I am sinking

[escapingman]

Square, it was actually quite frightening to read as I can relate so much. I have like you become even more isolated, I spend all time possible watching videos and overthink what to do. I play out all scenarios in my mind, but I don't action on them as I can't control the logic of the script. I had to withdraw from the court case as I saw no possible chance of winning with the current judge and social worker, why should I plunge money into a system that is only built for extracting money? I can see the logic in having to completely fall apart to rebuild, but I never allow myself to fall apart so this won't happen. I spent so much time in the relationship with STBX to escape the reality, I am now stuck in still escaping it. I would need someone who turned up here and pulled me up by my bootstraps and forced me to take action, but I have no support system so no one will do that - I will have to find it in myself to do it. I can't hide from the fact and I have to do it, but I am used to it. I am often thrown in to situations I really don't like with work, asked to do something I am not comfortable with, I then sit in a freeze kind of state just staring at the tasks not being able to start, but then when it becomes critical and I either have to surrender or just get them done I always find some energy and get them done, often I even enjoyed it in the end.

As an INTP I don't think the conventional advice really works for how to heal. I am easy distracted and also tries to find the logic in what to do. I struggle to feel emotional at times when people expect me to break down in tears because I haven't seen GC for so long, I instead now the exact reason and try to find the magic keyword to get her back. I know that crying for her won't help me, but I have cried and it felt good, but it's rare that I allow myself to cry. I also find it very difficult of how to talk to other people of my situation, as I know they won't understand and then I have to manage them in how much I tell. I think I got a massive blow as I opened up to one new friend and then I got told she could not talk anymore. I am not sure I can open up again and risk being left vulnerable and with no support. Same with the therapist I had, I felt she didn't really understand me and kept saying she was sorry for my situation and how I must feel when I didn't feel that way. I don't think I trust a therapist to know how to heal myself more than I do myself.

I don't want to be a victim, I don't want anyone to think of me as a victim, I just want to move on.

[escapingman]

Square, it's called procrastination and it's what we INTP do all the time. I found a good article of how to overcome it, not sure it's as easy as that but I get it. We need to get our act together and do what we need to do. I can see I am procrastinating right now with the house, I have got it into my thinking that I need the house to be 100% perfect before having any viewings, but with this mindset there will be no viewings because I will never have the house 100% perfect.


https://www.truity.com/blog/how-intps-can-overcome-procrastination-good

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Ha, yes, the procrastination. If there is a deadline, I will meet it - just. For things with no external deadline, it can be hard. And then, yes, we end up in this freeze state for that reason sometimes.

Interesting that you mentioned needing someone to push you. I crave that in my life in general, I don't need much, just the gentlest nudge. But I'm totally on my own in that, like you.

I have been told "you're overthinking it" and such, and maybe I'm wrong but I don't agree. I've made a lot of progress thinking, and made a lot of changes to myself based on it. I've got your back on that.

[escapingman]

Ha, yes, the procrastination. If there is a deadline, I will meet it - just. For things with no external deadline, it can be hard. And then, yes, we end up in this freeze state for that reason sometimes.

Oh yes, always meet the external deadlines but as you say just. If I have a workshop with a customer on a Friday afternoon and I have all week to prepare, I don't start preparations until Friday 10am and then do 8 hours work in 2 hours and wing the meeting. I would get more and more anxious about the meeting all week until I finally start the prep work. I know not to do it but just can't help myself. Today I got feeling and cleared all the boxes in the kitchen in 30 minutes before a meeting, the boxes has been there staring at me all weekend! I suppose this is also one of the reasons it took so long to get the divorce started, I kept delaying it and could not get anything done without a lawyer basically doing it all for me.

[square]

Saaaaaaame with the work deadlines and such. And damn, I always knew better - but anyway, would get it done well nevertheless.

I have been procrastinating dealing with a marital issue for, oh, a year. There is an external deadline. Sigh.

Maybe next week.

[escapingman]

I am just about to collapse, at least now I know what it is. I am desperately clearing the house, but I am not good at it and I don't know where to put stuff so it takes time. But as soon as I have cleared a room DD makes a mess of it, I am taking one step forward and then one back and have to redo the same every day. She just doesn't get it, I had washed the beddings in the guest room ready for the room to look nice, DD decides she is moving out of her room and into the guest room and goes straight to bed with makeup on. Oh the joy. I am going to just have the house in a far from perfect state during viewings, if not there will not be any viewings at all.

