Kids possibly done with PDdad - how to support?

[BeautifulCrazy]

*** I especially would love for anyone with PD parents to weigh in here ***

In the past, my kids have declined seeing their PD dad.
Each of the children have had periods where they decided not to attend the mandated 'every other weekend' because they were having difficulty with their dad. Usually only a few weeks, but as long as a few months at a time...
It has been SIX months that NONE of the children has spoken to their father. This includes Christmas, his birthday, their own birthdays etc.
There was an incident in August where one of the children got into a confrontation with their dad's GF of the moment. Dad chose his GF's side, the other kids backed up their sibling. It culminated in dad packing the kids into his vehicle two days early and driving them an hour and a half to bring them home to me, while verbally abusing them the entire ride. He said things that were vile and, in my opinion, unforgivable. The kids must have thought so too, since they all promptly blocked him on all forms of media and refused to ever go see him again.
They have held to this for six months now.
I know the oldest (16) unblocked him at Christmas time, mostly to see if his father would make the effort to reach out to him. (He didn't)
Each of the children has had a few things come up in the past several months that would usually involve contact with their dad. Every time, the child independently decided they did not want him involved in whatever the situation was. Sometimes this has caused us hardship (like the time we needed dad's insurance coverage to pay for some medical expenses), but they have stuck to their decisions.
My oldest had a serious medical issue last week and the hospital called his father (second on the contact list) to be sure he didn't miss an important appointment. His father then texted him, to let him know about the appointment and said he hoped he was okay. My son didn't text back, even to acknowledge that he received the message.
I know there were some feelings that came up about that, but he didn't want to talk about it.
I know that there are feelings coming up for all of them. There are comments and discussions and a bit of venting from time to time. When meltdowns happen, dad is often one of the themes (But never the ONLY thing).
Can anyone give me advice on how to navigate this? I think this might be a long term (permanent?) NC.
For the most part, they don't seem to be doing it out of stubbornness or malice.
Just.... done.
Naturally, I have mixed emotions about it. I am proud of them for standing up for one another and for what is right and for not accepting abusive behavior. I am definitely glad they are no longer exposed to the dysfunction and lifestyle over there. But I am scared too. My ex provides insurance coverage for the kids as per our court order, and would sometimes (minimally) contribute to expenses like sports or other extracurriculars. He is supposed to do this 50/50, but he doesn't. If there is a GF he is trying to impress, he will buy football cleats or drive kids to a few practices while doing his FOTY performance. Not much but it sure helps.  If I am honest, having to cover EVERYTHING myself now so the kids can do NC is a struggle because a few hundred dollars here and there does make a difference.
But I MOSTLY worry how this affects them transitioning to adulthood. (they are 13yo to 16yo)
I know I can't compensate for them not having a dad, but is there anything that can make this easier for them?
Looking back, is there anything that any of you adult children would have found helpful?
Something you wished you had from your non-PD parent?
Something that worked and you are grateful for?
What do I do / say about the awful things he said to / about them? It is the kind of thing you can't unhear. I would be traumatized if a parent had said things like that to me.

[wisingup]

Hi BeautifulCrazy - it's nice that you are reaching out on behalf of your kids.

In a way, the kids are lucky that they have one non-disordered parent who has her eyes wide open & that they are physically removed from the pd.  Many of us here have two problematic parents, or one who could be normal but stays "for the kids" and thus keeps them in surrounded by the crazy.  Your kids have a chance to see normality & compare it to life at their dad's & understand before they leave home that his behavior is abnormal & makes them miserable.  Plus they have each other for support. 

I recommend letting them talk to you about life at their dad's and the troubling things they witnessed.  Let them tell you all their stories & talk about how it made them feel.  How they hope to behave when they are parents.  You can gently support their feelings that something is really off and reassure them that IT IS NOT THEIR FAULT.  If dad is OK not forcing them to visit, by all means let them skip it.   There aren't that many years left where he can force the issue & all time away from him will make them stronger.

But here's the thing.  For a long time - maybe the rest of their lives - they are going to hold onto a bit of hope that dad will come around.  That he will see how he hurt them, apologize, & make amends.  They'll finally have the dad they always wanted & needed.  They may reach out to him or accept contact from him in the hopes that he's changed or they are now old enough to work it out with him.  Of course, this is unlikely to end well, and you may need to be there again & again to help them with the fallout of contact with him.  Many of us on the Dealing with PD Parents board have gone through this cycle over and over again because we so badly want to have a good relationship with our parents & it takes a long time to truly accept that it can't be.

I wish you the best.  Make sure YOU have some support for yourself so that you can be strong for your kids. 

