Inside a black hole

[escapingman]

I just feel I inside a big black hole and have no idea how to get out of this. With the acceptance of that my mum is some kind of PD and that my dad is the caretaker of his PD spouse I just feel completely empty. I have seen this for what it is for years, but I decided to accept the fact and to not try to fool myself anymore. This has taken me down so far into this hole, to not pretend that there is someone holding my back, I have no one. I have gone through the struggle with STBX, the divorce, custody hearing, not seeing one daughter for almost 5 months. None of them have asked how I really feel and none of them have offered any help, my dad came to see me a few days when it all happened, I was vulnerable with him and he paid me back with rushing back home to be able to go to a regular event with his spouse. For you who followed my story this summer, I went to see them and hoped for some support, this ended in disaster as my dads PD spouse had covid but wasn't bothered to warn us before turning up. Since me and DD abruptly left when eventually being told she took it personally and have now even unfriended me on social media. At least that settled it for me, I never need to try to pretend anymore and I won't go and see her ever again. But my dad is so deep into the FOG with her that he will side with her, which he has done many times in the past, so I will need to cut him off as well. It's incredible upsetting when he turns up and show glimpses of hope and then rush back to her.

Lately I have had a few social meetings with some parents to DD's friends, it's amazing how simple it can be when not having to wonder what to do or say to not offend someone. With STBX and my FOO I always need to watch what I say in case someone gets offended, I don't want to live like that. I need to keep working on this and say no when I just don't agree with something. I have had to put up a big mirror in front of me and start to look at myself, no more blaming other people for my unhappiness, if someone makes me unhappy, I need to take action and not let them. I also need to stop escaping the reality and face whatever is coming my way, I have to many unhealthy coping strategies that I always allowed as I could always blame them on someone else. If I cut out that someone else there is only me and the mirror left.

I am not sure if anything of what I am writing makes sense, but I have to get myself out of this black hole and face reality.

[hhaw]

It makes sense, em. 

[NarcKiddo]

You are the one person you can rely on, and you have your back.

I'm sorry you have not had the support from others you would have liked. But you are right that you now need to focus on you. Once you start feeling able to trust yourself you may start finding others you can also trust.

Hugs.

[escapingman]

I am almost 5 months out since last spoke to my abuser, but I still dream about her every night with very vivid nightmares of her still abusing me. Is this normal? I just don't know how to move on when my brain keep reminding me like this.

[Poison Ivy]

I have been divorced for more than 6 years and rarely see my former spouse, but he and our children regularly appear in my dreams. I assume they always will.

[escapingman]

Thanks Poison,

I think one of the major issues right now is that I still live in the marital house with all the stuff around. I desperately want to move, but things in the divorce are making it very difficult. It could be sorted tomorrow, or it could be sorted in 2 years. I need to move on.

[Poison Ivy]

I still live in the family house. Doing so is a mixture of good and bad. I do understand why many people recommend not staying in the family house after a divorce.

[SonofThunder]

I have been divorced for more than 6 years and rarely see my former spouse, but he and our children regularly appear in my dreams. I assume they always will.

Im counting on this ☝️and will accept it.  Im NOT in the family house and my uPDstbx and uNPDf are in my dreams regularly.  When I arise, I tell myself that these dreams are WAYYYYY better than real experiences, and so i will be so thankful for my physically separated state from the two PD's in my life. 

I can see or hear something during any given day (like an airplane overhead or something in a tv program for example) and some portion of it will end up in a dream haha.  Therefore i should surely expect my decades of PD experiences will be in them frequently as my brain processes these events. 

You are not alone in the black-hole of misunderstanding EM!  Your Out of the FOG friends around the globe are there with you!  I will be my own best friend. I am gentle on myself and understand myself and my experiences fully.  I can fully empathize with you my friend and comrade!

SoT

[escapingman]

I have put that mirror up, and firmly staring at myself. I figured out that my mum is some kind of PD and my dad is a caretaker, for anyone but me it looks like. Analysing my relationship with my parents I first thought I must have been my mothers golden child, this because I was never really told off or reprimanded. Now I know I was the invisible child, I had no rules and could do as I wanted. Up until now I thought my childhood was good, I was reasonable happy and my parents let me be. But I have now realised I was subjected to Emotional Neglect (CEN), now listening to the book "Running on empty: Overcome your childhood emotional neglect". This is just giving me lightbulb moment after lightbulb moment, it is almost like the book was purely written for me. I had to pause and write this post as I just had the biggest realisation of myself and all my relationships in my life. WOW. I am counter dependent. I need to figure out more about this, but it makes me not wanting to be dependent and never ask for help. Apparently being counter dependent can make it very difficult to have both deep a deep emotional connection AND a physical connection with someone. The example in the book made me freeze. I am sorry for making sexual reference here but this is where the flood light is shining on me right now. When I have truly loved someone and been intimate, it looks like I was not capable of having true sexual intimacy with these people. I remember the first girl I really loved, I could not manage to have sex with her. The second girl, the same, until one time I was drunk and the emotional barriers were down. Other girls I have been with, that I haven't really loved or had an emotional connection with never a problem. Since those 2 relationships mentioned, which where in my teens, I have never had an issue with this again. Looking at it now, I don't think I have ever been with someone I truly loved. I can see that I never tried to connect with people I loved after this, but I picked people that I thought loved me.