[NarcKiddo]

You're moving house? Do you suppose DD (subconsciously?) doesn't want to move or is scared of moving? Do you know where you are planning to move to yet? I'm just wondering if maybe you need to try to get DD fully on board with a move and see if you can engineer some excitement in her about that. In which case she would have an incentive to help the move and might be better about not making messes.

[escapingman]

You're moving house? Do you suppose DD (subconsciously?) doesn't want to move or is scared of moving? Do you know where you are planning to move to yet? I'm just wondering if maybe you need to try to get DD fully on board with a move and see if you can engineer some excitement in her about that. In which case she would have an incentive to help the move and might be better about not making messes.

Yes, or we are going to sell and then find somewhere to move to. DD is really excited about it and is helping me look for houses, but if I am unorganised she is completely unorganised and absent minded. As STBX used to shout at her whenever she was doing something wrong, however minor it was, and TBH most of the time she wasn't even doing anything wrong, I am struggling to tell her right from wrong as she immediately go into a state and deep down expects abuse. She is getting better, but it's hard to try to teach her things when she reacts like that. I was very angry with her this morning (after she left for school) but I managed to channel that into energy I used to clear it all up AGAIN. I also arranged for the photos of the house to be taken, they will be done at the arranged day and time whatever the state of the house, if I don't have a deadline I will never finish.

[Jolie40]

escapingman
show your daughter pics of houses for sale on realtor.com
the ones that look perfect sell in a day or two
if not, it takes a while

if you have "too" much, you could get a storage pod which some people have done in our neighborhood when selling....they take away your extra stuff & store
I don't know if they load it up for you or not.....imagine they would

[escapingman]

Thanks Jolie, I have managed to get most into the garage so should be OK. The real struggle for me is my lower back, after spending 2 hours this morning I was done, I couldn't do a bit more. So even with storage, I would really struggle to get the boxes there, but I will need to remove my things before I let STBX in to get hers. I am going to let her have most as I don't want to argue with her and just don't want to much of the things she bought for us. I think monetary we will get an equal split of the stuff as it looks like I am taking a very expensive piece of furniture and her the rest (planned by her to get as much items as possible).

Me and DD are looking online all the time, I have seen a few places that probably will fit the bill. DD seen something she would like but it literally has no garden and I would really like one to potter in. I was not allowed to do anything in the garden as STBX created an argument every time I tried. But I am so desperate to move on so if there are no houses available I put all items in storage and stay in a local B&B or hotel.

[escapingman]

I have slowly got through the packing, cleaning and moving stuff around. I have suffered enormously with my procrastination but now when I am at the homerun (managed to eventually get myself to clean the bathroom) I feel really good. Only one room left to really clear out and then just hovering and polishing etc. Why do I do this all the time? I could have been finished months ago and I knew this time was coming. 

[square]

Just embrace it, feel good about what you've done!

I bet if you had someone to help you not kill your back it would have been different.

[moglow]

Well YAY! Now just get it into your mind that you'll go looking for something and it won't be where you think, or you may not be able to find it at all. It's okay. You'll figure it out. It's just stuff. Don't allow yourself or your DD to panic or meltdown or get wound up in it. It will happen.

[escapingman]

I am going to ramp up the looking and start viewings as soon as I have got over this first hurdle, I know which area to look in as DD need to be within reasonable distance to her school. It gives me quite a big area to look in so should be OK. I am also prepared to stay in a hotel for a while just to get us out of here, looking at it financially it makes no real difference to costs, it's just not the best for DD long term. STBX is going to have loads of demands on her house so doubt she will even buy anything, that would be terrible for GC, but it's not anything I am involved in so I will leave that.

[hhaw]

EM:

Consider documenting:
1.  Attempt to procure mental health care for DD (presumably you documented your concern for GC and belief T is necessary for her, as it is for DD, considering the most powerful evidence proving your statement.   (I'd consider providing  top 3 or 5 pieces of evidence WITH that documentation, send it to my Attorney, for my file and perhaps to the SW for that file.)  Top 3 pieces if evidence would include the best recorded instances of PD abuse where GC is involved, along with top 2 instances of GC being failed by SW/whomever ignored/minimized or presented as willfully ignorant as the primary cause for failure to protect GC.  Just the facts, sans judgment.