[Stillirise]

Thank you BC, for this thread, and wisingup, for your thoughtful response! I'm simply here to follow along, because I feel that my children are heading down a similar path.  They still begrudgingly go to their EOW visits, but they are only 12 & 13. They complain, and I validate, but still encourage them to make the best of it, for now.

I can also relate to the financial aspect of NC. I get almost no help with expenses, other than what is court mandated now, even though he is financially well off. However, I could see him having strings attached to the big things, like a car, when that time comes.

[Srcyu]

As requested I shall, 'weigh in.'
It looks as though your children have reached their final straw. The stage has arrived when seeing their PD father is no longer worth it. To avoid contact over Christmas and respective birthdays is a huge thing for people so young. The father is such a fool to take the side of his GF of the moment. He has sent such a clear message to his children and they have listened to it.

It's sad that one child tried unblocking his father and that was the hope manifesting that wisingup mentioned.
Not wanting to talk about it yet probably indicates that the hurt is very deep and raw and the child is still fighting an internal battle with his feelings. The no contact is a defence mechanism against further hurt but the act itself is hard to deal with. I nursed the no contact to myself for a very long time because the risk of an adverse reaction from other people is huge. Minimising is also an unwelcome response.

The advice I would give is to always follow the children's lead. Never suggest any particular course of action unless asked about it. Always accept and validate their feelings about all of this mess that their father has created.  If they need to run through each thought and feeling more than once - so be it. The very hurtful pain of destroyed trust by their father will never leave them. They may go for some periods of time without referring to him much, but it will always be there under the surface.

Validation is the key more than anything. Be truthful and honest with them even if that means showing shock on your part.  They may be feeling fear. It's destabilising to be treated badly by a parent. Their inner core has been damaged. Acknowledge to them, as you did in your post, that they are not to blame in any way. They are fortunate to have you and each other.

You asked which things were most helpful? Kindness above all else, because that's the one thing that was lacking from the PD parent.

[BeautifulCrazy]

....
But here's the thing.  For a long time - maybe the rest of their lives - they are going to hold onto a bit of hope that dad will come around.  That he will see how he hurt them, apologize, & make amends.  They'll finally have the dad they always wanted & needed.  They may reach out to him or accept contact from him in the hopes that he's changed or they are now old enough to work it out with him.  Of course, this is unlikely to end well, and you may need to be there again & again to help them with the fallout of contact with him.  Many of us on the Dealing with PD Parents board have gone through this cycle over and over again because we so badly want to have a good relationship with our parents & it takes a long time to truly accept that it can't be.
....

He has sent such a clear message to his children and they have listened to it.
....
The very hurtful pain of destroyed trust by their father will never leave them. They may go for some periods of time without referring to him much, but it will always be there under the surface.
....
It's destabilising to be treated badly by a parent. Their inner core has been damaged.
....

These things quoted right here.
These are the things I worry about. These are my biggest mom-fears.
It hurts to read such honest and clear descriptions. (I really appreciate them! Thank you wisingup and Windmill!)
It hurts even more to realize I may not be able to do anything about it other than be there to help deal with the damage.

None of the kids has broken NC. None of them are even interested, for now, although I suspect that could change in the future. Sooner for some than others.

One thing we are doing A LOT of lately is talking about relationships. My oldest is starting to do new independent adult-ish things like dating and having more developed relationships with adults he has frequent contact with (parents of friends and girlfriends, the guy next door etc.). He is noticing how adults interact with one another and what they say about each other. We are having great conversations about boundaries and what behaviors we think are okay / not okay toward others. What we want for ourselves. What we find uncomfortable to be around, and why. There is a lot of anger toward their dad sometimes, but talking about relationships benefits all of us, even my younger teens. It is affirming to see that they are young men with values, despite all the crumminess they have seen / experienced.  And talking about what our values are, just getting them into words, seems to make us all more solid in them. 

Teenage boys!!?!
It is an interesting parenting stage, seeing these boys as the men they are becoming, and yet still the vulnerable little boys they have always been.
My youngest observed that we are all much more emotionally mature than dad is. Insightful. He is sad about it. I am too.

So many contradictions! One moment I am full of awe and pride at what incredible humans they are, the next I am wondering how they will ever survive to adulthood while making such stupid decisions! 

ExPDMIL has made contact with the kids a few times since Christmas and the kids have agreed to meet with her and ExEnFIL next week. I am pretty sure I will be posting more once that visit happens.

