Struggling with the New Me - Part 3

Started by Hopeful Spine, November 25, 2022, 11:39:16 AM

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Hopeful Spine

It's been over a year since my last post.  Some days I really wonder if I'm getting better.  Other days I know I am.

I tried online therapy but it didn't help a whole lot.  I told the therapist that I wanted to get better and needed to be pushed.  I easily shared everything with her.  All my insecurities, efforts, admissions.  I dumped it all out and she was positive and encouraging as she learned about me.  But she didn't give me any real insight or instruction.  I liked the idea of someone "hearing" me but I didn't feel I was making any real progress.  Plus I had to pay for it.  So I finished they program and I stopped.  I've continued to read different topics online.  I've listened to podcasts and found meaningful insights.  I'm trying.

You know how you come to that realization that if you have a problem with everyone then YOU might be the problem?  I reached that conclusion already and have worked hard to change.  To make myself behave how I thought I was "supposed" to be.  I forced myself to be strong, to push myself to be more assertive.  Less judgemental.  More positive.  The one thing I didn't really consider honoring was my natural inclination.  I'm not pushy, social or assertive. 

Example.  I have a terrible time with a group of which I was a board member.  Lots of older crotchety folks on the board.  One in particular was extremely offensive.  A few of the younger ones are sort of on the path to becoming the older crotchety ones.  I committed to this group because I care about the cause.  So I put up with it all and hated it.  For three years I felt like a failure that I couldn't efficiently discard these people's attitudes.  I was always upset.  I would resent the obligations that I needed to fulfil.  I'm terrible at fundraising and that is what I ended up having to do the most.  And every. damn. time.  I had to attend an event I would stress and dread.  I would feel terrible and weak any time I had interactions.  Finally my obligation ended and I opted to not renew my term.  I was relieved of certain tasks.  I felt so much better that I decided I could still continue to participate with a few different sort of responsibilities within the group.  And then I soon realized that only three of those obligations worked for me.  Then slowly one of those things was tarnished by the biggest Bee-itch in the group.

This all made me feel terrible.  I couldn't even "XYZ" without having a problem.  I'm pathetic.  Can't even do the bare minimum while everyone else just get's on with it.  No wonder I can't do most of the things in my life.  It's me.  I'm the problem and I'll never figure it out.

So finally I gave us the things I thought I needed to do and limited myself to do only two things for this organization.  Both which can be done on my own time, on my own schedule and mostly by myself.  This is my happy place.  THIS is how I can contribute.  I'm NOT a loser.  I still interact with people.  In fact, one task I have great joy interacting with others.  I keep deadlines.  I am able to donate and contribute in substantial ways both personally and financially.

I need to accept that I can't fully participate in this group because I need to stay away from difficult people with negative attitudes.  The old me would have thrived on the challenge to please others.  The old me would have loved the drama of the Bee-itch.  I would have feel amazing being a part of the people who banded together against her.

I no longer enjoy rolling my eyes.  But walking away from everything I have ever know seems to be a mistake, a failure, and a rejection of others.

When I force myself to fit into a group of people I do not understand, enjoy or appreciate I feel like a failure. 

When I am quiet, on my own and in a positive place I can do amazing things for myself and others. 

The solution is to find the places that bring me peace.  So many places don't.

I spent so many years blaming others for being mean, inconsiderate and jerky.  I thought I was perfect.  Then I spent several years considering that I was the terrible one and everyone else is normal.  I'm finally realizing that it's a mix and a balance.  Maybe some organizations ARE tainted and terrible and I just don't have the personality to succeed?  Maybe some organizations are fine and I'm just not a good fit and I don't handle it well?  And finally there are some organizations that suit me and are full of people that are great.

Maybe I am finding myself in so many bad situations because I put myself in them time and again.  Now that I'm awake -  I don't have a clue how to move forward because I still want to "win" all these cases.  I want to "win" by changing the organization to a positive fun group of people.  I want to "win" by being friends with all my sister in laws (even though they have no interest).  I want to "win" by being popular with my peers in my professional arena.  I want to "win" by doing my regular work as well as supporting a bunch of other people who use my office.

In my head I am "losing" in so many ways.  And I'm not seeing that the lose of some of these duties and relationships are actually a win.

I recently saw a video of a guy who desperately needed to lose weight.  It was a real medical crisis and the guy has done every possible to help himself.  He finally gave up and moved away from his regular life to a remote part of the world.  Away from habits, dangerous foods, people.  He walked, reflected, appreciated his surroundings.  And he thrived and changed his health before he moved back to claim his life.

I can't do this.  I want to but I can't.  But maybe I can do something similar to stop things in it's track and free up my mind to begin again.

Lookin 2 B Free

Thanks for sharing so deeply and honestly, HS.  I agree.  Just like families there are some organizations that run on a dysfunctional system and attract members who live and relate like that.  It sounds like you are becoming kinder to yourself, which is wonderful.    it reminds me of a quote I came across: 

"The one thing you can control is how you treat yourself. And that one thing can change everything."

