Parental Alienation

[escapingman]

Thank you Rose, you pretty much summed up my plans. I am going to have a meeting with me legal team and ask about my options, but I will complain about the biased report and I will ask for a new social worker and therapist for GC. The rest I will accept, unless the legal experts have some strategy they believe would win this for me. But going to a final hearing where both STBX and I will be questioned and grilled might get her to show her true colours, but she might go waif and then get the sympathies so I don't really want to go there. I am not really in the mood to be grilled myself with all these false accusations that has been thrown at me.

Regarding the SW being a PD herself, I have my suspicions as there are red flags. One big one is that she gets angry and accusing me if I don't agree with her or if I even the slightest suggest that GC is influenced by her mum and that she actually did abuse me and DD. She is always late, she makes up plans as she goes along and she justify breaches of what has been agreed. She is fairly young and has only been working as a SW for 3 years and this is her second local authority she works for. I sent her a text last week questioning something very important and she has blanked me and not replied.

[Rose1]

SW sounds like a mess. I have met a young  inexperienced social worker who was college educated but no life experience, but very convinced of her abilities. She made a couple of really dumb decisions

[escapingman]

uNPD STBX has scored a massive own goal, I really hope this can be used. She had a clear path to having unsupervised contact with DD laid out by the SW. Step 1 was to send DD a letter and apologise for her previous abuse. DD just received the letter, what did she apologise for? The separation and the shouting in the house caused by me, but not her abuse. DD is furious and has already sent an email to the SW complaining. Lets see what comes out of this, most likely nothing but hey it's another shitshow by STBX.

[SonofThunder]

uNPD STBX has scored a massive own goal, I really hope this can be used. She had a clear path to having unsupervised contact with DD laid out by the SW. Step 1 was to send DD a letter and apologise for her previous abuse. DD just received the letter, what did she apologise for? The separation and the shouting in the house caused by me, but not her abuse. DD is furious and has already sent an email to the SW complaining. Lets see what comes out of this, most likely nothing but hey it's another shitshow by STBX.

EM,

Im so hoping that the truth-war expands on its own like this, while you and DD get on with living your life and being the calmest duo in the mix, allowing stbx to believe her war is taking a back-seat to you and DD getting on with life.  PD's detest not being the center of attention and imo, will amplify their behaviors to try and achieve. That amplification typically does not bode well in public knowledge. Looking forward to how this may expand. 

Speaking of public knowledge, you stated previously that the young SW is on her "second local authority". Not sure if the SW's a public paid employee, but if tax dollars pay her salary, im wondering if its also public knowledge as to why she switched to a different "local authority".  If it was for a negative reason, then that may be good detailed info to know, since she is being so instrumental in your case.

SoT

[escapingman]

This is so predictable and unsurprising. Today GC and DD were supposed to meet, GC told DD where to meet at lunch time. However, GC never turned up. So, report goes in and GC goes a walk and shows that her reuniting was DD was only a show - exactly as I told everyone before. GC needs out of the claws of that woman ASAP for any chance to save her sanity. STBX clearly thinks she has won now the report is in and she got exactly the recommendation she wanted. Time to start poking that bear now she thinks she is untouchable.

[escapingman]

Forget my previous message as there might be an explanation and not as bad as I thought.

[escapingman]

This is just going from bad to worse, I am trying my best to do the right thing. But is it the right thing? DD had supervised contact with STBX today, they spent about an hour together with the Social Worker present. I then took DD straight to training afterwards with another friend so no chance to really talk. As soon as we dropped the friend back at home and we were alone DD told me she is depressed, asking her some questions she says she is depressed and feel she wants to kill herself. She says she does not know why she feel like this but all the feelings came on shortly after seeing her mum. This is obviously terrifying me. She is having a counselling session and I have begged her to mention this, but she is worried it would escalate. But this is what is needed. It needs escalating. She needs protection and healing. Having started seeing her mum again is not healthy for her, I honestly think she wants and needs no contact with her mum. But I can't suggest it as everybody else thinks all is good now. I am tearing my hair out. I just want her protected.

[square]

Hey EM,

That sounds stressful.

I can understand your feelings. But I think this is a situation where you can remove the burden from your shoulders.

Despite your best efforts, you were not able to prevent this meeting.

You cannot change stbx or SW.

You can and will keep making your case and the outcome may change in the future.

DD is a child and you are rightly protective of her. But she is also capable of making her own choices with the love and guidance of her father behind her.