WOW.

I have in my entire adulthood picked girl friends and finally my wife because they or at least I thought they loved me, not because I loved them. All the girls I have loved, I have thought they are too good for me, they will never pick me, I stand no chance. I have had no problems pursuing these other girls, as it is easy to take rejection from someone you don't really care to much about. But to be rejected by someone you are for is harder to take. I then met STBX and I felt so good being loved by her and that protected me from actually chasing the girl I really loved. I then quickly got addicted to being love bombed and the rest is history.

It was me all the time. WOW. Now I am going back to listening to the book to see what it tells me next.

[JustKeepTrying]

Each day that passes removes me from his orbit.  It's been three years and yes I dream/nightmares about him.  Flashbacks during the day sometimes so intense that I can't distinguish from reality.  Scary.  I see his fist come at me over and over again.

But there is hope, and I feel like you need a little hope right now.  I am making better decisions and learning more about myself and what I want.  I firmly protect my peace and only let in people who will add to the peace - even if it's my own children - I know it sounds harsh but they are grown adults and I need this peace.

It takes time EM.  Hard work and a willingness to grow and look in all your dark corners.  But you will find more and more moments of peace.  Like Hhaw has said in other posts, give your nervous system time to reset. 

[escapingman]

I feel a bit frightened, with the mirror being put in front of me and telling me to look at myself. I feel the armour is off and I can't blame anyone else anymore. Listening to this latest audiobook has made me so aware of what is "wrong with me" and what I need to fix. I am scared of the amount of work I need to do, but I need to do it. It is so scary to see what I wish I had seen 30 years ago.

[SonofThunder]

I feel a bit frightened, with the mirror being put in front of me and telling me to look at myself. I feel the armour is off and I can't blame anyone else anymore. Listening to this latest audiobook has made me so aware of what is "wrong with me" and what I need to fix. I am scared of the amount of work I need to do, but I need to do it. It is so scary to see what I wish I had seen 30 years ago.

EM, surely in the self-responsibility of the 50% rule, i brought a lot to the table of incompatibility with my stbx, once I shed the FOG of caretaking.  I have spent a lot of time studying my FOO and myself.  I dont consider my own traits as wrong or right, but simply in nature/nurture, who I am and who I became. There are some FOO-nurtured 'who-i-became' traits that I desire to minimize, yet some natured 'who-I-am' traits I want to now self-nurture to prominence. 

I dont consider my traits needing minimizing as 'fixing', but rather proactively, in a mindfulness mentality, understand and recognize them, accept that they exist and make wise decisions going forward to choose differently, therefore minimizing their affect on my life.  Much of who I became was developed in the years with my FOO, which included a PD father and caretaker mother.  After that time, I blindly made decisions in the FOG, but not any longer going forward. 

Understanding myself better in this way, allows me to choose wisely regarding myself and in gentleness, recognize that I will always be a steady work-in-progress, therefore why i will remain focused on myself, my adult children and those other people and interests in my life vs female companionship.  That is a specific choice for me and not for everyone.  I love myself. I accept myself.  I will celebrate myself and the upcoming time to treat myself much more carefully than in the past, nurturing who i am; nurturing who I will steadily become; slowly minimizing and shedding some of who I had become.   

Im so very glad you are continuing the revelations about your FOO and about yourself and recommend you treat yourself gently and kindly both now and going forward.  Again, most around us have no idea what we have been/are going through and why, imo, this site is so important in camaraderie.  Most around me have no clue what its like to live in these PD experiences and therefore I accept that us here at Out of the FOG are like the special military warriors that operate in secrecy and only our comrades know the truth.  I am one of your comrades and there is no black hole here among us who share in your experiences. 

SoT

[Poison Ivy]

Thank you, SonofThunder, for writing so clearly on this thread. This statement sums it up for me, too: "Understanding myself better in this way, allows me to choose wisely regarding myself and in gentleness, recognize that I will always be a steady work-in-progress ...."

[SonofThunder]

Thank you, SonofThunder, for writing so clearly on this thread. This statement sums it up for me, too: "Understanding myself better in this way, allows me to choose wisely regarding myself and in gentleness, recognize that I will always be a steady work-in-progress ...."