I don't think it's unusual to find yourself not gelling with various groups, especially when you're not 20 YO anymore.   I hope you find one that gives you a sense of belonging.

As far as self-improvement stuff, I always like the reminders "baby steps" and "easy does it."   Being harsh isn't necessary
   

Hopeful Spine

Quote from: Lookin 2 B Free on November 25, 2022, 09:29:57 PM
"The one thing you can control is how you treat yourself. And that one thing can change everything."

As far as self-improvement stuff, I always like the reminders "baby steps" and "easy does it."   Being harsh isn't necessary


Thank you for this.  I feel like I have been taking baby steps for years.  I've been trying new things and none of it seems to be the right direction.  I'm getting confused by the baby steps in addition to the new things.
So now I'm thinking I need to just STOP everything I can - and breathe - before moving forward.  But I have built a complicated life of relationships, obligations and financial reasons why I can't seem to stop.

I've always wanted to have an antique store in a little touristy area.  I had it all mapped out in my head how I'd run it.  I never took the plunge.  Recently I rented a tiny little cubby in a popular antique shop I admire.  I always enjoyed shopping there.  So I gave it a shot and I love it.  And I'm good at it!    When I am at a thrift store and purchase something that I know is good I get excited.  When I look at my cart and see that, without even trying, I purchased a perfectly coordinated collection of lovely things I feel impressed with myself.  It's a bit of a thrill to see what I've done without even trying.  Sometimes I add my own twist to an item.  Maybe a ribbon or a piece of my own art.  And THEN - when it sells - it's just an amazing feeling.  I was right!  It WAS good.  I haven't felt that way in a long time.

Given the rest of my life, I don't have time for this new venture.  But I seem to be making time.  And loving it.  I can't do it full time - yet.  I can't abandon my real work but I see a path to a new place.  I feel a new life brewing.  I feel a bit of hope that I can transition to something better - even if I have to shut down a lot of my old life to do it.

Today I am unapologetically saying "no" to a popular college football game.  The rest of my in laws are excited. But I don't care.  I'm going to work on my own stuff while my husband enjoys himself.  I don't care if they think I'm lame or boring.  I used to care a lot.

Later tonight there is a HUGE high school game that a nephew is playing in.  His mother is my difficult sister in law.  I struggle with her a lot because she is manipulative and a true PD person.  The old me would have made time later tonight to dress warm and attend this game in support of HER.  Not the kid - her.  I briefly felt guilty because I did not attend last week.  And she pulled the strings with grand group texts about how much she appreciated those that DID attended.  She raved about how great the family support was.  The old me would have been there, trying to get credit for the effort.  Hoping she'd be happy to share that proud moment with me.  Wanting her to post a picture of us on social media.  I would have wanted all that.

Then I remembered all the (many) times she actively did not include me in her children's lives.  Or when she did, she did it in a passive aggressive way that showed me where she valued me in her life.  I have also learned over the years that while I may love and enjoy my nieces and nephews - they don't really think about me a whole lot.  Maybe that kid would have appreciated me attending the game but he certainly isn't missing me and he isn't lacking any sort of support.

So I plan to congratulate both the kid and his parents when I see them at the Christmas party.  I will acknowledge that she should be very proud.  I will even gush a little before I retreat back to my grey rock.  But I'm not going to take the bait when she talks about those who DID support her.  I don't need to worry about losing value of a relationship that has none.  I may have to spend a little time watching her with the people she DOES value but I don't need to feel sad or longing about the fact that I don't make the cut.

Lookin 2 B Free

What an inspiring post!  I'm so happy for your wonderful changes!   I think aligning our time and effort with our heartfelt priorities is so important. 

Joy is a powerful kind of feedback.  Why would you not take time for something that brings you joy?

And why would you take time to be guilted and manipulated into something that isn't important and you don't want to do?  Bravo for being true to yourself!

It sounds like you have gained a lot of self trust over time.  What a wonderful gift!  Congratulations!

SonofThunder

Quote from: Lookin 2 B Free on November 26, 2022, 11:40:34 PM
What an inspiring post!  I'm so happy for your wonderful changes!   I think aligning our time and effort with our heartfelt priorities is so important. 

Joy is a powerful kind of feedback.  Why would you not take time for something that brings you joy?

And why would you take time to be guilted and manipulated into something that isn't important and you don't want to do?  Bravo for being true to yourself!

It sounds like you have gained a lot of self trust over time.  What a wonderful gift!  Congratulations!
:yeahthat: +1

SoT
Proverbs 17:1
A meal of bread and water in peace is better than a banquet spiced with quarrels.

2 Timothy 1:7
For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love and self-discipline.

Proverbs 29:11
A fool gives full vent to his spirit, but a wise man quietly holds it back.

Hopeful Spine

Thanks for the kind comments. 

I left for a two day road trip with my husband.  It was a lovely, relaxing, fun time. 

I was surprised how often I thought of his family and how much they bother me.   We weren't even talking about them but here and there - when we weren't chatting - I'd be thinking of them.  Walking through a beautiful nature preserve, I'd think about how I was NOT going to post any photos in the family chat.  While waiting for our meal to arrive, I thought about how Thanksgiving with them was okay but I started ruminated on Christmas and how it might go. 