You always have the option to document for future court battles to position for the best possible outcome in that Courtroom.

I want to give my perspective on DD acting out/breaking down/generally creating distress for you.

I think DD is asking for help to feel safe and not so out of control.  Suicidal ideation is reason enough to find help, likely in anyone's book.  Certainly in mine.  DD is asking you for help and she's asking for different help than you've been able to give her, thus far, imo.

IME, when children receive what they've been getting, in terms of support that lead to their inability to regulate emotions and feel safe, children escalate their request with behavior changes, bc they don't know what they need.  They only know they're not ok....theyre suffering....thingscare going to get much wirse, if they don't get better.

Worse, meaning....
Eating disorders
Self harm/cutting/addictions/
promiscuity/stealing/
complete break down in communication with authority figures/trying on opposite personas,  letting grades go, refusing school, among many.  Some are ways my children acted out and some are ways I've witnessed other children act out while working with 8ther families in wilderness camp and tgerapeutic boarding school.

From experience, I can say I wish I found the focus and strength to make changes before my children gave up on me and looked for ways to control their lives, which adds another layer of harm and harmful coping strategies the kids have to unlearn, opposed to getting help to 0ut healthier strategies in place BEFORE the stakes are higher.

I was barely coping, as If always coped.  I had no ability to understand, research or change my strategies, even though I'd had the girls in therapy for a while.  I failed to keep it up AND mist if all bc my girls wanted help from ME.  They asked, straight out, for it many times before the wheels came off.

I think your DD is asking you for healthy boundaries and follow through, which isn't what you've been giving, EM....ime.

I believe you need DD to "be ok" in order for you to be ok.

That's a lit to carry for any child.  It's too much for your DD.

The question becomes, in my mind, can you notice how it feels to rise above your child's despair and remain responsive, while she has her toughest emotions, so you're able to respind, hold boundaries calmly and provide the safe container DD needs to work through her despair and toughest emotions?

The difference between reacting the way you've been conditioned to react.....
before realizing you're reacting....

And stopping for one split second to notice choices BEFORE reacting us EVERYTHING, EM.

I think it's the difference between helping you and your child/ren begin to heal abd replace defeating patterns OR continuing patterns that got you where you are.

No disrespect.  I understand the stress you're under.  So many balls in the air. 

It's just addressing the mental health ball, ime, would make juggling easier, all around, for you and DD...and maybe save you and DD from suffering 100x worse than you might at 100x the expense, time and trauma.

Surely forensic child Ts are practicing in the UK.....hopefully one's specialuzing in trauma and somatic therapy.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound if cure and all that.

That!
I used to leave parent therapy sessions shaking and in shock after listening to the horror stories other parents were living with th their children.  Some if those kids were 14yo, so the problems were in place well before.

It's shocking to find out how simple the necessary changes in our parenting really are.

It's shocking to feel how alien and counterintuitive it feels to MAKE the necessary changes with communication, boundaries abd hoding boundaries while taking ourselves out if the child's way, but it comes down to that, ime.

Asking for help, persevering through the discomfort of making change....
THAT would be THE most beneficial, life changing action a parent might/could focus on.....
even if it feels something will snap if they try, ime.

It's the key to getting one's head above water.  When the parents get above water, chances the children will increase.  I always see immediate ease and improvement for my kids when I right my boat.








It doesn't get easier.

It gets more difficult, more dangerous and more exponentially more expensive as time goes by AND you have no control once they're 18yo.

Waiting to get a

[escapingman]

DD got another tantrum yesterday, it gets longer between them, but I think she engineered it and wanted me to be her scapegoat. I got incredible triggered, but I handled it reasonable well but not perfect. She screamed and slammed doors and accused me of stealing a piece of paper from her room (She either lost it herself or more likely hid it and used it as the reason). I had one fight response I could not stop in time and that was slamming the door when leaving her room, this after telling her off for slamming the doors    But I then went to my room and listened to music concentrating on breathing until I was out of the response. When I didn't give DD the reaction she wanted she calmed down quite quick and then went to bed. This morning she was swearing at me before going to school, not sure if she is cross with me for not engaging or if she is embarrassed. I hope she comes home from school in a better state. In the past I would be in a bad state now and ruminating over how she treated me and why she behaved like she did, but I am no longer going to have someone else dictate how I feel. Yes it is my daughter and I am concerned, but to be concerned and upset about her behaviour doesn't mean I have to wallow in misery.

hhaw, I listen to the audiobook you recommended. It was very good and have a lot of ideas I already started to adapt. I definitely had a lot of use of it yesterday, thanks for the recommendation (and persistence in telling me to read it).

