I've brought up the possibility of leaving her, and now she's being good. Help!

[IsleOfSong]

After a terrible holiday season in which my wife decided to go silent on me for five days (along with her usual frequent verbal and emotional skirmishes with our kids), my wife is being much better to all of us — for now, at least. I have been fairly Out of the FOG for a long time now, but I still find myself struggling to follow through on my plans to leave her, particularly with the intermittent reinforcement of a "good" period.

What's sparked the better behavior is me uncharacteristically calling her out openly and overtly. She had come to me shortly before New Year's Eve, after not talking to me for several days, to ask what we wanted to do for the big night. "Why would I want to make plans with you when you haven't talked to me for nearly a week?" I calmly shot back, and off we went into a discussion of her antics that, interestingly, was far less uncomfortable for me to get into than it's been in the past. I'm getting much better at holding her accountable and not letting her off the hook when she tries to wriggle away with excuses such as her health, her stress, the kids' behavior making her act that way, and so on. "Don't change the subject," I would say, "the subject is your bad behavior. No excuses."

At one point, she asked me, "So what do you wanna do, leave?" And I replied without hesitation "I'm thinking about it!" That got her attention. Since then, she's been wife of the year, more or less. She did bring up the possibility of the two of us going away for a night, and again I resisted, saying "Our last trip went so badly, I'm not jumping at the chance to go away with you again." "But I've been better!" she replied, shocked that a couple days of sunshine haven't erased all the storminess.

I'm the type of person who is motivated to act by incidents of her poor behavior — I don't envision myself ever taking the initiative to sit with her in a calm period to tell her I want to separate from her. When she is so accommodating, as she's being now, it messes with my momentum. So am I a victim of getting what I asked for?  Or am I still asking for the wrong thing — calm togetherness vs. a separation? I know I'll get there, but I'm getting impatient with myself.

[notrightinthehead]

Enjoy it while it lasts. It's lovely to have a period of calm. Don't forget what brought you to this point and continue with the Toolbox. You have changed. You have grown. You act more assertively. If your wife really suffers with a PD, she won't be able to keep it up for a long period of time, like a year. So continue on your healing journey and enjoy the sunshine while it lasts.

[lkdrymom]

She is manipulating you.  If she is nice for a few weeks all is good, that erases years of bad behavior. At least in her mind.  Now you know she can be nice but chooses not to.  Do you want to spend the rest of the years you have dealing with this? Go find peace in your life.

[hhaw]

My experience with this is....the PD is good till you stop acting like you're going to leave. 

Once you go back to feeling better, the PD will punish you for making her pretend to be nice.  She'll likely lash out worse than befire, ime.

[moglow]

"Being good" might need a bit of clarification. Look at the right now, and also how you got where you are with all of this. I'd almost bet you've seen this before, some level of capitulation when she realizes you may have hit a wall in your mind and she might need to stabilize. That intermittent reinforcement is a thing, ya know. It's what's kept many of us in relationships that wear us down and beat us up. Few people are all good or all bad, and PD individuals are no exception. Sometimes we all have to take a step back and look at the big picture. Yes, she's "being good" now - can or will she consistently work at improving and rebuilding your relationship and your family? Or is everyone walking on eggshells wondering what'll set her off next?

Big picture, Isle. Think of what you want for yourself and your family as a whole, and what's actually available. Nothing major will change overnight, it takes time. Is she willing to commit to changing that together? Are you, at this point?

[IsleOfSong]

Now you know she can be nice but chooses not to.

That's a great point. Oof.

Once you go back to feeling better, the PD will punish you for making her pretend to be nice.

I can totally see this happening. In fact, I've lived this for 20+ years, on and off.

Big picture, Isle. Think of what you want for yourself and your family as a whole, and what's actually available. Nothing major will change overnight, it takes time. Is she willing to commit to changing that together? Are you, at this point?

Not particularly. "I don't know why I'm the way I am," is how she *almost* referenced that there's something wrong with her, and she only did that after I called her out for her lousy behavior (yet again) just before New Year's. Since then, her behavior has been only good, but she's also not pursuing therapy, which I believe is the key to any long-lasting insight, growth, and change. Over the years, she's never committed to therapy for more than a few sessions, and then it's back to the crap. And I am not interested in riding the emotional rollercoaster with her for the rest of my days.

Right now, I am working to overcome my lifelong fear of ever being the "bad guy" and hurting others' feelings, which I'd be doing in a big way by ending the marriage. Knowing that she's likely to hate me for leaving her has been paralyzing, especially at a time when she's choosing to be nice to me. But something's gotta give.

[Preamble]

IsleofSong I am sorry you are going through this.  One question that comes to my mind is, if you leave, will she "get" the kids?  They say all parental alienators are either NPD or BPD.   This happened to me when my ex left.  I haven't seen my kids for many many years, and no, I am not the father.
For me, temporary "good" behaviour is irrelevant in this light.   The courts are deaf and blind, and that is being generous.

[IsleOfSong]

IsleofSong I am sorry you are going through this.  One question that comes to my mind is, if you leave, will she "get" the kids?  They say all parental alienators are either NPD or BPD.   This happened to me when my ex left.  I haven't seen my kids for many many years, and no, I am not the father.
For me, temporary "good" behaviour is irrelevant in this light.   The courts are deaf and blind, and that is being generous.