We have construction starting at our home and I just imagined how funny it will be when the Christmas party rolls around how we'd be able to casually mention that the building was almost done.  And how surprised and maybe impressed they would be.  Then maybe they'd finally realize that we are important too.

I KNOW that this sort of thinking is unhealthy.  We have a long history of his family disregarding us.  When we have difficult times they pretend it's not a big deal.  For instance, we had a barn fire and lost a LOT of stuff we had in storage.  My husband lost almost all of his business equipment.  "Oh well, it's only stuff.  At least your house is okay." 

Awhile ago, my husband was sick for the better part of the year.  It ended up being a rare parasite and once discovered it was easily treated.  But his health was seriously in danger as well as his employment, due to his absences.  "Oh well, at least you know it's not cancer."  When a rare, well-meaning family members would ask about things we'd notice eye rolls from many others and they would start leaving the room.

So of course we'd think that there was a problem with us. Maybe we were too needy.  Maybe we played the victim.  Maybe we were weak and pathetic and they were just "done" hearing our sob story.  So we'd downplay our struggles.  Or not mention them at all.  We made concentrated efforts to ask all these people what is going on in their lives and we'd congratulate or commiserate accordingly.  It didn't make a difference.

But none of it has given us any indication that they really understand, value or care about us.  We watch pairs of them band together to help each other with much smaller trials.  And we're scratching our heads.  Just recently, one of them (one of the better ones) received a cancer diagnosis and it's scary.  It's better now but no one is comfortable.  Everyone is going nuts with their support, prayers, gifts and love.  We've personally spent over $500 in tokens and efforts of support.  Others have given much more. 

I'm not proud to admit that it gives me conflicted feelings.  Why?  Why didn't anyone give a crap about us when we had serious problems?  Did the WHOLE house have to burn down before we received support?  Even then they would probably say, "well you have insurance and no one was hurt, so . . .".

I KNOW there is a difference between my husbands past health issues and his brothers very grim diagnosis.  I KNOW that.  And I feel like a shit every time these feelings of hurt and jealously creeps into my head.  But I feel justified in a way.  That fire was extremely scary.  The aftermath has been challenging and confusing.  My husband had a good business going and it was destroyed and it's been do difficult to deal with rebuilding it all.  When we was sick we had to deal with a lot of medical stuff that was foreign to even our doctors.  So many test, insurance, lost work, stress.  And no answers.  In both cases they expressed a casual interest at best.

At Thanksgiving I sat next to my BIL who was filming another BIL doing something silly.  People were howling with laughter.  I was too, because in the moment I was appreciating their fun-loving nature.  Then he nudged me and said, "this is the BEST family ever."  That was like a wet blanket.  He's comfortable and loved in this family.  We are not.

I didn't say anything in return.  I didn't need to.  He was already moving on to someone better to talk to.

My SIL's child has a big sporting event coming up.  Even though I don't care about sports, I know it's a big deal and the kid totally deserves to have the love, support, and excitement of his family.  But me - I'm going to sit this out. Even though I believe SIL will expect everyone to show their support by attending the final game.  My husband will go because he's got a relationship with the kid.  But I won't.  And I fantasized what I could say in response to what is sure to be her passive aggressive comments.

But every time I get worked up like this nothing happens.  They do not care about my efforts or absence.  They seem to be living their best life and here I am stewing over it.  I am not focused on my own goals, dreams or activities.  Most everything I do is in spite of them.  I want to be free of this dysfunctional feeling.  I try so hard to apply my good efforts to the positive things, people and events in my life.  There are MANY positive, good, things in my life.  But I focus on those who I feel have rejected us. 

I am a person with many, many, many blessings.  Why can't I accept the rejection and move forward?

Hopeful Spine

Almost everyone in the family is attending a sporting event that one of my nephews is participating in.  I know it's an important moment for the kid.  I understand the support that everyone else is offering by their attendance.  But I am not there.  I do not want to be there.  There are certainly a few others in the family who are not attending so I'm not the only one.

The ones attending have plans and various pairings together to enjoy this event.  In the family text chain they are sharing pics of them together.  Smiling faces.  Arms around each other.  Joy.

I know that if I TRIED to be there, I still wouldn't be in those pics.  Maybe I would be included if I paid attention and made sure to be in the right place, at the right time.  They'd probably let me edge into frame.  But I'd had experiences where after I walked away they took another pic of just them.

I don't understand it.  I have spent the last couple years purging my friend list and being real about who I authentically consider my friend.  And I still have many people who like me and invite me places.  I have people who DO text me just for the heck of it.  I have people who actively come to me at parties so that they can catch up with me.  And I genuinely love and respect them.  I KNOW I'm not a terrible or annoying person.

And I'm pretty much like everyone else in the family.  I grew up in the same region.  I am from the same economic class.  I know many of the same people they know.  I have a home like their homes.  I neither live grander or more shabby than anyone else.  I'm NOT a mutant who sniffs at their way of life.

