Is secretiveness common in NPD?

[countrygirl]

Hi,

I'm wondering how many of you have had problems with NPDs, and others, withholding information?

During the past few weeks, while trying to cope with the loss of a dear friend, I have listened repeatedly to every possible gastrointestinal symptom anoghther friend has had.  She has told me when she's had them, and has described each one and what she was doing when each struck.  I have tried to come up with any possible explanation for these symptoms.  Yesterday, she tweeted about a sleepless, "dramatic" night of the symptoms.  I asked her what meds she had taken, if any.  We had discussed meds before, too, plenty of times, with her telling me on which day she took which med.  But instead of texting me, she wanted to talk.

Well, it runs out that she had started on an oral med which was supposed to help with hair loss, and she said her doctor had told her it was powerful.He had to discuss her blood pressure med because of it.  It turns out that she had been on it for several months.  She has talked to me, many times, about her hair loss, and tried an topical solution, which didn't help at all.  So why didn't she tell me about trying the oral med?  I mean, it's not that she has to tell me everything, not at all, but if she is gong to ask me to spend hours trying to determine the cause of her gastrointestinal problems, which were bad and included horrible acid reflux for days, did she tell me about every other med she'd taken and leave out the major variable?

I told her that it had not been fair of her to withhold this information, not when she was asking me to play medical "detective," and analyze everything she'd had to eat, all of the things she'd been doing, etc., for many days, and not tell me about the med.

I have to say that she has surprised me like this before, withholding crucial information which had to do with plans we were making.  I guess this is a control issue?   

By the way, she spoke to her doctor and is going off the med.  I had also been worried about her blood pressure during this time, because she described various weird symptoms having to do with ringing and "slamming" sounds, which I thought at the time had to do with her blood pressure. Her doctor just talks to her on the phone, and will prescribe anything anyway she wants him to , and then bill her insurance co. for megabucks.   I couldn't believe he'd agreed to adjust her b.p. meds, when it had taken her forever to go back on the meds at the dosages she'd been on wither former doctor, who was a good doctor.  As you can see, I have taken her complaints seriously and have worried about her, but I don't want to continue to give so much timed worry to someone who isn't straightforward with me.  I just lost that friend who had many health issues.

[NarcKiddo]

I get selective information all the time from my uNPD mother, particularly on health issues. She also divulges different things to my sister - similar but differing in salient detail.

My mother has always been one to max up the drama for something mild. If she has a cold or headache she takes to her bed and issues updates from her sick bed such as what her temperature currently is. If it is something she considers as possibly more important she sits on it a while, these days, and then seeks advice from family and close friends, one of whom is medically qualified. She gives out selective information to all of us. It keeps the drama going. She will also time her health announcements to coincide with a time when others have things going on. The most obvious of these was when I had to have abdominal surgery earlier this year. I did not involve anyone other than my husband in the lead-up to the decision to have surgery as my mother would have been a nightmare. After I had told the family about the surgery my mother first tried to arrange to come and stay at my house immediately after the operation "to look after me". Hah. No way that was happening. She finally took "no" for an answer because she had to. Then she announced she'd had bad blood readings from the doctor and was on her way to becoming diabetic. The announcement was in March, fairly soon after her birthday. I apologised for having bought her a most unsuitable birthday present in the circumstances, as it was fancy chocolates, and asked when she had received the blood results. It had been the previous November. Now, it is obviously up to her whether and when she shares medical information, but to wait from November to March? Doing nothing about making diet changes and then having a big drama in March about necessary diet changes? Typical PD behaviour in my view. (Oh, and by the bye, she has found the necessary diet changes to be tiresome and although she is following them to some degree she has now claimed that the blood readings were wrong and subsequent readings taken for some other reason have shown her to be completely well.)

In the case you describe, the drama attaches to a time when you are grieving the loss of another friend. I do not think this is a coincidence. I'm not sure if it is a control issue so much as a narcissistic supply issue. The attention has to be on the narc. Withholding information, to reveal it at a suitably dramatic/awkward/difficult time, gives them the satisfaction of dragging your attention back onto them at a time when it is, quite properly, elsewhere.

I am so very sorry for your loss.

[moglow]

I don't think of that as secretiveness so much as selective sharing - maybe she just wants to talk and talk and talk about it, have your undivided attention in the meantime. Maybe she didn't want to hear exactly what her doctor had told her, have you agree with him instead of finding some other supposed cause for the issues. She may have wanted to appear "right" and didn't want to talk about it otherwise, that magical thinking at work. [if it were my mother she'd do that then later blast me for not knowing all the details she'd never shared in the first place.]

[Amy-Rose]

Hello again Angel!

In my opinion people are entitled to their privacy, yes, but there is a difference between being private about your life and just plain secretive. Secretiveness is a problem as it hinders us relating and starts chipping away at the trust factor. If they leave out details how can we ever make our minds up on what they tell us?

A friend I had problems with could be both secretive and very picky what she shared. She tended to share things based on if she needed you. Example: If she was going away again and needed me to take her dogs, I'd get told. If She didn't need me she'd just vanish. She seemed paranoid. Like she wanted to hyper control everything you knew. She didn't seem thriller when it came to my attention we actually shared some mutual friends, hid all her friends lists on social media and would never name any of her friends. She'd mention she was going away but wouldn't want to tell you where when you asked out of politeness or interest. You'd get answers like:
"The other side of London" - where we are nearly everywhere is the other side of london!
"it's a long way away." Yup. I've been there the weathers lovely. So I just quit asking.

