In the Dragon's Den

[InTheDragonsDen]

Thanks Escapingman, your ex's final reaction matches my wifes current state. My wife looks totally out of sorts.
Things here went rapidly downhill when I started to use the "no" word. Kaboom.

My wife wants to things to return to her being able to triangulate with others while having me at home happy in servitude to her. Now, she knows there is a cost for having both (she knows I walk if she starts to stray).

THank you so much, your past with your ex mirrors my present day with my wife. They can't change. They do not want to change. They are not capable of change. Mine is addicted to attention. She had a little boost on Valentine's day posting her pics but I was surprised how quickly afterwards she became depressed again, and angry (silent anger).

[InTheDragonsDen]

Two days away on a business trip.
First day rumination about wanting a functional relationship with my wife. People watching. Sitting on a park bench and walking in the park. Re-connecting with my friends for a couple of hours.
Second day. No rumination.
Third day: Two days away and no feelings of anxiety, no light thrumming of the chest, no stomach pain. 1 km away from the house, the low intensity anxiety starts.
Back in the dragons den. Within 5 minutes of connecting with the wife she has 4 double speak put downs.
Today: Stomach pains, low grade chest thrumming sensation. Welcome home. Today's reminder from her. Everything is a transaction to her. If she does "A" she is expecting "B".

Path forward: Don't look too far down the road. Get to step A first. Obtain a job, obtain a steady income and ensure it is all secure from her reach then start planning the next step.

[InTheDragonsDen]

She raged when she found out I met my friends for a couple hours. First time I saw them in three years.

[escapingman]

I got to keep a lot of my friendships secret, not because we did anything we shouldn't but because she would find a reason to rage. I have a very good female friend, we have been friends since we were 16 or so. When I had moved to another town, she moved there as well and whilst she was searching for her own place she stayed at mine. We even shared bed, nothing romantic or sexual, we were just friends. After STBX met her she decided that this friend had a crush on me and I was not allowed to see her. I kept meeting up with her when in her town, just never told STBX, we did nothing wrong and I had no energy for rage for no reason. I haven't seen this friend for many years as we live in different countries, but this was one of the earlier red flags that STBX tried to stop this friendship. She also tried to stop me from keeping in touch with my oldest childhood friend that I I have been friends with since I was 6 and lived 2 streets away from me. However, there was one friend I made through work that came to stay at ours once. She LOVED him and wanted him to come again, do I need to say he had a Porsche and parked it outside our house.....

I can so relate to your trip away. I used to go on regular work trips, when I got in to the taxi to the train station or airport it was like a massive weight fell off me. Then on the way back the taxi ride back to the house was just filled with anxiety about what was to happen. Towards the end, when I had been out in the car, I always had to drive around the block and some side roads to delay going back. There is a lot more to write about this, but I don't want to hi jack your thread but I might share more somewhere someday.

Keep strong ITDD, we got your back! We know exactly what you talk about. You are amongst friends!

[InTheDragonsDen]

The two days away made be realize how much better I physically feel being out of the house.
My plan is firm: Job, 1 or 2 months work, then plan the escape.
Have read over and over and over again when it is time to leave for the final time, no discussions, they will rage, make sure they are not home, they will rage.
Nothing to be gained except a world of pain and life long memories.
Slip out the back Jack!!!

[square]

You got it. Any confrontation will weaken you. Just split.

[InTheDragonsDen]

Have heard too many horror stories about others who have hoped for a normal split and closure.

I even tried the "trying to work out our issues" but I stepped very very slowly and non confrontational. Immediate reaction from her hostility, didn't want to discuss anything and she said "just tell me what you want". At that point I gracefully took the off ramp from that topic and haven't even thought about trying again.

[InTheDragonsDen]

Looks like the odds of me going back to work in late March are rising. Lots of stuff going on to prepare for a work visa, etc. Keeping my wife in the loop. Last week and the week upcoming are going to be busy obtaining the required documents / legalization / notarization.

