Thoughts on a discard

[moglow]

I finally came to the conclusion a month or so back - mommie dearest discarded me/us a very long time ago, neither formed nor encouraged any real lasting bond with any of us and in fact tried all our lives to destroy those between me and siblings. To her mind apparently, we have relationships because simply put, we're related. For her that seems enough, until it isn't. We just have no way of knowing when that is or what to do with it. Total failure to communicate on her part, while she continued to complain about things totally outside our bailiwick and she did nothing within her own.

Anyhoo I called her Thanksgiving morning, hadn't spoken at all since early June and there was no indication she'd tried to call me. We were on the phone about two minutes when she had to go, said she'd call me later. She did - later the next day. I'm not sure why, to be honest, other than that relentless recitation of how she's not getting around well. I tried several topics of conversation, they were fazed over or she picked a random phrase and ran with it to no apparent purpose. First time I can remember, she didn't mention one of my brothers or family, didn't even ask where or what I'd done for Thanksgiving. I think she knows, she went too far and there's no undoing it.

Md did admit she's lonely and depressed. Well yeah, I suppose she might be. She isolated herself and discouraged even the simplest visits or phone calls years back, shows no interest in anything anyone has to say. She cut me off mid sentence several times with some weird segue back to herself, then suddenly "I need to finish up here, we'll talk later." Dismissed, just like that. That's kinda how lonely works, md - all she hears are her inner voices and none appear to be bright shining sunlight. She's full of gloom and shadows.

The six-ish months silence provided a lot more clarity than I would have thought. I have no regrets, but also no real emotion there. Bro that lives near her said he thinks she's shutting down, becoming even more reclusive. I told him too she may be randomly taking meds or not, possibly not really aware of time or even forgets so doubles up when she does remember. Pretty sure she's not eating well, moving around little, sleeping a lot from what he told me. I believe he's going to find her in that house one day and I'll get a phone call. And still, I felt nothing other than sorry for her. Such a sad waste of a life.

But me? I'm more peaceful than I can remember. Ever. Not having that constant push-pull has done me a world of good.

[NarcKiddo]

But me? I'm more peaceful than I can remember. Ever. Not having that constant push-pull has done me a world of good.

Good. There's nothing you can do about the pathetic situation she puts herself in, so I am very happy that you are peaceful.

[moglow]

It still stuns me, the complete lack of insight or compassion from a parent. Several of the resentments she ticked off to me months ago took place during a really hard year for all of us - several deaths in the family, including her mother and husb, but also my Daddy/her long ago ex and his mother plus an uncle and I'd had a personal loss during that time as well that I didn't share with her because why bother.

But even when I countered her "list" that day and reminded her that she wasn't the only one grieving and lost during the time of those events, that we were staggering and all going through our own stuff - not a word of compassion from her. Not "I didn't realize that, I'm sorry I didn't even know." I can see being lost in it at the time, oblivious to everything. I know I was. But all that time later and have someone tell you outright, and still not one word??

Talking to her Thanksgiving, I mentioned I was glad to be back at home for my 2nd houseversary - she didn't comment even to ask what I meant. Like, at all. Didn't make any comment whatsoever, just carried on as if I'd not said a word. Not a blip on her radar. Nothing registers with her outside whatever affects her directly. Not even her own family.

C'est la vie. She chose it, built this monster her own self. At least it's not keeping me awake at night like it did.

[Srcyu]

Well, I'm interested. What does 2nd houseversary mean moglow?

You described my mother very well while writing about your own. Not a blip on her radar - nope.

[moglow]

Ha! thank you for that - 2nd anniversary of closing on my first home. It's not a mansion or anything spectacular but I was 58 years old at the time so it's still a pretty big thing!  I'd worked a long time to pull it together, had some very low and near homeless times before. Another time where I'd accomplished something on my own and she didn't even blink.

[Sneezy]

Congratulations on your second houseversary!!!  Buying a house, especially the way the economy has been in the past few years, is an accomplishment.  I hope your home is the perfect sanctuary for you (or the perfect wild and crazy party house if that's what you prefer  ).