So why does this family - a huge family that takes on many family friends - feel the need to shun me in these passive aggressive ways?  It hurts so much. 

By the way, my husband is attending the same game but he went with a friend.  He probably won't even sit near his siblings or parents.  My heart hurts for my husband who has finally dropped the rope on his family.  I'm so blessed that he makes the efforts to find his place elsewhere.  I have too.  I just hate being reminded of how this family rejects me.

I would love to stop seeing them.  But we live in such a small community that I'd run into them anyway.
I'd love to exit the family text chain.  But then I really will be in the dark on my nieces and nephews - who I love.

I have to find a way to make peace within myself in regards to them.

SonofThunder

#7
Quote from: Hopeful Spine on December 03, 2022, 04:14:07 PM
The ones attending have plans and various pairings together to enjoy this event.  In the family text chain they are sharing pics of them together.  Smiling faces.  Arms around each other.  Joy.

...I have to find a way to make peace within myself in regards to them.

Hi Hopeful Spine,

I consider myself somewhat educated in these personality disorders and how far-reaching the PD's manipulate in control, using every available tool at their disposal.  In addition, im able to better align my own experiences with these methods of covert PD control over the decades, and now know that the "smiling faces",  "arms around each other" and "joy" are in many cases, not really the deeper truth. 

Some of the smiling faces in the pictures of my extended family photo albums include persons whom I know suffer in the manipulative abuse caused by a PD who is standing near, and smiling with, their victim in the very same picture.  For folks who are not  'in the know', those pictures in my album may look like "joy", but I know there is much obligation to be in the picture, and that the true heart of the abused is hidden behind the facade of  "smiling faces" and the "arms around each other". 

Therefore for me, my "peace within myself" is knowing that i am one of the few who are bold enough to not show up, because i am correctly self-protective, and also refuse to promote the continuation of the cover-up that occurs with all the smiles and gatherings.  Imo, the continuations of the status quo are silenced acceptance of abuse by the victims and that in itself, is fuel for PD's.

Imo, you should be proud of yourself and your boldness in boundaries, not to participate.  That gives me the peace I need, while others can simply adult themselves. 

SoT
Proverbs 17:1
A meal of bread and water in peace is better than a banquet spiced with quarrels.

2 Timothy 1:7
For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love and self-discipline.

Proverbs 29:11
A fool gives full vent to his spirit, but a wise man quietly holds it back.

Hopeful Spine

Quote from: SonofThunder on December 04, 2022, 10:32:25 AM
Therefore for me, my "peace within myself" is knowing that i am one of the few who are bold enough to not show up, because i am correctly self-protective, and also refuse to promote the continuation of the cover-up that occurs with all the smiles and gatherings.  Imo, the continuations of the status quo are silenced acceptance of abuse by the victims and that in itself, is fuel for PD's.

Imo, you should be proud of yourself and your boldness in boundaries, not to participate.  That gives me the peace I need, while others can simply adult themselves. 

Thanks for that.

Everyone believes this family is so amazing. In fact, over the weekend I attended a party and I met a person who knew one of my BILs.  She made a comment about how great he is and asked, "are they all so special and down to earth as he is?"  I just smiled and said something bland like, "yes, they are a special family."

But I KNOW that this brother has been a shit to my husband.  I KNOW that he can be the worst.  That's what bugs me.  This family has everyone fooled. 

I was thinking recently about how much they change depending on how you approach them.  If, even today, I would show up to a holiday party and say, "OMG, you guys are just the BEST!  I'm so lucky I get to be here."  They would roll out the red carpet and charm me all day.  Funny little jokes, nudges and cute exchanges.  This is what I used to do.

When I got more comfortable in the family and I realized that, "hey!  I'm one of them now and I'm fun too!" I'd attend parties with the attitude of "Let's have a blast and have as much fun as possible!"  Well.  Then the return attitude was more like, "mmmmmm, we'll see."  And they would go off and be friendly and fun with anyone who stoked their ego.  Or they would focus on entertaining a new person, such as a nieces boyfriend who attended for the first time.  I would be seen as a pest.  It's clear that I'm not "one of them."

If I go into the party with the attitude of "I'm low key, I'm going to hang back while you guys have your fun."  They act like I'm a boring bitch and ignore me.

My best solution is to fawn all over them the minute I get there so that everyone feels happy and friendly.  But I can't fawn anymore.  I just can't.

In the last couple years we've really distanced ourselves and now we don't get into most text chains (such as the sporting event activities).  We rarely share anything with them or offer information about our lives.  No one asks.  For instance, we're doing a major construction on our property to replace a building that was destroyed by fire.  It's almost completely up but we haven't told anyone or shared anything on social media.  My husband takes a twisted sense of satisfaction in this.  That we are living our lives without their input or support.  I too sort of fantasize how it will feel to say, "oh, yes, the building is up and he's been working out of it for weeks.  We've been too busy to even tell anyone."  But they won't care.  Nothing will impress them.