[hhaw]

SO glad you got through the book, EM!!

Maybe listen to it in the background as you work on the house.,,,,lots to take in!!!

Allowing DD to have her difficult feelings, without getting yanked down the rabbit hole with her, will help her feel safe and allow you to be responsive with access to more choices......a little success feels like a warm lantern lighting the way in a very cold darkness, btw.

Just keep reminding yourself.....change feels wrong, but it brings relief and healing so hang in there.

Maybe write out the top new habits you intend to work on....wriring it out will help you internalize them and you can read when switched into survival mode.....a touchstone, of sorts,

DD might appear to resist, but kids want that safe container.  She should respond positively once she believes you'll be consistent.  She needs you to be level and ok.

It feels like this, for me....
DD fires an emotionally charged statement over my bow.....
I hold....,
Hold.......
Hold......
Hold......,
I have a chance to NOTICE all my thoughts and typical reactions, bc I'm not acting on them.

It's the second I need to notice other choices and consider them BEFORE reacting,  I choose a response instead to help DD help herself and help myself.  Lately I validating DD's childhood experiences while reminding us both...,I did my best.  I don't ask her for validation or to forgive me...I validate her experience.

I know I shouldn't require I feel better through my children....transferring agtession, insistingDD's experience wasn't what she claims, slamming things, blurting a truth are off the table in favor of looking my child in the eyes with compassion, repeating back what she just said, word for word so she feels understood. 

If appropriate, I might ask her what she's going to do to solve her problem.....
Hold....
Hold.....
Hold.....allowing time for her to let the weight of that sink in.  No trying to solve it or help.....I take myself out of the thing so DD feeis her responsibility and consequences
on
her
own....without focusing on me.

It's part editing, part sitting with my discomfort without putting any on DD's plate.  Part handling my strong emotions so DD learns how to do it too.

Internally noticing and validating my feelings in place of reacting, sort of.

When you went to your room to cool off..,,that was great. 

How did it feel to face her again?

It's taken me awhile to face the discomfort and talk about it.....bc my avoidance is my default.  I find journaling helpful to distill my feelings down and find clarity enough to remain calm during the next chat.  Having a good T has been immensely helpful.

I always found it easy to apologiz, when the girls were young,  for raising my voice...then askibg girls for better ideas on how I could have handled it, etc....that was easy.  Lessons were easier to model then.  I, like yourself, have been rather shellshocked through the years so boundaries are the way back to center
every
time or discussing what I fear....the things tied to unconscious beliefs about myself, the old critical tapes others installed THAT I BUY into, even a little creating the biochemical hijack......is impossible, ime.  I won't try if I'm not able to find and calmly state boundaries.  I go calm down THEN go back in, as you did.

I cut myself lots if slack too, EM.  I treat myself like I treat my daughter's......its a huge shift to always be on your own side.

If I cry....I thinks it's terrifying for my youngest,  I assure her it's ok to cry, I'm ok, it's human and she can cry and be ok too. 

We don't slam doors in our house or yell, so that's different.....that was my brother's wife in our family.. We tend to get overwhelmed and shut diwn in our house, but recently my youngest can be calmly cruel and I've stopped allowing it....boundaries are key. 

Its safer when I remember boundaries, practice them and remain level.  I think children are terrified when they register despair, anger or  reactivity in a parent....they need us to be ok.

My youngest held her mental health and needs under water, bc she felt I couldn't handle them and be ok, myself.

It came out sideways then spiraled......now we're leveling out.....both of us, but those boundaries .....theyre there to keep everyone emotionally safe, EM.

Challenge your discomfort and be willing to sit in it.

It's worth it.

[hhaw]

Ah, one more thing.

When your DD is angry and blaming you for her stuff.......she's likely projecting onto you.

Gently stepping out of the way, letting her know you believe in her ability to handle herself is where she learns how capable she truly is.

She needs you to believe first.

[escapingman]

DD came home from school happy and beaming, she had her piece of paper she had lost and screamed about yesterday....... her friend had taken it by mistake as they had taken each others books!

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Glad to hear it, EM.