It sure does sound like your mom has squandered many opportunities to have meaningful and fulfilling relationships.  Sad for her, but as you know, there is nothing you can do to change her in this regard.  She has made choices that have led her to where she is.  As far as her reclusive behavior, my uHMIL got like this in her late seventies.  I think she felt like she was punishing us by pulling away and becoming a recluse (our very own Greta Garbo in her mind).  The truth is I so enjoyed those years!  Peace and quiet and no drama - it was such a feeling of relief.  (Things have changed now that she has dementia and is living in memory care near us.  But at least she is sweeter nowadays - the drama is still there, but it's nothing like it used to be.)  One person's reclusive behavior is another person's serenity and peace.

[moglow]

One person's reclusive behavior is another person's serenity and peace.

Absolutely Sneezy! More  every day.


I can't help but wonder what she expected, we're all going to chase her down, gather round to watch over her? There's no awareness the we've all been living our own lives, making a living and raising families. She'll ask token questions and move on with her stuff before you've barely said a word. There doesn't seem to be even the most superficual interest.

My brother (the only one she talks to) had told her I was staying with niece's dog a few days. I started telling her about him, she segued off to the breed and the stories of how dangerous it supposedly is. I told her only thing dangerous with this dog is suffocation because he insists on staying attached to his people at all times. She launched into "the stories" and how I needed to stay away from him. I saw it as a way of sharing our life, maybe a funny story and a shared interest while she turned even that into doom and gloom. There's no way to find level conversational ground with her. And even then, she didn't ask about her granddaughter or indicate interest.

I guess it finally got me because finally buying my own place was HuGE! I'd been through so much and had had some disappointments through the process before. It was a lot to take on and go through alone, even my somewhat distant /reserved brother was proud for me, commented what an accomplishments was. Yeah I guess I wanted her approval, or maybe the attagirl I know she doesn't have hidden away anywhere. I KNOW this.

[Sneezy]

I can't help but wonder what she expected, we're all going to chase her down, gather round to watch over her?

Yeah, I can pretty much guarantee that's exactly what she thought.  My uHMIL used to say she was going to live wherever she wanted and do whatever she wanted until she needed help, and then she was going to move near her children.  My covert NPD mom loves to moan about how she doesn't "want to be a burden" to her children, and I can just hear how much she relishes being a burden in her voice. 

I think our parents didn't get the security and love they needed.  And as they get older, that lack of security becomes downright scary.  And so they clutch on to their children, thinking we can fix whatever is wrong.  But we can't go back in time and shake their parents and say "give your kid the love and security she needs, so she isn't driving me crazy 80 years from now."  Sadly, we can't fix their problems.  And we need to steer clear of their black hole of despair, because getting caught up in all that is a sure way to hurt ourselves.

[bloomie]

Moglow - Congrats on your 2 year Houseversary! What a triumph!

I have noticed, with my own discarding elder, that the world that she lived in and expected to revolve around her has gotten smaller and smaller as she ages. To the point she doesn't have the wherewithal to even pretend she cares about the lives of her family members any longer. She has zero interest in others unless she needs or wants something from them or there is some kind of negative, gossipy info to be chewed on. She calls it "news".

I guess it finally got me because finally buying my own place was HuGE! I'd been through so much and had had some disappointments through the process before. It was a lot to take on and go through alone, even my somewhat distant /reserved brother was proud for me, commented what an accomplishments was. Yeah I guess I wanted her approval, or maybe the attagirl I know she doesn't have hidden away anywhere. I KNOW this.

Who wouldn't want to celebrate and be celebrated at this incredible milestone!! That is a break out the champagne and dance once in a lifetime event!!

For me, the inability to sincerely celebrate and champion others is a deal breaker. And my observation is that those who are unable or unwilling to do this, to show true interest in others, end up living a lonely brittle life.

[moglow]

Sneezy, I think in md's case, her family over-catered to her every whim. Based on random comments from them and her own admission of some situations, she was allowed to run over everyone in her path including her parents. No one was allowed to correct her, she didn't have normal chores like the other kids in the family, she was the baby and basically could do as she wished. No one could cross her. It sounds like even then she was all more-more-MORE, and her meltdowns were to be feared even then. She ultimately ended up with no relationships with anyone outside the siblings who continued to pat her on the head and baby her, no friends, shunned her own children and grands. I believe she was hardwired from very early on that she's the only one who matters - I've honestly seen very little to indicate otherwise.

