Forgiveness - seeking practical assistance

[NarcKiddo]

I think this is a really interesting thread. Thank you for starting it moglow.

I was brought up within the Church of England but I have not looked at the topic until now since any faith I might have had is not with me right now. That said, I am familiar with Christian teachings and do not disagree with the general principles.

I'm not struggling with forgiveness as a topic at the moment and I don't know if I will. But since starting therapy I have noticed a marked difference in my feelings towards my uNPD mother. Early on, my therapist asked if I might be prepared to consider the possibility that my mother had done her best. A rubbish best, yes, nobody is denying that. She was not asking me this in a gaslight-y "she's your motherrrr" kind of way. Just pointing out something I might want to think about at some point. At the time I said my logical brain could accept that she might have done her best. My emotional brain was not prepared to entertain that thought. I needed to hold onto my anger at her because I saw it as a protection. If I was angry and unforgiving then she would not be able to wheedle her way through my defences. I have a very long way to go, but already I am finding at times that I can emotionally accept her limitations in a way that was unthinkable before. As I start to learn how to love and protect myself her power diminishes.

I don't want vengeance (I am quite happy for that to rest with the Lord, and always have been), I don't want redress, I don't want an apology. I'd really just like her out of my head; out of my conscious thoughts which will not happen until after she dies, I'm sure as I am in contact with her, but mainly out of my unconscious thoughts and my awful emotional reactions. Therapy is helping with that aspect. The posts about Jesus asking God to forgive the perps therefore speak deeply to me despite being based on a religion I no longer follow. After reading this thread I am encouraged. I think maybe I am on the way towards forgiveness.

[moglow]

Early on, my therapist asked if I might be prepared to consider the possibility that my mother had done her best. A rubbish best, yes, nobody is denying that. She was not asking me this in a gaslight-y "she's your motherrrr" kind of way. Just pointing out something I might want to think about at some point. At the time I said my logical brain could accept that she might have done her best. My emotional brain was not prepared to entertain that thought. I needed to hold onto my anger at her because I saw it as a protection. If I was angry and unforgiving then she would not be able to wheedle her way through my defences. I have a very long way to go, but already I am finding at times that I can emotionally accept her limitations in a way that was unthinkable before. As I start to learn how to love and protect myself her power diminishes.

This is familiar to me - my gripe with "that line of thinking" was that yes, she may very well have done her best, gave it what she had to give. That said, as the parent, the mother, she took on obligations and failed miserably in all but the most basic of those responsibilities. We survived. However "best" she may have presented it was superficial and very limited, this woman raised four children. Angrily. Resentfully. Grudgingly. My resentment as it were, is that she had choices and fairly consistently made poor ones. She tried to erase her own children, and truth be told she still does. We were way behind when it came to relationships, trust, love, even basic kindness and compassion. She didn't have it to give so we never really learned those things at home and were left floundering for many years. We were left instead to find our own way in many ways. I do resent that, even while I know that had we been coddled we wouldn't be who we are.

Like you, being angry and resentful protects [protected] me too, made me keep safe distance from her until I was more stable. I know on the most basic level now just how limited she truly is and I accommodate for my own well being. I still don't want to hear anyone excuse her, that's rubbing salt in an old wound for me because I know all that. I made different choices and in some ways resent that she never even tried to change things for herself and thereby for her family. Mother gave up, walked away, shrugged it all off as nothing. THAT is hard for me to swallow, from my own mother.

[Adria]

Moglow,

I went through what you are going through with my father.  Man, one of the most difficult things I've ever encountered in this life because he nearly destroyed me in every area of my life.  I always found forgiveness to come easy where others were concerned, but NOT my father. However, I knew it was imperative to find a way to forgive him to move on and be happy and healthy in my life. I could no longer afford to be controlled by the thoughts of what he did to me. Somehow it had to be easier to forgive than to live with the tapes playing over and over in my mind of the things he did. I felt like I was drowning. I needed to find a way to release him to release myself.

Unfortunately, ministers stand in their pulpits a lot of times and flippantly make us feel like we are bad people by saying, "Just forgive."  It's easy to forgive someone who did some minor trespass like stole your lunch at school. But, someone who has spent a lifetime trampling on you and deliberately hurting you takes it to another level.  Not nearly as easy.

I have learned that forgiveness is more an act of will than a state of mind. It seemed impossible to forgive him in my mind. I couldn't seem to do it. But, I heard from a minister that even though you want to forgive and it doesn't seem to be happening, you must start praying for that person. Simple kind prayers, and that brings forth compassion in your mind. Even though it takes effort and is hard to do for someone who hurt us so deeply, it's difficult to pray for someone and be angry and resentful towards them at the same time.   The Bible reminds us to bless those who curse us.  When we pray for someone it shifts our mind and emotions.  As we do, it becomes easier, and the angst seems to slip a little more into the background each time. 

The next thing that has helped me was to say their name out loud and say "I forgive my mother, father, etc."  Even though you don't feel it, say it out loud several times a day until it begins to become reality. When you speak this out loud, your brain hears the message and that message will become stronger. More or less speak it into existence even though the feelings aren't there.  It is an act of obedience.  Eventually the message will sink into your mind.  It is very much a long drawn out process.