SoT - I get what you are saying.  Those photos aren't the truth and there are manipulations under the surface.  I can see that when my husband is included in a group photo.  He looks happy but I know it's fleeting.  But the rest of them - they all seem to be 100% happy with each other.  There's like 4 ringleaders and they all seem to be happy to take their turns leading the circus.  And supporting the others when it's their turn.  But we're tired of watching "their show".  We want to be respected and loved within this family but we feel tolerated at best.

How do you just STOP the negative feelings from coming back.  Do you have a mantra.  Do you say a prayer?  Like what do you specifically DO to fight this.  I just can't seem to shake these feelings.

JustKeepTrying

HS - If I didn't know better I would say your in-law family was my in-law family.  That cruelty is covert and feels like are rejection of self.  A rejection of your core essence.

But it isn't

Remember that their rejection and action is a reflection of them - their inability/their issues/their problems - not of you.  You represent everything they can't be or have - and that is where you will find your power and your truth.

If you have to tell yourself that in the mirror every day do so.  If you have to silence the notifications from the text chain, do so.  If you have to stop and only go to events like high holidays, do so.  Your peace, your spirit - your life.

SonofThunder

#10
Quote from: JustKeepTrying on December 06, 2022, 11:08:47 AM
Remember that their rejection and action is a reflection of them - their inability/their issues/their problems - not of you.  You represent everything they can't be or have - and that is where you will find your power and your truth.
:yeahthat:

HopefulSpine,

As much as I would prefer the negative feelings to stop, they keep on coming...like normally spaced ocean waves.  I personally believe its just part of the social interconnectivity of human beings.  Family interconnectivity, all the more prevalent.

I do not have a mantra per-se, but rather an awareness that the negative feelings are present; awareness they will come and go...like manageable ocean waves; awareness that they will pass if I just accept their presence, ride them gently up, over the top and down the backside.  I will enjoy the calmer space in-between but am fully aware that i will repeat the up and over on the next wave's arrival.  Wash, rinse, repeat.

I agree with JKT that going as NC/LC as possible, surely helps in minimizing.  For me, the NC/LC methods help space the waves further apart and/or reduces the height of the wave, which allows my feet to possibly remain firmly in the sand while that wave passes.  But in my own experiences, the PD's and their flying monkey's (knowingly or unknowingly) cause a larger wave on occasion, even with my NC/LC methods. 

Yes, as a Christian, prayer is an interconnectivity relationship i enjoy, but it does not alter my expectation of waves.  If a storm of activity occurs without my ability to control, i know to expect even those large storm waves where my feet don't touch the sand, and even rip-currents.  Therefore i know i will still float up, over and down the larger storm waves, and if I find myself in a a tumultuous rip current of emotional-feeling events, i heed the expert instruction of not fighting against the strong current's forces, but rather let that current take me out to deeper water, and when the current slows it's pull, i know to swim sideways until out of the offshore flow, and then back to the shallows; my feet on solid ground with normal waves.

This more-relaxed wave and rip-current floating analogy is my memory 'mantra' of reminding myself that I'm human, and interconnected by my humanness.  Therefore, i tell myself that the up-over-down wave floating is a constant, expected and ok to have in my life.  Im fully aware of its permanent existence. Yet I also know that wave fighting, is not a wise move for me, for it eventually leaves me worn out and powerless, struggling even in the normally spaced smaller waves. 

Best wishes to you as you navigate those feelings.

SoT
Proverbs 17:1
A meal of bread and water in peace is better than a banquet spiced with quarrels.

2 Timothy 1:7
For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love and self-discipline.

Proverbs 29:11
A fool gives full vent to his spirit, but a wise man quietly holds it back.

Jolie40

#11
Quote from: Hopeful Spine on December 06, 2022, 08:52:58 AM
Everyone believes this family is so amazing.
This family has everyone fooled. 

How do you just STOP the negative feelings from coming back. 

yes, to above
not a FB follower but I see the posts on GC brother & GC sister's FB pages (open to all posts)
they both appear like perfect people on FB
I always think "if only people knew the truth!"

unfortunately, negative feelings re GC still pop up
I tell husband "can't believe this or that"
he tells me to let it go.....it's hard though!

I asked GC to drive me to store (before I renewed license that expired)
got a  "no" even tho she manages to go out several times/wk with a "lonely" friend to lunch, dinner, shopping & is not even working now

couldn't drive me to a store 5 min from my house?
I've done SO many things for GC whenever she needed help!
GC won't do one little thing for me....it's unreal



be good to yourself

Hopeful Spine

Quote from: JustKeepTrying on December 06, 2022, 11:08:47 AM
HS - If I didn't know better I would say your in-law family was my in-law family.  That cruelty is covert and feels like are rejection of self.  A rejection of your core essence.

But it isn't

Remember that their rejection and action is a reflection of them - their inability/their issues/their problems - not of you.  You represent everything they can't be or have - and that is where you will find your power and your truth.

If you have to tell yourself that in the mirror every day do so.  If you have to silence the notifications from the text chain, do so.  If you have to stop and only go to events like high holidays, do so.  Your peace, your spirit - your life.