[wisingup]

One thing we are doing A LOT of lately is talking about relationships. My oldest is starting to do new independent adult-ish things like dating and having more developed relationships with adults he has frequent contact with (parents of friends and girlfriends, the guy next door etc.). He is noticing how adults interact with one another and what they say about each other. We are having great conversations about boundaries and what behaviors we think are okay / not okay toward others. What we want for ourselves. What we find uncomfortable to be around, and why. There is a lot of anger toward their dad sometimes, but talking about relationships benefits all of us, even my younger teens. It is affirming to see that they are young men with values, despite all the crumminess they have seen / experienced.  And talking about what our values are, just getting them into words, seems to make us all more solid in them.

This is huge, BeautifulCrazy.  This is something that never ever happened in my home.  My dad was a severe alcoholic & we all just pretended he wasn't.  My mom was a crazy person whenever life got difficult, which was fairly frequent with an alcoholic breadwinner, and we all just pretended that her hysteria was normal & OK. 

The other thing I never got, that hopefully you are able to give your boys, was a reflection of themselves back to them.  Meaning that you see their good qualities & remark on them, help them correct poor behavior in a kind way, & give them confidence that they are good people even if they still have some things to learn as they grow up.  What was reflected back to my brother and I was how well we were meeting my parents needs - whether we were cheerful enough, didn't cause any problems or have any needs, helped to sooth my mom when she was upset, etc.  We became pleasers, basically.  I still struggle constantly with the feeling that I will be rejected by friends if I don't agree to everything & stay cheerful at all times.

I wish you all the best.  Your kids will be vastly helped just by you being normal, competent, & open with them.  Please feel free to keep checking in!

[BeautifulCrazy]

The kids are going out for dinner this weekend with my PDEx Mother In Law and my enabler Ex Father In Law. Thankfully, it has been a full decade since I have had any relationship with them, but my kids have had a continued relationship with them through their father. Being NC with their dad for nearly 8 months now, they are VLC with their grandparents, having only some occasional text exchanges, initiated by their grandmother.

I am just venting here to relieve some anxiety. I am feeling a ton of unanticipated anxiety about the real life contact.

PDExMIL is not someone I have EVER wanted around my children. Even my ExH did not want her around our kids. But being the manipulative and microscopically controlling person she is, she forced herself into our lives before our first was born and ExH quickly stopped putting up boundaries. I left when the oldest was 6 and the youngest was 3, so involvement has been much less than it might have been.

The kids, overall, are pretty savvy now when it comes to the PD playbook with dad and grandmother. They have a bit of detached outsider perspective on the dysfunction and craziness since they haven't grown up completely immersed in it, or dependent on any of the PDs. They have learned some things the hard way from interacting with that part of their family. They have seen how grandmother plays her own children against each other and how she also uses the grandchildren in the same way. They see how money and possessions are leveraged for power. They see how being emotionally invested or sharing too many life details is unsafe. Thanks to some really crummy learning experiences with that family, they usually see what kind of play is going down before they even enter the game, and they have a defense or two mapped out.
Their biggest strength as siblings is that they are united.
Even composing a reply to grandmother's text to ONE kid, they work as a team.  Every time one of them receives contact from her it becomes a group discussion among the siblings about what grandmother's motives might be and they devise a group strategy and response. Sometimes they bring it to me for input, but now they are older, I mostly get the highlights afterward. 
The three kids have each been in contact with grandmother since Christmas break. Grandmother ended a months long period of NC the week after Christmas with promises of lavish gifts and the possibility of joining her and grandfather on a family cruise vacation. The kids politely declined all offers. They are not blind to the strings attached to accepting gifts, bribes, attention.

But, this is grandmother's MAIN PLAY and this kind of seductive gift/bribe offering hasn't stopped.

Does DS16 need help buying himself a decent car?
Wouldn't DS13 like to get braces and have his teeth actually aligned?
Would DS15 like "help" buying upgrades for his old gaming computer?
DS16 should take some friends and beer out to grandma's camp this summer and have some real fun. No parents!
Would DS15 and DS13 like an allowance from grandparents to buy better clothes?

What texts they have shared, carry all the classic subtext... subtly undermining..... suggesting gently that there might be doubt, fear, insecurity....

It is obvious to me where this is going.