AND............................

All the negative words and behaviors have stopped. She is happy. Lots of snuggling during the day. Morning and bedtime routines are restored. Suddenly I am not being ignored. Suddenly she is being nice.

Which tells me they do make a conscience choice on how to treat people. They can be nice the year round IF they wanted to. They realize their words and actions hurt people. They are just adults who have never matured past that of a child.

That is exactly who I picture my wife as, an adult who has the emotional level of a child. Selfish. Empathy is something not jet mastered. Knows right from wrong but doesnt care. Impulsive. Wants there needs met now.

[InTheDragonsDen]

For the first time in years my partner was "into me" last night. She was caring, attentive and everything a husband could possibly hope for.

After she asked "how much do you love me?", "do you love me with all your heart?", "do you love me completely?", "you love only me until you die?", and several more. Knew this was coming before she asked all the questions.

What I was left with was sadness. Sadness that she can not live a normal life. Sadness that her life and how she responds to life is predictable, self centered and unable to care for anyone but herself. She is unchanging and unable to change. Sadness because I see the emptiness inside her. Hear her words of hurt when her "friends" do not place her as their best friend. Her friends miss her but she feels slighted when she feels that she isn't their best friend. When she sees her friends happy without her it hurts her inside. Such a basic understanding is beyond her.

A life spent being hyper vigilant and attacking anybody viewed as a threat, moods up and down, anxiety, slight paranoia, sadness and a whole lot of anger, contempt and loneliness and obliterating anyone that really cares about her. 

Yes, I know her back story. Know that she had a totally chaotic childhood.

Today I will be away again from the house on a 1 day business trip. Tonight, I will sit in a lovely park in the middle of a huge city. Will sit and read a book and look up every once in awhile and watch the afternoon turn to evening and evening turn to night and I will appreciate life to the fullest I am capable. Life is precious. It goes so quickly. My partner of 9 years showed little to none traits for 6 years. Yes there were small red flags but due to us living a rather exciting 6 years of building a house together and multiple trips to other countries it fueled her enough to keep her "busy". Then I reached a point where I thought, hey, we have done it all, or almost all, and it is time to just sit back and enjoy life that our paths really diverged as she could not handle the same - same of everyday life. She needed more. She needed the attention.

She is struggling now with not getting enough attention. Her senior years I can not imagine how she will cope. If she is lonely now surrounded by her family what will happen when most have passed beyond?

Yet, I hope the best for her, that one day she may have a grain of self-awareness, that she learns how to live with norms without controlling them.

[InTheDragonsDen]

Last night in bed my wife was looking through her Facebook. She showed me a video of her cousin dancing at a party the night before. My wife said "does it look like she is not having any fun?". Then my wife explained that her cousin tried to get her to go to the dance and told my wife "if you not come I will not have any fun".
My wife gets very hurt inside when others are at parties / dances that she is not at and her friends / cousin are enjoying themselves but she is not there. Explained that her cousin said that she would not have any fun if she was not there to try her hardest to get her to go and that yes, her cousin would have fun but she would enjoy it much more if my wife was there with her. (This is the second time I tried to explain this concept).
Was feeling sad for my wife as I tried to explain this to her, now the second time. She was hurt and we were talking very relaxed as I wanted her to understand. No emotions. Soft, slow talking. Lightly touched her arms. Tried everything so she had every chance to hear the words.

Such simple concept's are beyond her understanding. She only can think on how it effects her. Her cousin is the only female friend she has and my wife is definately having multiple issues with her cousin. Not just this.

[InTheDragonsDen]

This morning again I was ignored totally. Add in a few sarcastic remarks sprinkled with contempt. She went out and called me and in the middle of me replying to her she just hung up. (She she meant to hang up, call was not disconnected).

By the end of the month I should hopefully be at work. I hope.

Mornings like this, even when I know it is the norm, does effect a person.