The other thing is, is don't confuse forgiveness with forgetting and  reconciliation.  Chances are, we will never get an apology from these people.  I think that is what we are always longing for so we can forgive them.  Most likely it will never happen and a lot of times reconciliation isn't possible.  We can forgive, but we should never forget.  We need to remember so we stay vigilant and  protect ourselves.

These formulas worked for me after years and years of not being able to get past and forgive my father because the things he did were grievous.  I've told a couple friends in our situations these applications and they couldn't believe how well it worked for them.  Each said it took time, but in the end they got the relief they were looking for, and came to a place of peace.

Be patient with yourself and continue to do these things until your feelings match your acts of will.  I promise, you will get there.  We may never fully get over what they did to us.  Another minister said to me, "You may never totally get over it, some days will be better than others, and sometimes we can get triggered.  Expect that, so you don't get caught off guard.  Understand the next day will be better. That is  part of the human condition. However, I have come to a place of forgiveness and peace. It takes some work, but it is well worth the journey.  Forgiveness does not excuse their behavior, rather it releases the burden from us so we can live a happy, healthy, productive life.  It sounds like it's time for you to let go and let God keep score. Take care.  I wish you the best. Hugs, Adria

[moglow]

The next thing that has helped me was to say their name out loud and say "I forgive my mother, father, etc."  Even though you don't feel it, say it out loud several times a day until it begins to become reality. When you speak this out loud, your brain hears the message and that message will become stronger. More or less speak it into existence even though the feelings aren't there.  It is an act of obedience.  Eventually the message will sink into your mind. 

Thank you, Adria! I very much believe in speaking things into existence - I see it happen around me every day in all kinds of circumstances, so this speaks to me. Jolie40 has recently recommended the movie Unsinkable and I finally gathered my brain to watch [most of] it. One of the forgiveness exercises someone used was very similar to what you suggest here. Like a pro/con list, on one side she wrote  "you did/said xyz..." in the other column she wrote specifically "I can forgive you." It's a deliberate intentional facing what happened, calling it what it is, and reaffirming I can forgive you for this. I can see where I'd need to do that over and over, as things come up or are triggered at random.

I'm finding peace in the severely limited contact with md, where I make holiday calls only. I feel for her, she has to be struggling with basic daily chores and possibly self care. But to insert myself where she's made it so clear I'm not wanted? Set aside time for weekly visits or some such? Her pride won't let her ask for help, and I'm not one to push in. Plus, honestly, I have no desire to be around her at all. It sounds selfish even in my own head, refusing to go there, but I just don't see the good for either of us in that situation.

[1footouttadefog]

As a Christian my idea of what the Bible calls forgiveness is that nothing is owed.  The Bill or debt has been settled. 

If we are talking about something simple like a business transaction it might look like you not expecting anything more from a landscaper who got injured and he cannot finish his seasonal contract with you.  You forgive him.  It's over, forgiven.  The transactions is complete with no further expectations. 

When I apply this to messier situations it becomes easier to forgive.  It narrows what forgiveness is into a doable thing for me.

I still have memories and feelings/emotions toward a person but consider the business between us complete.  I need no "closure" because my choice to close the books and have no further expectations is the closure. 

Where this simplification gets difficult is when you still need to interact with someone.  I think the trick for me there is to sub compartmentalize things.  I forgive and have no further expectations in a given area.  But close the books so as to not expose myself to furtyer abuse. 

If you find it impossible to adjust a relationship so far t is safe and that forgiveness works toward it being healthy, ie if there is constant reference and added abuses, then that needs to inform a decision as to whether to stay in or discontinue that relationship.

For me forgiveness never means staying and taking abuse by a non repentant person. 

[moglow]

1foot, thank you! It helps so much to have people boil it down to the bones, put it in easier terms regardless of the messy emotional stuff. It really is that uncomplicated when I get right down to it. I'm the one who thought and read so much into what I was "supposed to" do or be. Mother demanded all while giving little, and it never made sense.

Now I see she really didn't have it in her but also saw as her due that everyone center to her. It's telling that she has no long time or lifetime friends. Zero. Never did that I remember. And didn't see the need with her own family either. Sad.

I've deeply minimized contact with mother now, havent seen her in a few years and any conversation is limited and sporadic at best. I'm finally okay with that - it's so much better than me sitting there while she spewed venom and negativity all over me. Accepting that's who SHE is and what she chose, not my stuff? Immeasurable relief and peace, and I really wish I'd hit this point decades ago.

As y'all have pointed out, I think this is what forgiveness really is.

[moglow]

Bump. Some threads bear revisiting and this is sure one of them for me.

I find myself in need of comfort and came back to this thread where the words of fellow travelers wrapped around me like a soft blanket. Bless those who reached back and those who may have gained from simply reading here along with me.

[SonofThunder]

MoGlow, Im sending smoke-signals of prayerful thought into the Heavens on your behalf, as forgiveness is a real complexity even without a PD in the mix. 

Add to that a PD who seems to instinctively hurt us and others, yet can control themselves around their outer relationship circles and so the thought of premeditated abuse enters the mind, which is such evilness. 

Prayers for peace for you my Out of the FOG friend.

SoT

[Call Me Cordelia]

Yes, thank you, Mo. Great pick for Holy Week.