Well, our daughter is now 19 and living during the school year at her university (just a few miles away). Our son turns 16 this summer and is much closer to me, as he has been his mom's scapegoat child for far too long. If/when my wife and I do split up, the default in our jurisdiction is 50/50 time with each parent, but my guess is he'd still want to spend more time with me (and she'd have a hard time stopping him).

In addition to having fears about being the "bad guy" to my wife, I also have that same fear to an extent with our daughter, who has learned to roll with it when it comes to her mom's mood swings and nasty comments, and often gets upset when I object to that bad behavior. But my relationship with my daughter is close, loving, and respectful, and at the end of the day I think she'll be OK with me leaving, apart from the discomfort it may bring.

[Preamble]

I have read your reply through twice IsleofSong.  I don't want to hurt your feelings  but there is nothing reassuring to me there, I mean you do not sound different in any way  from other parents I have talked to who have experienced this.  If I had the choice, I would have stayed until my last child left home because it's been incredibly destructive to their mental health and to their relationships. I hope you will be able to find out a bit more about it and I wish you well.

[escapingman]

I have read your reply through twice IsleofSong.  I don't want to hurt your feelings  but there is nothing reassuring to me there, I mean you do not sound different in any way  from other parents I have talked to who have experienced this.  If I had the choice, I would have stayed until my last child left home because it's been incredibly destructive to their mental health and to their relationships. I hope you will be able to find out a bit more about it and I wish you well.

Preamble, this is not a black and white answer but I disagree. I handed my uNPDstbx the divorce papers about a year ago, this is the best thing I have done in my life. However she has succeeded with her parental alienation with her golden child and I have not seen her since last spring. She tried the same dirty tricks with her scapegoat and it failed royally, it ended up with her aligning with me and after some failed tries to reconnect now refuse to see STBX. The very sad thing is how the system is not fit for purpose and the involved social worker is now going all out to reinstate contact between the scapegoat and the abuser and is not interested in me having contact with the golden child. BUT, this alienation was going on way before the divorce and I was already at a loss with the golden child. This last year has been hell after filing for divorce, but still, my life now is hundred times better as I have some kind of peace at least.

Isleofsong, it sounds to me like she will not succeed with PA with your son. Your daughter is already living at uni and is an adult, it might be a rocky road with her if she is the golden child, but hopefully she can see what is going on. Good luck!

[InTheDragonsDen]

Hi, Isle of Song, you need take care of yourself so you can take care of your children.

You wife on the other hand uses everyone for her needs. She will manipulate those around her and there is no way to discern why her behavior has improved. On one end she could be worried about the loss of what you bring her or on the other end she may be planning a way to take an advantage of what you have told her. The bottom line is what she does will benefit her only. I am worried she may blindside you with one of her manipulations.
Your focus needs to be on you first. Get yourself in your happy place.

[IsleOfSong]

Thanks, EM and DragonsDen.

Interestingly, today she has done something she's never done before — given a "Like" to a Facebook post I made this morning about a creative project I've been doing since 2017 and that she's never willingly asked me any questions about. Trust me, folks, I'm not naive enough to think that "she's changed," however. In fact, I keep thinking about what lkdrymom said earlier in this thread: "Now you know she can be nice but chooses not to." It's really bothering me that she could have been kinder and more supportive to me (and the kids) for years but simply chose not to, other than intermittent positive reinforcement to keep me in the relationship. Far too often, she's instead opted for controlling behaviors such as anger, cutting comments, catastrophizing, diminishing our choices, silent treatments, and the like.

[square]

Right, and frankly this is just more controlling behavior. It's not that she's being kind, just trying yo control you with behavior that resembles care and interest.

[InTheDragonsDen]

Right, and frankly this is just more controlling behavior. It's not that she's being kind, just trying yo control you with behavior that resembles care and interest.

Exactly.

What ever she is doing it is for her best interests and not yours.

The silent treatment is abuse.

[IsleOfSong]

Temporary good behavior, consistent bad behavior.... it's so disappointing when you realize that it's all about control.

I am coming to terms with the notion that it's the overall pattern of behavior in the big picture, as moglow pointed out, that is the real indicator of a person's general mind-set.

[hhaw]

Your PD strives to be good enough, long enough, to get away with doing anything to you and the children.

Perhaps that time has passed.

[IsleOfSong]

Going on over a month of downright decent behavior from my wife... oh, the cognitive dissonance! 

[escapingman]

Going on over a month of downright decent behavior from my wife... oh, the cognitive dissonance! 

As soon as she think she has got you to ditch your plans on leaving her she will change back to normal behaviour. Enjoy your peace whilst it last.

[IsleOfSong]

Thanks, EM! So to end the cognitive dissonance, I should stop acting like I want to leave, wait for her to recalibrate back to her true self, and THEN leave when the abuse resumes.

I suppose that makes as much sense as anything in a PD-infused environment! 

[square]

IoS, what is your current mode of relating to your wife? Gray rock, medium chill, something else?

If you're in GR, sure, go to MC if you like. But keep your heart.