Listened to Dr. Ramani and she said the only chance of them changing is if they hit rock bottom and often that is not enough. Have tried my best. I am certainly not perfect but I did try my best and I do want the best for her, but I also want to enjoy life and in this relationship it is not possible. The daily stress with her around and the brief moments I get to enjoy quiet in the house is rare. I am tired.

[InTheDragonsDen]

There is no bond remaining. I see the manipulations as they are happening and getting really good at anticipating where her "hints" are leading to.
She was a real queen this morning.
Trying to push my buttons.
Hinting she is going out today to party with strangers. (I actually am happy for the time alone in the house)

Dream of my future. Being free from manipulation.

Days like this would be a joy to walk out.

[InTheDragonsDen]

Last few days I am getting very strong vibs that she views me with utter contempt and is not hiding at then she switches to the polar opposite where she is giving me the vib she wants me to stay (for the money earning potential) and back and forth, back and forth.

This could be her way of trying to get me to "comply" or it could be her internals going back and forth.

What ever it is I find myself having to really work at not "acting out" and maybe that is also what she is after. To show others that I am unhinged.

If others have experienced this I would appreciate your views on to what is going on and why.

Thanks.

[escapingman]

In the end before the split was definite STBX tried to make me stay by applying pressure in a desperate way. She could take on all roles in the drama triangle within 10 minutes, she first came screaming in my face, to collapse in tears on the floor just to then bring me a coffee and try to give me a hug.

Rinse repeat.

It's an exhausting way to live, both for us non's and the PD themselves. Please try to find a way out of this sooner than later both for yours and hers sake. You have decided to end it, the longer you keep it going to more worn down you will get.

[InTheDragonsDen]

thanks escapingman, today would have been a good day to head for the door. Money, or lack there of is the hold back. I really need a couple weeks at work to break free. Out of work for 3.5 years now. My line of work was hit hard by covid and the slow down in the world economy, then the war in Ukraine. Still half the people I worked with at the last job are still looking for work.

[InTheDragonsDen]

Escapingman, why do they bounce back and forth??? I do not understand this.

[escapingman]

I think that they first try to get you to comply using one of the tactics, if that fails they switch, and it that also fails they switch again. Then they keep trying until you either comply or they give up (for a moment).

[hhaw]

PDs struggling to regain control over their spouse/stbx tend to act like spinning allegators, IME.

They spin this way, then spin hard the other direction, then back again while hoping to gain your compliance once again, often escalating in unimaginable ways.

Expect her to wake you up and disturb your sleep so you're emotionally and physically breaking down while she gains in strength.

Expect her to make every promise you ever neeeeeded her to make in the past...... and she'll have zero intention to honor a single one.

Expect her to rage then play the victim while blaming accusing you of doing what she's doing.

Expect her to use sex and threaten to tell friends and family or call the police to make false allegations
to
get
you
back
under
control.

You will be well served by shifting into observer mode and becoming curious about everything
INSTEAD of judging anything good or bad.  Just let everything be what it is, document like crazy, prepare to defend yourself should she accuse you of domestic abuse..... prepare to show a court what it is you're dealing with.

Keeping a calendar with notes and details is good.

Make your cherished possessions safe, bc she'll destroy, take, hide or threaten to harm them, IME. 

She'll tell you everything you DESERVE to hear...... and you can go through this with detachment, curiosity while doing what you can then putting this story on the shelf while turning to the joy available to you
OR with fear and worry worry worrying coping strateg that might be a habit that brought you to this place.

You have choices and choosing to suffer less, act more and focus on self care, instead of the PD and her behaviors..... is a choice as is documenting EVERYTHING happening so you're in good position to PROVE your case from the get go and NOT get labeled an abuser or just as crazy as the PD.

Curating your proof and facts will be important when you craft your divorce petition.  If I could go back, I'd NEVER list ANYTHING I couldn't prove..... ever.  It made me appear as unstable or MORE unstable than my ASPD N stbx, which did not work for me, let me tell you.