Thank you for all this.  On some level I know this to be true.  My husband is 10 years sober after a decade of terrible behavior and mistakes.  In his years of sobriety he's found unexpected success as a specific business that I know makes some of the others jealous.  But their lives are great too.  Many of them are alcoholics but they are highly functioning and have work success, beautiful homes, lots of great tangible things that spell success.  Maybe there are things I don't know.  It would be different if ONE of them had a problem with us.  BUt when so many do - it makes you feel like the problem.

Hopeful Spine

Quote from: SonofThunder on December 06, 2022, 12:14:41 PM
HopefulSpine,

As much as I would prefer the negative feelings to stop, they keep on coming...like normally spaced ocean waves.  I personally believe its just part of the social interconnectivity of human beings.  Family interconnectivity, all the more prevalent.

I do not have a mantra per-se, but rather an awareness that the negative feelings are present; awareness they will come and go...like manageable ocean waves; awareness that they will pass if I just accept their presence, ride them gently up, over the top and down the backside.  I will enjoy the calmer space in-between but am fully aware that i will repeat the up and over on the next wave's arrival.  Wash, rinse, repeat.

SoT

All of that insight was incredibly helpful.  I'm going to try this mindset during the holiday season.  Typically I feel like pond scum around them - so riding waves doesn't even occur to me.  I brace myself, waiting for whenever the crash MIGHT happen and then usually the wave pulls me under.  Maybe this year I can better anticipate that the wave WILL happen and then just allow it.  Thank you!

Hopeful Spine

Quote from: Jolie40 on December 06, 2022, 12:20:03 PM

yes, to above
not a FB follower but I see the posts on GC brother & GC sister's FB pages (open to all posts)
they both appear like perfect people on FB
I always think "if only people knew the truth!"

unfortunately, negative feelings re GC still pop up
I tell husband "can't believe this or that"
he tells me to let it go.....it's hard though!

I asked GC to drive me to store (before I renewed license that expired)
got a  "no" even tho she manages to go out several times/wk with a "lonely" friend to lunch, dinner, shopping & is not even working now

couldn't drive me to a store 5 min from my house?
I've done SO many things for GC whenever she needed help!
GC won't do one little thing for me....it's unreal

I totally understand those irritations.  My in laws do this with their mother.  Too busy to do certain things for her but they have all the time in the world for other people or their friends.  Then DH and I pick up the pieces.  A family friend lost his vacation cabin due to fire.  Everyone banded together to help with the rebuild.  They even bought this guy a collection of t-shirts to replace the ones he lost in the fire.  All of this is pretty nice.  Obviously the family friend was touched.  Then a year later when we had a fire - they acted bored and did 100% NOTHING.

It's so frustrating to listen to people praise them for their actions over one event, while we suffered alone during a similar one. 

JustKeepTrying

HS (I like your handle btw) - the reason they helped the family friend is because it looks good to the community.  Helping family does not raise face - unless you are big in the community or connected politically - no need to help you.  Does nothing for them in return.  Similar to the house we lived in when my kids were little - my xOCPDh would take care of the lawn so the neighborhoods would applaud him for the work and effort with the house and kids.  But inside it was hands off I don't care and just a never ending pile of stuff.  All looks good from the outside.

Look into mindfulness like SOT suggested - daily meditation and mindfulness techniques will help with the stress of dealing with them.  The more you practice the more you can ride the waves.

I am also including a link to a stategy my T calls Coping Ahead.  It helps for the times I'm going into a stressful situation.  In fact, I have that right now as I am having dinner with an old friend whose mother recently passed.  I plan on following the worksheet but my T suggested that you spend no more than 30 minutes on the imagining part.  Otherwise you will loose yourself.  https://www.sharp.com/hospitals/mesa-vista/programs/upload/Cope-Ahead.pdf. Practice on few simple things like doc visit or grocery run before you do a big family stressor.

SonofThunder

#16
Quote from: Hopeful Spine on December 08, 2022, 11:29:11 AM
Maybe this year I can better anticipate that the wave WILL happen and then just allow it.  Thank you!

HopefulSpine yes! 

Riding that anticipated wave up over and down is (as JKT is stating above) proactive, mental planning ahead.  If you have been out into the ocean surf before, you will know that being where the waves crash is a very volatile place to reside and is a choice.  In the curl's location, the water is very low visibility with stirred-up sand and whitewater in the crashing waves, and many times I get knocked down. 

But if I purposefully advance-swim out to deeper waters, i get beyond the crashing and it is there where the very same waves are much more manageable and predictable; allowing me to simply float up with, over the non-curled top and back down the other side.  In that purposeful position, the water below is also much more clear.  The sure expectation of ocean waves, allows me a much calmer ocean experience, and not being in the turmoil of the curls, I find that the increased advanced mental placement, allows me to deploy the toolbox much better. 