Right now I see her behavior as another turn of the same wheel she's ridden as far back as I can remember: Stage senseless drama in a bid for attention and control, then sit back while others jump to her defense and/or turn on each other in the process. Go quiet, wait for someone to approach, or if it's been "too long" send random text with a fauxpology or blaming someone else for her behavior. Or flat out play dumb as if nothing could possibly be wrong and we're blowing things out of proportion. Begin massive rug sweeping and blame shifting campaign while she plays innocent victim of it all. When history is rewritten to her satisfaction, tell that story and stick to it no matter what, as if that's what actually happened. Wipe her personal slate clean of any ill feeling or wrong doing, and Little Mary Sunshine temporarily appears. Get comfortable with her chosen new "friend" and start ramping new or dredging up old drama ... lather rinse repeat.

[moglow]

Dear Lord, Bloomie, your every word is mine. but this:

For me, the inability to sincerely celebrate and champion others is a deal breaker.

I'd not thought it exactly that way but YES.

[moglow]

I have noticed, with my own discarding elder, that the world that she lived in and expected to revolve around her has gotten smaller and smaller as she ages. To the point she doesn't have the wherewithal to even pretend she cares about the lives of her family members any longer. She has zero interest in others unless she needs or wants something from them or there is some kind of negative, gossipy info to be chewed on. She calls it "news". (https://outofthefog.net/forum/Smileys/default/no.gif)

I suspect like with mine, that shrinking circle may have to do with a) no one wanting to gossip and b) therefore getting no new "news" to exchange. Mother believed that because they were family, it was naturally my business and I must become involved in their personal business. I mean she got mean about it at times, clearly offended that I wouldnt thrust myself right up in it with her. It confirmed my earlier suspicions that she shared everything with anyone who'd stand still long enough, and I learned to filter what I shared as well.

[Sneezy]

she was the baby and basically could do as she wished. No one could cross her.

Very interesting - so no boundaries at all, right from day one.  There are many ways to parent, but letting a child be the queen bee from a young age is not really a preferred parenting method.

I had to laugh at your description of your mom's drama cycle.  It is so typical of their way of approaching life.  I am currently experiencing "Little Mary Sunshine" with my mother (after her last dramatic blowup).  I should start keeping track of how much time elapses between when Little Mary Sunshine appears and when it all falls apart again.  Over time, it could make an interesting graph.

[moglow]

You joke, but just jot it down and take note of what happens when. Helpful hint: watch moon cycles. When I had semi regular contact with md and would still engage the idiocy, we started noticing a marked difference around the full moon. I kid you not. She'd go sideways out of the blue over the most random things and I'd check ... well lookey there. Full moon tomorrow. If not a full blown explosion, there'd be mini-performances of some kind.

My brother refers to it as the princess syndrome. It's what she knew and she liked it, demanded more of it from everyone around her. She has laughingly several times told the story about her mother starching a dress for school and ironed in a crease. Supposedly mother threw it down and stomped on it in a temper, her mother had to rewash etc - and back then? We're talking wringer washers, drying on the clothesline, plus then all that starching and ironing in the blazing heat?? That was WORK. I'd never have imagined doing that! It's just not who I am or want to be, never was. But she laughs about it.

[Tribe16]

Yeah I guess I wanted her approval, or maybe the attagirl I know she doesn't have hidden away anywhere. I KNOW this. [/size]

This is SO NORMAL to want/expect from a parent. Because it's what NORMAL PARENTS do. I'm so sorry, because that realization is one that hits over the head multiple times and still has the power to gobsmack us. It was thoughtful of you to make the effort on Thanksgiving. But at least you know at least you'll be just fine if you go another 6 months without it.

[moglow]

Yeah I guess I wanted her approval, or maybe the attagirl I know she doesn't have hidden away anywhere. I KNOW this. [/size]

This is SO NORMAL to want/expect from a parent. Because it's what NORMAL PARENTS do. I'm so sorry, because that realization is one that hits over the head multiple times and still has the power to gobsmack us. It was thoughtful of you to make the effort on Thanksgiving. But at least you know at least you'll be just fine if you go another 6 months without it.