You want to put together a case you can prove easily, with good evidence and you'll do well to STOP caretaking the PD, enabling her and trying to make things easier on her, bc she's going to twist you and use your kindness to crush you, if she can, IME.

Putting together a good plan, with sane helpful supporters, then following that plan NO MATTER WHAT THE PD promises or does is solid advice you're welcome to take or not.

Just say'in.....
if you hestitate, you'll likely donate your credibility, any resources you guys share, your sanity and your physical welbeing..... that means doing ANYTHING the PD begs or demands you do will likely weaken YOUR CASE, strengthen hers while expanding your case by time, expens and trauma times or more, IME.

Most of us learn the hard way, unfortunately, Dragon,bc most of us ended up with  PDs bc of our people pleaasing habits, co dependence, enabling and an aversion to conflict that drives our choices without our understanding.

I guess I'm trying to say.....
if you intend to behave the way you always have, expect more of what you're getting.

Changing up what you're getting will require a HUGE upheaval in your comfort level.......
it will require you learn to sit with discomfor and DO NOTHING while you're upset or while your stbx is emotionally tormenting you.....and internpersonal terrorism is something she's GOOD at, while you're compassionate and kind.

Think about that.  Think about sending very succinct messages to the court once you file, bc once you seem to hem or haw.... your rights can go right down the toilet, along with  your credibility and ability to be heard and taken seriously.

NO contact, once you file, is better than staying in contact.  YOu'll begin to feel like your old self again and you need to be on your side, Dragon.  Have compassion for yourself and a game plan...... distance from the stbx is your very best friend, IME.

I wish you the best possible outcome.

[InTheDragonsDen]

Hi hhaw,

Thank you so much.

I always keep my phone near me. Have recorded her rages, threats and breaking household items.

Think I am okay if I do not cause a problem in the community. Her public image is probably the most important thing to her. Basically the rural area we live in is full of her second, third, fourth, etc cousins and relatives. They could and should rename the town using their family name.

She will do the smear campaign to her family and her friends. I can live with that as I have no attachments to anyone. I am well known and liked in the community but at a very distant level. Add in I have no family remaining except for some distant relatives I have not seen or heard from in decades, assuming they are even still alive. Luckily we are in a remote area and none of my "pre relationship" friends have ever met her or talked to her. We have no children shared. I can and will walk into the dark night within the next 2-3 months. She also knows my last marriage I shredded my ex's lies at the divorce proceedings.

However, I do believe she will try a "hoover' later. As she said to me about her ex "I did everything I could to get him back and then" And then she tore her ex to pieces and chased him out on her terms. She took him away from a happy relationship and destroyed his life, at least for awhile. I will go no contact and close all my limited social media. I rarely use anyhow.

Took the photo and fingerprint access to my phone off long ago. Closed my email on the phone as an added safety. Turned off notifications.

There is no bond remaining but I have to walk away when she picks at me. I am not going to look like the crazy one. Asked her to go on a small local vacation, as I like the nature spot and it would be so relaxing going for solo walks in the forest. She told me go by myself. Nope. Not going to let her spin that one. I can wait a few months.
On the side of caution and how what I do or say would look to others. I can wait.

[InTheDragonsDen]

24 hours plus of being with her pre-devalue style. Keeping her informed as to the progress for me going back to work. She has completely laid of the crap she flings at me WHICH is another indication they know what they do to us is hurtful and done on purpose with malice towards us.

Music in the community. Big party day. She dressed up and headed out the door. A little bit of freedom.

But it also reminded me of all the times we went to dances, bars, private parties, etc and the only time she never went "hunting" was when a female friend she needs was tagging along. She always says I am taking my cousin or other female person as if that is enough to stop her. She flirts in front of me but thankfully, never ever ever again.

Hope to be at work before the end of the month. Then 4-6 weeks on the road. After work in my room, books, iphone games and most of all quiet.