling ANY hearing, trial date or deposition scheduled.

As long as you PD can continue making and breaking promises.....
you're right....
he will do so in order to drag the divorce out, wate all your resources, you may well need for trial, and tire you out so you give up, which is likely his strategy. 

Don't ORDER your attorney around, but lead them to the place where you simply can't afford to continue wasting time and resources when you know the PD isn't going to be honorable or play fair.  Appear willing to settle, always.  You want the PD to be the person the attonreys identify as the problem with reaching settlement.  Not you. 

You're willing to settle, so have your list of BOTTOM LINE MUST HAVE items written out and make sure yur attorney knows the deal has to be off IF you don't get what you need to remain sane.  Those items need to be overtly reasonable and if you have children, always refer back to the children's best interests over and over again as reason to stick to your guns. 

Don't allow everyone to bully you into making a deal that gives away your bottom line list of things you MUST HAVE.  Sometimes even our own attonreys begin doing that when they realize we're the ONLY reasonable litigant and they KNOW the PDs won't be reasonable so they have to lean on us to get out of the mess of our case.

Take our filters with you.  Remember to remain calm and consistent and always speak about and to your stbx with compassion, bc it makes it more difficult for him to get sympathy when we resist attacking or speaking about them without compassion.  He's a sick man who's going to have to release the marriage..... and you just want the best for him, but freedom for yourself is necessary for both of you. 

What you want to avoid is what's been happening to you.  Get that agreement handwritten and signed..... don't cancel ANYTHING based on PD promises ever again.  It's OK to ask your attorney for these things, based on your experience and understanding of how the PD is operating.

If you have to go to trial to get out of this.... don't fear the courtroom.  Typically the PDs have ZERO evidence and we're loaded for bear.  The harsh light of the courtroom doesn't go so well for PDs, though I know some here have had different experiences. Sometimes a trial IS the quickest way out of PD divorce court.

good luck

[Lauren17]

First of all if your lawyer is canceling hearings or pushing them back, STOP. Don't cancel a hearing until you have a signed agreement in hand. DH had to argue with his lawyer about this - she kept agreeing to push stuff back and then his ex would ignore the issue for several more months, until the hearing came up again, and she would make a bunch of noises like she was going to settle, then repeat. He eventually said, no more pushing back hearings. And they settled two hours before the hearing was supposed to happen.

This is exactly what he's been doing!  And, when you're in the middle of it, it's so hard to see.  Back in the FOG, I suppose.  I was hopeful that he would cave just before the hearing, but no.  I'm still not clear how the hearing got canceled. 

hhaw,  I actually did all of the things that you suggested and it still fell apart.  When we mediated, I had the documents signed by everyone, that day, and filed with the court.  It's even easier post-Covid as everything is done electronically.  But, those were not the final, final documents.  And he has edited the final documents freely.   You would think that we could fall back on the stamped and filed mediation, but he's slippery and is freely playing games with the wording of the document.

After I read your post, I did go back to the notes I pulled together months and months ago.  That has helped to center me on what's important.   The FOG is lifted now and I'm seeing that the only way to 'win" this game is to stop playing.

Thank you, all, for your words of wisdom and support.

[Penny Lane]

I think you're actually in a great position. If you do have to take this to court/trial, it seems that the judge won't have to rule on what the document should say, period. They will just have to rule on how to enact the signed agreement. A reasonable interpretation of the signed agreement is what you want anyway!

So you're in a good position, I would just march toward trial because that's the fastest way out, either a trial or him caving because the trial is imminent.

I mean I am not a lawyer, run this by your lawyer but it seems like his ability to mess with this is not actually that great.