Glad to be here with you Poison Ivy, my Out of the FOG 'work-in-progress' comrade 😊. Thank you for your kindness. 

SoT

[Lookin 2 B Free]

You're not alone, EM.  I first heard about this difficulty of emotional vs physical intimacy many years ago.  Mine takes a slightly different form.  I can feel in love, including physically, but not with anyone who's too "there," too dependable and steady.  When those "safe" ones have wanted to date me,  really good men who would make great husbands, smart, funny, caring, stable - even good looking --, my stomach will turn at the thought of getting physically intimate. 

I heard it explained this way.  For some who were too hurt, particularly in childhood or with certain types of abuse, having true emotional and physical intimacy together in one relationship is just too overwhelming.   And so the pattern of finding some people to fulfill one type of intimacy and different people to fulfill the other.  I don't believe this is so very unusual in serious relationships, having some degree of co or counter dependence, or what is sometimes called love addiction or love avoidance.  Though it may be unusual to recognize, learn about, and work on it.  Many, many married couples struggle with issues of intimacy of one kind or another.

In fact, in Running on Empty, J Webb even makes a point of saying she's talking about a segment of the population who grew up in pretty average homes with parents who loved them, rather that really abusive ones.  Some parents who love their kids and believe they're giving them the best just don't know how to fulfill a child's emotional needs.

But I agree it's hard to wake up to the fact that it wasn't just happenstance that we ended up in these kinds of relationships -- that there was something unhealed in us that played a part.  Still, that's why we have a chance to change that the pwPD doesn't have.  For those not driven by  the distorted thinking and inability to see reality which drives a PD, a door to healing (in the form of really hard realizations) is there.  Thanks so much for sharing so deeply.  And, as SoT points out, we're in this together. 

Easy does it ... baby steps.  I hope you give yourself lots of TLC.  You deserve it, EM.  We all do.

[JustKeepTrying]

EM - if I could, I would wrap you in a hug, hand you a beer and just listen.

What you feel or see as despair, I see as hope.  You are doing the work - one tiny step at a time - moving forward, looking at your past, owning your part of it, understanding patterns and basically doing the work.  That is hopeful.  That is progress.  And that is what should be celebrated.

In coda there is a saying, progress over perfection.  Embrace the mess and keep making those baby steps. 

You got this and we got you.

[treesgrowslowly]

EM,

In the words of JustKeepTrying:

"You got this - and we got you".

I could not say it better myself.

You wrote: "I'm scared of the amount of work I need to do...". Yes. I hear you. When we think about the work of coming Out of the FOG, I felt scared and overwhelmed as well. Many times. I also felt small, daunted - I believed that this inner work is going to be like building a house out of matchsticks with no glue- laborious, exhausting labour. It is not.

Try to imagine it this way if you can. You've lived a few decades now. You've been walking down a path in your life. Let's say you were facing west, walking West, walking walking walking. For many years, walking down that path that life set you on.

Then you read this book (which is a great book IMHO), and now you are stopping, on your trail.

And now you are pivoting to face 20 degrees more south. Now you start walking again, and it is a completely new path. You only changed the direction you were facing by a few degrees, but the path is a new one now.

If two people set out from the same point, but one person faces 5 degrees more south from the other person, 4 miles later, they are in very very different places. All you are doing is pivoting your self, and now you're on a new path.

The path you were walking before this, was a hard path too - it was just a path you had walked for a long time, so you knew how to step, how to walk, and the path was a familiar one after a while. But make no mistake, the path you are on now, is a path with some really nice sights, some really smooth trails ahead, some really beautiful moments of self-discovery.

The path you were on before was familiar, the path you are on now is new. We can assure you, the fear you feel is understandable.

I dare say, you are on the hero's journey.

https://ct.counseling.org/2021/07/a-hero-heroines-journey-a-road-map-to-trauma-healing/

Trees

[hhaw]

EM:

I think we learn the hardest of ways only bc we're left with no choices.

If we had any choice, we'd weather the storms and stay, ime.

We don't know how to speak up, believe our experience or trust our instincts.  These lessons tend to, ime, come at the end of an emotional blow torch....SO so painful.

You're in the abyss.....cant go under it.  Can't go around it.  Have to continue traveling through it to get out and on the other side, and you WILL get out, EM.

These dark days are the path leading to discovering who you were before your parents installed disordered software and unconscious belief systems in your brain and body.

You'll cultivate the ability to notice the programming and catch it.......discern if you'll change it and try on new choices, but for now you're learning to notice what's going on internally......drop judgment....membrace curiosity and KNOW you're the best resource you and your children have.

Lean into trust and belief in yourself.  Don't fear what's behind the difficult feelings, explore them instead.