She can decide to work through her feelings about this meeting in her own way on her own time.

You did good.

[SonofThunder]

This is just going from bad to worse, I am trying my best to do the right thing. But is it the right thing? DD had supervised contact with STBX today, they spent about an hour together with the Social Worker present. I then took DD straight to training afterwards with another friend so no chance to really talk. As soon as we dropped the friend back at home and we were alone DD told me she is depressed, asking her some questions she says she is depressed and feel she wants to kill herself. She says she does not know why she feel like this but all the feelings came on shortly after seeing her mum. This is obviously terrifying me. She is having a counselling session and I have begged her to mention this, but she is worried it would escalate. But this is what is needed. It needs escalating. She needs protection and healing. Having started seeing her mum again is not healthy for her, I honestly think she wants and needs no contact with her mum. But I can't suggest it as everybody else thinks all is good now. I am tearing my hair out. I just want her protected.

EM, im so very sorry this is occurring with DD.  I have zero experience with this type of scenario so nothing but thoughts and prayers to offer you in the stress. 

But, as a dad, my first reaction, if i heard those words come out of my daughters mouth (any age), would be to treat it as an immediate emergency, and calling any proper authority right now, to assist my daughter.  That is obviously a very concerning statement to hear from anyone, and not a statement for anyone, including children, to make casually. 

Even with a PD adult, the recommended action (see link below)  is asap contacting of authorities for the immediate safety and well-being of another human being.  As for my own minor child, they would have no say in my immediate action because i am their legal guardian with full responsibility for their wellbeing.

Even if my daughter was using extreme wording and really had no real intentions, she would see me follow through in loving concern because the very serious words exited her mouth, and regardless of whether she tried to backtrack her words.

I would also think that delays in immediate action on my part would constitute an irresponsible decision by me and I do not desire to act irresponsibly.  I fully understand I would be frazzled at the moment but i would follow through immediately and completely in love and care.  Again, just stating what i would do in that very difficult situation.

To be helpful, a quick link below to Out of the FOG's emergency page below.

SoT

https://outofthefog.website/emergency/

[Poison Ivy]

 

[escapingman]

Thanks for your support, DD has calmed down now after spending a lot of time with me. Even though she said she wanted to kill herself, I really don't thin she meant it. But I wish she mention it to the counsellor tomorrow as that might trigger something. If I raise it I am not sure it will be taken seriously and only sound like I am trying to discredit STBX. But, I don't think DD will want to get back to life with STBX as she wants to. DD is angry, she is actually furious with STBX for the abuse. 

[Poison Ivy]

escapingman, if I were in your position, I would tell the counselor what your daughter said today. It could be as short as, "DD said she felt like killing herself. I am very concerned. Please talk to her about this."

[JustKeepTrying]

 

Please please take this seriously. my daughter contemplated suicide - I have as well - and by the time you mention it - you are beyond just thinking - you usually have a plan and that must be taken seriously

It is serious and you need to mention this to guidance immediately. I ended up taking my daughter to the hospital and she spent five days in youth facility. I was in for five days myself. It was so beneficial and we both got the help we needed.

Please

[hhaw]

EM:

I'm sorry DD is suffering.

The thing is..... the Court demands children be subjected to harm, and for you to prove that harm BEFORE the Court will do anything to mitigate or protect the children from future harm.

Know this....
the Court doesn't care about your children.  They're too overwhelmed and believe all litigants lie. 

IF you craft an e mail to attonreys and the SW about DD's words..... be very mindful as the STBX and her attonrey, perhaps the SW WILL turn this around and blame YOU for it ANY way they can turn it on it's head.

You have choices for informing the Court, the SW...... DD's T...... how you word this.

You want to avoid DD feeling betrayed IF you repeat what she said without her permission. 

I've been so impressed with the way you attune to DD.  I hope you find a way to navigate this without DD feeling betrayed and abandoned or used by you.

Personally, I put the children's wellbeing ahead of EVERYTHING and I felt a familar flush of panic just reading about DD talking about suicide.  For me.... having been up againt the clock to determine what course to take for my oldest dd, who asked for mental health services and helped formulate that plan WITH me and a professional who helps families locate the best possible programs...... I understand back against the wall, find help and deliver it to a child in a way the child is open and willing to acce it.