PD's are predictable enough to say that waves will be occurring. The size, frequency and duration between the drama waves is the difficult portion to predict.  But, if I float out far enough, it doesn't matter.  Up-over-down, up-over-down, wash-rinse-repeat.   Shorebirds understand this well and just bob-along, out beyond the curl.  I will be like a Seagull or Pelican and just float along with the expected waves, watching them crash in on others from out in my prepared mental floating spot.

SoT
Proverbs 17:1
A meal of bread and water in peace is better than a banquet spiced with quarrels.

2 Timothy 1:7
For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love and self-discipline.

Proverbs 29:11
A fool gives full vent to his spirit, but a wise man quietly holds it back.

Hopeful Spine

The big family party was yesterday.  I was so busy prior that I didn't really have time to get worked up which was a good thing.

The night before I "spitefully" made a new cookie recipe.  I used to make all sorts of fun things to contribute to the meal.  In the early years I enjoyed it, but my husband's sister (who we consider the bully of the family) used to make passive aggressive comments about my food so I slowly started scaling back.  Then, when my husband and I had marital troubles I lost the interest in contributing and I certainly did NOT want attention so I provided easy things like bags of chips or a tray of fruit.  I never really bounced back to my original joy of contributing.  So when I felt happy last night making the effort to try a new recipe.  And yes, bit of me felt a little spiteful and even a little thrill, thinking maybe DH's sister will TRY her old tricks.  "Bring it" is what I said to myself.

In the end I made some special cookies, which were well received by my husband and eaten without comment by the rest of the party.  I felt happy to try something new.  I felt a little sad that no one complimented me.  A little disappointed to not have my "I don't care what you say to me" moment. 

I also feel I have more work to do.  I'm a little ashamed that I carried that spite with me but my hope is that I'm now on the path to doing things that bring me joy and in the future won't be concerned with my old bully or dependent on favorable comments by the family.

Another interesting thing happened.  I have a terrible SIL (DH's brothers wife).  I won't rehash it all because I've discussed her in my past threads.  But 7ish years ago she said TERRIBLE things about my husband.  It is a complicated situation and she wasn't entirely wrong in her feelings but her timing, her attitude and many of her actions were unfair and excessive.  I know she was geared by anxiety but it was sort of the last straw for me and I have avoided her every since.  I used to consider her a good sister and close friend.  I HAVE forgiven her for her actions but I have never gotten over her inability to circle back, apologize, feel a little remorse.  Or more importantly, invite me back into her life.  Her last words to use were, "go have kids of your own and leave mine alone."

Anyway, in the years since she has avoided me as well.  For awhile Dh's brother made efforts.  Extra friendly to us.  Invites to their kid's events.  All done without a real conversation and apology for how his wife behaved towards us.  His efforts landed badly.  Then, for a couple years, he became distant, sort of judgey when in a group converstion with others.  In recent years he's made purposeful efforts to hug us and express love.  One time he said, with great emotion and meaning, that he was praying for me.  It totally f--ks with me.  I am a mess, I know this but I'm getting help, I'm being mindful, I'm getting better with setting boundaries.  I pray for guidance.  I am kind.  I am simply not talking to HER.  For me to pedal this hard and still have one of your "enemies" make a big deal about praying for you - it's a weird sort of gaslighting.

Anyway, through it all my SIL never speaks to me.  The last couple of family events she's been very bubbly, giggly and happy.  She seems to be making great friends with my bully.  Very social, loud, and fun.  This is how I used to remember her.  How she used to behave with me.  It's incredibly annoying but I press on with my boundaries.  But yesterday was different.

I am a great gift wrapper.  Something I used to celebrate and enjoy.  Until I allowed the bully to ruined it for me.  Even though I don't go overboard anymore it's a family joke that I'm the best and it's often mentioned during the gift exchange.  The first gift was a very basic wrap job and someone in the family legitimately joked, "Oh yeah, this one was done by HS for sure."  It happened a few other times.  It was very friendly and fun and okay.  But during one gift my SIL tried to join in - and she honestly did it in a friendly way.  She addressed me directly, "HS, don't listen to them.  They are just jealous.  HS, they only want to be as good as you." 

This year I DID go overboard and extravagently wrapped a gift.  When it was SIL's turn to bring a gift to someone else she choose my extra fancy package to deliver to the intended person.  She made a big deal of showing off the wrapping and making people "ohh" and "ahhh". 

To make things even worse - SHE was my Secret Santa and I had to thank her for my gift.

I KNOW SIL was being kind.  She wasn't being a jerk or passive aggressive or mean in any way.  This was a real attempt by her to connect with me.  Maybe even apologize to me.  I totally believe that.  And a part of me was shocked and happy.

BUT.  She has done this all before.  Hurt me in smaller ways and then moves on without any real apology.

I am hurt that she choose a very public way to do this.  I'm incredulous that she thinks that she can just hop into a conversation and just "pretend" that we're okay.  I'm scared that, after seven years, I might allow her back in without receiving any accountability or respect.  So I avoided her the rest of the evening and I hid in the bathroom while her family left.  All her kids were hugging us goodbye and I couldn't chance that she'd try to hug me.