She seemed to release information on her terms and when it suited her and none of it was stuff you could understand her being coy about. If all you're doing is regularly staying with friends, then what's the big secret?

I have no idea if this ex friend was NPD, BPD low grade narcissist or just someone very damaged with some screwed up patterns.

She was also very protective of her mobile phone. If she offered to show you something and you moved in to look. She'd angel the phone away until she'd found what she wanted to show you. In reverse she'd soon move in for the chance to snoop at my phone. For someone so protective over her precious life, she didn't mind intruding into mine. She'd ask questions on topics/events in my life that suited her and ignore the rest.

Different stories to. Told me she was made redundant and another friend that she resigned. Redundant was the truth in the end.

[T-dog]

Like others have said, my experience is similar in that the NPD person doesn't exactly lie but often fails to share important information. I'm not sure if it's done intentionally as a means of control, or rather that NPDs sometimes assume that you can read their minds- you know what they know so they don't feel the need to share the information with you (even when they know that you don't know). Are you confused yet? I think that is intentional, then the NPD brushes it off and gaslights you about how they definitely told you x y or z, or if they didn't then it wasn't that important, and if it was then they've just told you so it's fine now.

Reasonable people give you the information you need to begin with, when you need it, or they help to remedy the situation with further details or explanation when asked. NPDs are not good at explaining things and seem skilled at creating conflict around instructions and information, I guess when you end up having an argument about it that gives them some kind of supply, even if it feels weird and exasperating for you. At least this is what I have observed from interactions between various people (including myself) and my uNPD mother.

[countrygirl]

Wow!  After reading your replies and your stories, I see that this is an issue which is much more intricate than "simple" control.  I do think they want to keep us guessing, and if your are guessing about someone's actions and their motives, you are thinking about them.  So they become the center of attention.

In my case, I agree that my deceased friend was getting "too much" attention so my N friend timed her crisis appropriately.   By the way, when I would tell my friend who died about this N friend, she would always say, "She isn't right," or "She's not a hundred percent."   

It seems to me that we all feel off-balance in some manner when dealing with our various PDs. 

T-dog, I agree that they can enjoy arguments, because then they are the center of attention.  I had to end a friendship with one who loved to create scenes for this reason.

Hi Amy-Rose!   Yes, that friend's behavior was just so weird.  It was impossible to know where you stood with her, or even where she stood!   Much better to interact with the hog and the magpie!

Moglow, your mother sounds like mine, unfortunately. 

Narckiddo, your mother sounds like a real drama queen, and I think this friend is the same.   I agree that she didn't like my deceased friend being the center of attention.  Weird that someone could be jealous of a dead person, but I've seen, heard and read about that many times.   

In short,  you've all given me a lot of food for thought with this one!   Thank you!

[Poison Ivy]

My former father-in-law (now deceased) was very secretive about money. My ex-spouse picked up this behavior from his dad, unfortunately. Not advertising one's finances in public? Fine. Hiding money from the government and from family members? Not fine.

[countrygirl]

Hi Poison Ivy,

Sorry to hear that your ex-father-in-law and your ex-husband were secretive about money.   My father was like this.  He even kept important information from his accountant!  His accountant told me that he wouldn't let him (the accountant) look at his books, that he would only read information to the accountant!  And once my mother was elderly, she used to complain that she had no idea how my father had anything set up, and that she didn't know what she would do if he died first.  The sad part about this--in addition to the fact that he was witholding from his spouse--was that my mother worked as a bookkeeper before she married my father, and was very good with figures and with money.  Not to mention that she had helped him get and keep many customers. 

I don't think there should be financial secrets between spouses.   

[olivegirl]

My uBpd Queen/Witch mother and uNpd father are prolific liars who use the guise of "Privacy!" as a cover so that they may manipulate and scheme more efficiently.

Consequently, they are both extremely paranoid!   

This leads to their increased badmouthing of others, randomly attacking others, insistence that others are scheming against them, more lying to throw people off—it is quite draining to be in their presence. 

It finally dawned on me that lying and manipulating is not something they do.

They ARE liars and manipulators, first and foremost.  It is WHO they are. 

And they are pleased with themselves because they regard honest and authentic people contemptuously and perceive them as being weak and inferior. 

It is as if they see lying as their "secret weapon" and truly believe that they are good people who treasure their privacy.

[Cat of the Canals]

I don't think of that as secretiveness so much as selective sharing

I've definitely noticed "selective sharing" with my PDmil. She will absolutely "lie by omission" if it suits her agenda. When planning her most recent visit, my husband told her he was comfortable with a 4-day visit in early October. This was in June or July. The months ticked by, and we heard nothing from her regarding the visit. It was to the point that we wondered if she was even coming (in our dreams). Finally, with only 2 weeks to October, my husband finally asked her when exactly she was coming? She dodged the question at first. Then she offered a hazy answer, "I think it's this date through this date? Or maybe that date?" (This woman keeps time by her vacations, so there was no way she didn't know.) When we finally got a coherent answer, it turned out she'd booked 7 days. So the lack of communication and then being wishy washy about the dates was a lovely little smoke screen she threw up because she knew my husband was going to be angry she'd booked more than 4 days.

[countrygirl]

Hi Cat of the Canals,

Yes, your mother-in-law withheld information for a reason.  I think this secretiveness is very common with PDs.   

The person in my life who occasioned my initial question on this thread also withholds information about vacations!  Of course, as I write this, I realize that she withhold information about so many things that I could say that about most topics.  When she withholds it's for some manipulative reason.   

These people are exhausting!