Yep AND I do it from the comfort and safety of my own home!! Not a chance she'd show up here or demand entry - she's not seen one place I've lived since I moved to this area over 15yrs ago. And I'm less than two hours drive from her. I'm good with that. 😊

[Pepin]

Md did admit she's lonely and depressed. Well yeah, I suppose she might be. She isolated herself and discouraged even the simplest visits or phone calls years back, shows no interest in anything anyone has to say. She cut me off mid sentence several times with some weird segue back to herself, then suddenly "I need to finish up here, we'll talk later." Dismissed, just like that. That's kinda how lonely works, md - all she hears are her inner voices and none appear to be bright shining sunlight. She's full of gloom and shadows.

This sums up my late CN MIL.  Those inner voices were all the she had even until her very end.  Completely lonely and depressed of her own doing because that was the only way to get the attention she craved from her dearest son, DH.  She had discarded me years earlier when I had figured out her game and she knew it.  It was nearly impossible to have any sort of conversation with her and therefore I dropped the rope and just let DH deal with her.  DH felt that I had given up on her but it was that she wanted nothing to do with me.  For years when I would make conversation with her, I would be very specific with the topics and even with the questions I would ask her.  She knew what I was doing and often before answering, would look over to DH as if to say, do I need to answer Pepin?  DH, out of frustration, would demand that she answer me because he knew I was trying to engage her at his request.  It was pointless when she just wanted nothing to do with me.  And I believe this hurt DH very deeply that she was unaccepting of me but he would never admit it.  His mother was yet again putting him in an embarrassing situation like she had done over and over throughout her life with him in it - and this time he had no way of fixing it.  Before I entered his life it was easy for him to swoop in and fix things for his mother; later, much after my arrival, DH knew I saw what he dealt with and that it was all coming to a head that enabling his mother for as long as he did was only going to blow up in the end, and it did.

Like you, this way of living that she demanded of herself was so utterly sad.  I felt terrible sometimes thinking that she really was just taking up space and that there wasn't much purpose for her.  I guess I expected more from her as she aged - to demonstrate maturity and impart what she knew.  Turns out she really didn't know much at all because she lacked curiosity about anything around her.  Her world was focused on herself and her needs alone....cue those inner voices....my children and what I can have them do for me to keep them close and my money.  She refused to see that her children were spouses and parents and had nuclear families of their own now; that her children all had vast networks of friends and work colleagues.  She just couldn't see past her own mailbox or how other people around her were living, including her own neighbors.  Such an isolated existence...

I am happy that you have found some peace throughout this simmering drama.  I wish I could have found some peace for myself with CN MIL - but know that this situation was slightly different since I was technically an in-law and not a daughter.....which stings in a sense because when I married DH, I was kind of hoping to be a daughter.  I thought that I could get a little bit of what I didn't have growing up....and that failed again.

[moglow]

That small girl inside me still sees "mother" (any mother really) as one thing on the surface, something very different underneath. The lack of trust learned through the complete failure of that relationship numbs a person. You question everything and everyone, maintain distance and watch everything.

[Starboard Song]

That small girl inside me still sees "mother" (any mother really) as one thing on the surface, something very different underneath. The lack of trust learned through the complete failure of that relationship numbs a person. You question everything and everyone, maintain distance and watch everything.

My wife says something similar. It's so wrong! I was raised by outstanding people, so I just float along in serene confidence -- sometimes deeply unwarranted -- while y'all struggle with even with healthy relationships at times, because of what these people have done to you. Geez, it is just so wrong.

Accept my electronic hug, please.

[moglow]

I'm sorry she understands, appreciate the hugs always. I always seem to need more.

This time of year puts it all out of proportion and can be hard to manage. I see the happy families and shoppers and shrink inside. I'm already at the point if one more person asks," are you ready for Christmas???" I may blow!! No. No I'm not. I dislike the universal assumption that we all have happy loving families and will naturally spend the holidays with them. I love my family, don't get me wrong, but we haven't ever had those gatherings and I envy those who do.

So I took a mental health day today - got a pedicure, then picked up fresh gingerbread men from my fav local bakery. And visited a shelter, fell over for a sweet lovey tabby teenager. If he's still there Friday (he's on a stray hold in case someone us looking for him), he's coming home with me.😸