I used the wave technique.  I told myself I was I was going to sit in the deep end with my husband, my cookie tray and the fancy gift.  It's not "safe" in the deep end but I was prepared for it with my strong husband and a few things that brought me joy.  I anticipated waves when I released the cookies but didn't receive any - good or bad.  I was a little disappointed but happy because I was still safe.  When my bully sat next to me I braced myself for those waves and was relieved when they weren't too heavy.  I relaxed a little.  And when SIL made her efforts during gift giving - pumped my legs under the surface and survived by appearing calm above water.

Then I found a lifeboat in the bathroom.  I'm not proud I disappeared - but I was safe.  In the lifeboat I didn't have to feel pain if she didn't hug me and I didn't have to fear how I'd behave if she did hug me.  I was in control of myself while in the lifeboat.  I got to decide how long I'd stay.  I gained composure and when I left the life boat I was able to finish the evening with pride.

I likely won't see SIL until Easter.  My hope, as always, is that SIL would message me with a simple, "I'm sorry." or "I wish I wouldn't have said those things."  or "I miss you and I was wrong."  Those would be honest, private, attempts I could work with.  But odd, unexpected, and forced friendly banter, in front of an audience, in a place I don't consider safe.  Nope - that's not going to work for me. 

The old me would have accepted her where she was.  I'd have been joyfully relieved, thrilled and excited.  I'd have joined her in that friendly joking.  I would have later walked up next to her it the dessert table and playfully bumped into her.  I would have given her one of my fancy cookies and ask what she thought.  I'd have ask about her oldest and her youngest. I'd have sent her a text today telling her that it was nice seeing her.  And I'd have acknowledged that her silly forced comment was an attempt at an apology.  We'd be best friends again.  And I'd have accepted without receiving the words that I deserve to hear.

Today I'm going to spend some time alone in my office, doing things I like.  Later I'll join my husband and be happy.

SonofThunder

#18
HopefulSpine,

Throughout that entire previous post, i read self-control, planning ahead, emotional and situational awareness (effective radar), excellent balanced mindfulness from a birds-eye view of the entire situation, beginning to end, and a great use of allowing yourself to float with the experiences and emotions vs fighting against the waves. 

The lifeboat analogy of your proactive escape during a anticipated segment of the experience is a well executed 'boundary' that you 100% set and completed for yourself for pre-selected, self-protective reasons, and you utilized the boundary in full, to your advantage. 

Well done!  A big congratulations! 

SoT
Proverbs 17:1
A meal of bread and water in peace is better than a banquet spiced with quarrels.

2 Timothy 1:7
For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love and self-discipline.

Proverbs 29:11
A fool gives full vent to his spirit, but a wise man quietly holds it back.

Hopeful Spine

Quote from: SonofThunder on December 18, 2022, 10:33:35 AM
HopefulSpine,

Throughout that entire previous post, i read self-control, planning ahead, emotional and situational awareness (effective radar), excellent balanced mindfulness from a birds-eye view of the entire situation, beginning to end, and a great use of allowing yourself to float with the experiences and emotions vs fighting against the waves. 

The lifeboat analogy of your proactive escape during a anticipated segment of the experience is a well executed 'boundary' that you 100% set and completed for yourself for pre-selected, self-protective reasons, and you utilized the boundary in full, to your advantage. 

Well done!  A big congratulations! 

SoT

Thank you for this comment and for the idea of the wave technique.  Usually I'm a mess before the party and my husband is a mess after the party.  Happily we both handled ourselves well. Yesterday afternoon we took a long drive and had a nice meal.  Part of our discussion was the family but the majority of the day was a nice calm outing.  In the past we'd have spent almost all our time complaining and rehashing everything.

My bully really IS a bully and the family has just sort of accepted her as she is.  I guess that is what I've been trying to do for years.  Be loving and accepting to this family member.  After all, she had her good points, right?  But that isn't a healthy way to incorporate someone into your life.  I wasn't a strong person when I met her.  I cringe now when I think of all the ways I've let her behave towards and around me.

At the party she needled a high school kid about his recent haircut.  The kid wore a hat because he hated his cut.  She swiped his hat twice and egged on another kid to swipe it a third time.  In two cases the kid left the room and took awhile to come back.  The third time she "playfully" sat on his lap so he couldn't leave.

The bully also heckled her own husband while he was opening gifts.  She spoke in a loud, aggressive voice at other times, even when she didn't have to.  She made negative comments about her fathers drinking and then fished for support when she said, "I hope that I don't behave like that when I'm drinking."  She looked around the table daring one of us to say anything.  I looked away.  Grey rock.

She pre-arranged for her teenage son to pick up a family friend who knew (a week ago) that he'd be too drunk to drive to the party.  She will barely give me or my husband the time of day but she goes out of her way to make sure a toxic family friend is in attendance at the family party.

I used to work so damn hard to get her approval and "respect".  Now I work hard to slide under her radar and avoid even sitting next to her.

My attention to her and her antics is why I can't move on.  I'm finally understanding that I allowed an unhealthy cycle of behavior between us.  Now it's time to move on - even if that means I have to leave a big portion of the family behind.