Again.... I hope your attunement to DD helps you talk openly with her to gain her cooperation and work towards the same goal together..... you have DD on a wait list to see a T.  I question what kind of T that would be.  I'm thinking both your girls need a crisis management T to help them identify their distress and apply new coping strategies.... give them permission to NOT participate in the adult conflict, even if stbx is threatening and guilting them...... your girls need at least ONE advocate for their mental health, which will help you too and apply pressure to the PD, IME.

If you do write an e mail to SW, informing of her DD's alarming statements AFTER visiting with her mum...... I would be very curious  and respectfully enquire about what SW feels might have happened during the visit with stbx and not judge....just respectfully ask your "expert" for her input......and lean into making her feel important , not blamed.  It's not easy to do.

Whatever you do......
attunment to DD, gaining her cooperation..... is imortant.  You don't want DD saying you lied about what she said and you sure don't want her angry at you, framing YOU as the enemy and crowding out her anger at stbx for failing to write that apology letter.

You don't want SW telling the Judge you made up DD's statement or that you put DD up to say that... etc.

You can document it through the healthcare system....... inform your attorney, who will inform stbx's attorney.

I don't know what happens in the UK when a child is in crisis and requires mental health intervention..... but you need those answers.

I'm glad DD calmed down, but......
her words are sent a clear message, she needs help and she;s not getting it.

Question... is DD still very very angry about Stbx NOT sending that letter of apology?

Could THAT be reason for her extreme feelings after the visitation?

I don't know... I'm asking.  You know DD won't hem or haw about that or deny those feelings..... right?

[square]

Hey, I'm very sorry, I glossed over the suicide threat. My DD is very dramatic and I'm used to hyperbolic expressions of her feelings, but that's not how I would react to other people. I do agree that this is something to inform the counselor.

[escapingman]

DD is seeing a counsellor in school, she is seeing her today and I have almost begged DD to tell her about what she said to me yesterday. If she doesn't I will have to carefully think about how to deal with this, if she tell the counsellor today they will have to escalate and that is my hope. If this comes 100% from DD it will be so much better as I would only be accused of creating this. I asked DD if anything specifically happened during the contact with her mum and she said no, she can't describe it but after the contact she suddenly got a strong feeling of depression and felt as if she wanted to kill herself. I will take her to the doctors unless something already comes out of the counselling today, I think the counselling is on about now so unless I have had a call in a few hours I will do something. This morning DD was very panicky and got in to a fit about not finding her phone and then she shouted and swore at me. She hasn't had those fits for months and the way she spoke to me was completely out of character. She also mentioned she was upset with the SW again as she had suggested that DD should meet STBX and GC together soon, again a proof that the SW don't get it.

[Poison Ivy]

Your plan sounds appropriate. I'm thinking about you and DD and hoping for your safety and well-being.

[hhaw]

From where I;m sitting, it would be a mistake to allow more vistiation between DD ana SW and STBX under the current hopeless situation with SW not getting the situation and DD being used as bait to BE HARMED so harm can be proven.

I hate that and I can tell you.....
there are consequences for this.  I wish I could go back and change ONE visit between my oldest dd and the PDs.... and I think you're standing on that edge, EM.

DD is hopeless and all her efforts to advocate for herself are failing.....
and she's going to be released to her mum, sans supervision, such as it is, very soon and then what?

Hopeless, EM.

If DD can speak honestly with her counselor about how the situation is going, how it's making her feel...... I think it would go a long way with the court and showing this SW doesn't understand the sitaution.

SW is a bay SW, lacking experience and that's problematic in this situation.  It doesn't mean she's a bad actor or incompetent.  It means she doesn't have the context to make sense of what DD and you are saying. 

In my case, a biased/tarished Court Appointed T  meant more experts were called in to do evaluations.

That's how these things work, EM. 

The Court wants to know what the truth is.

I don't think the Court would stand up for the SW against your DD...... even if the Court stood agaisnt you.... I don'tthink that's true with your child.

You should get another opinion.  It might be enough to have the School Counelor speak on her behalf..... maybe.

[escapingman]

Just for everybody's information, DD is safe and feels better today. She had a counselling session in school which she is very happy about, we have also visited local doctor who has given advice and also deemed her risk of self harm to be low. I have also spoken to school and alerted the social worker. I was quite comforting talking to school and the safe guarding person referring to me as the safe person and that they know that. DD was a bit annoyed about the wasted trip to the doctors, but I am rather safe than sorry and it is good to have it recorded with the doctor.

Thanks for all advice regarding this.

[Poison Ivy]

Thank you for this very positive update, escapingman!