Clarity and peace often follow turning toward your suffering bravely.....and accepting what's there, sans any judgment.

Just see and notice how it feels in your body.  Is there pain, pressure, burning?  Put your hands on it and name it....breathe into it.....tend to it like your tending to a child and see what's there.

I think it's one way to face and overcome trauma responses and unlearning trauma responses is only possible when we first notice them.

You aren't broken.....youre learning a new language of self care, self compassion even when you forget.....go back to self compassion, dropping judgment, embracing curiosity and acceptance without expectation.

And breathing deeply, filling bottom of lungs to the top, like filling a vase.  10x, check your body discomfort then breathe into 10x and check again.  It should feel better and if not, push on a door jamb with everything you have.....survival brain needs to ACT bc it believes your in mortal danger, bc it's stuck in the wrong time zone.  Survival brain only cares about keeping you alive....not about quality of life.

You have to learn to engage your Parasympathetic Nervous System (PNS) to shut off fight or flight survival brain....which is unfortunately your default setting (installed by your parents.)  You can change that, EM.

Actual factory default settings are still there....with time and practice you'll build them stronger and remember who you were when you were born to be, EM.  Neuroplasticity is the ability to change your brain's pathways and move myelin (fat coating brain pathways making them lightening fast) from old default pathways to new and less traveled/healthuer brain pathways we choose to cultivate.

First we notice what's there, sans judgment.  Then we cultivate a split second BEFORE we react.....we cultivate a split second to identify choice.  We cultivate choice and that's how we stop living in trauma responses and reactivity.

We SEE choices and select a response, rather than being controlled by old reactivity.



When you wrote that letter to the SW.....THAT was a part of you coming back online.  That was you selecting a response bc you identified a new strategy opening up to you.  It's how healing works, EM.

You learned you had to earn love every moment and it taught you you aren't worthy of love.  That's just a story from your childhood.

Who you really are is worthy and always enough, EM.  Deserving of self care and healthy boundaries that FEEL right.  It takes practice, but you can do it.

The suffering you're experiencing is about the parts and pieces of you requiring attention, ime. 

The story you're telling yourself, your perception of your FOO story, is creating more suffering.....when maybe sitting in nonjudgmental awareness will end suffering and simply show you what needs tending to.  Resisting the truth, interpreting it as travesty slows awareness of what's there.  It keeps you stuck fearing into the future and ruminating in the past when, really, there's ONLY this moment, always and you choose how to BE in this moment.

Will you call your Nervous System, bring your entire brain to bear and SEE what's real.....identify what you can and can't change.....accept that reality, do what you can to problem solve then put that story on the shelf.....turn toward the joy and beauty always available to you.....there is choice in every moment, EM.

Laying down old patterns, while mindfully selecting new patterns and remembering to use them takes more energy than allowing old, lightening fast survival brain pathways to run that program.

Survival brain doesnt burn as much energy.  The brain is frugal and moves myelin from fat well travelled brain pathways to newer, chosen pathways so it's a process.

You choose how you perceive that process.....with your nose biochemically pressed on whatever Pebble you're suffering with
OR
Learning how to cultivate spaciousness so you have emotional distance from that Pebble so it's just another Pebble on a field with other pebbles and bushes and trees and bodies of water and horizon and sky and space above and below us.

Changing requires engaging PNS to bring our frontal cortex online (integrate all hemispheres of the brain to access logic, reason and creative problem solving.)

You're living in torment, bc of your perceptions of your situation.

Because you're judging and fearing and ruminating and neeeeeeding to change reality instead of accepting what's there and breathing into it, ime.

If you can calm yourself down, you create a moment.  In that moment you have the ability to discern.  Discerning good, better, best choices gives you the ability to select a response and be responsive to your best ability.

Imagine if you weren't trapped suffering in reactivity and the old story you believe about being at the mercy of, being unseen and voiceless, helpless.

Imagine if you stepped into the agency and power you want your daughter's to have.

What advice would you give your children if one was in your situation, EM?

You're worthy of THAT.  You just have to remember.

[escapingman]

It is amazing what you all are writing to me. It is so good to read and so appreciated.  I love you all!

[escapingman]

I found Richard Grannon Fortress Mental Health Protection on youtube this morning, this is an amazing piece of work he has done. This is so good. I recommend everyone to watch the videos, I have watched the first 5 and can't wait to watch the rest. He explains CPTDS so understandable and how to see it. The for F's, I can see how I have used all 4 of them in different situations. Now I need to stop those responses, I am optimistic but it will take time. He explained it so well with that if you can delay for response by just one second, then next time to two seconds and so on you are on the healing path.

I am so grateful for all of your replies to me as well, they are incredible helpful and encouraging.

Thanks!