I think this is where the biggest part of my fear resides.
Things have been really, really hard financially since I left OCPDH, nearly 3 years ago. Half of my income streams perished during the pandemic. I thought it would turn around in a hurry, but I left in July 2020, and instead of getting better the COVID situation got worse. I have managed to keep us at a decent standard of living, but with varsity sports, special needs (not a neurotypical kid in the bunch!), medical issues and other expenses, both expected and unexpected, I am still struggling... hard.
I worry the glittery appeal of nice, new, expensive things will get to them.
I think my oldest is solid. I think he will hold out longest. Forever maybe.
But the other two waver at times already.
The youngest is the most spoiled and sheltered. He has had things the best, materially speaking, of the three. He has had the benefit of two siblings acquiring great stuff that gets handed down to him. No saving of allowance required. He was too young to remember the food banks, church sponsored Christmases, too-small clothing and living out of our SUV for months after we left his dad. He is the most resentful of our current financial situation. He also has no memory of how dangerous that part of his family can be. He was too young to remember that his grandmother was an active participant in stalking, vandalism, making threats, sabotage and other scary, dangerous things. On top of all this, he is the biggest validation and approval seeker in our family. He is the charming, easy, people pleaser who loves when everyone adores him. I worry his grandmother will find this chink in his armor and exploit it with some fake-niceness. It will be easy for him to believe that his grandmother is motivated by love, not self interest.

The middle one is overconfident in his own abilities. He thinks he is the one person who will be able to accept "a few things" from grandmother and that he will "not let her" wield it as power over him. He thinks he can mange to do what nobody in 4 generations has been able to do. This is the easiest type of target person for her. She has to do very little work to draw them in. The takedown is especially rewarding for her because it comes as a surprise to the victims, who realize too late how they have been trapped.

With all of them, I worry about in-person contact. The texting allows time for them to think about what is presented, consider implications and choose courses of action. They pay attention to the wording of their responses. They have time to consult one another and can be slow, careful and safe.
They will not have this buffer of time and physical space when they are in her presence. They will not have time to reflect or plan before choosing what, or how much, to share.
Until now they have always had their dad with them when interacting with her. The competing interests and agendas between their father and grandmother added another layer of protection, however small.

There isn't really anything I can do. I am fully supporting their choice to try out contact with their grandparents. Whatever happens, happens and they/ we will address any issue... once we know what it is. It is the NOT KNOWING.
I would like to spare them the potential heartache, but I would have to overshare, overstep, overprotect or do other things that don't align with my values.
It feels frighteningly vulnerable.

My insides are just screaming today: "NOT SAFE! NOT SAFE!!"

[Rose1]

When my oldest was in her teens she said to me once "I know it's not a good idea but sometimes I feel like he OWES me!"
I know what she meant. She would have preferred a good relationship but sometimes things are all that's offered.

She found out of course that strings are firmly attached. Went on a trip with ex. She learned that he wanted something and it wasn't really about spending time with her (her organisational ability and cook and cleaner). We had a plan b in case it went belly up. She decided travel with him wasn't happening again.

Best I can suggest is keep the conversations going. Youngest might need to learn about strings himself to really believe it.
Strings are not obligations. Have scissors ready 😀

And you feel like danger because you know it is. Your feelings are valid but your relationship with the kids and your ability to talk about things will mitigate.

[Penny Lane]

I love this:

Best I can suggest is keep the conversations going. Youngest might need to learn about strings himself to really believe it.
Strings are not obligations. Have scissors ready 😀

This is very scary yes. But you have a lot of things going for you, especially that the kids are creating a united front and that the oldest is on board with the healthiest behaviors.

I imagine grandma is going to hit them with a very big shiny offer (or present) at this dinner. What can you do to prepare them? Can you have a very honest conversation about what they will do? Arm them to say things like "I will have to think it over" or let them make you the bad guy and say no? Or do it more subtly.

I think Rose may be right that the hard lessons your older kids learned from experience, your youngest might too. But you know they can survive it and can make good decisions because they've already done so in a much higher stakes situation. You are doing great, and they are going to be ok!!!

[BeautifulCrazy]

Penny Lane, you nailed it!!
Grandma is offering a Big Happy Family Cruise Vacation!  She wants to take her current golden child (her middle son) and his family (wife + one child), plus my 3 kids. So it would be all 4 of her grandchildren, one of her three sons and his wife, herself and grandfather.

The kids have not agreed to go.

She is pressuring them hard to answer as she has chosen dates that are only weeks away. (oh, such classic strategy)
And she is pressuring further by telling them she will take ALL of the kids, or NONE of the kids. They don't want their little cousin to miss out, do they? Or their younger brother? (does the game never change at all?)
She is conspicuously NOT taking their father and his current gf. I suspect that a big part of this sudden plan is that she is punishing him for something.

Youngest wants to go. Sorta.
All three are aware that this might be a way that grandmother is trying to hurt their dad. Middle child is the only one who finds that a bit uncomfortable.
Oldest is not even considering going and seems perfectly okay being the villain who deprives all the others if that is how it goes. On the other hand, he is fully engaged with the daily huddles where they run all the scenarios and discuss current opinions.

My gut says that, at this particular time, it is not going to happen for grandmother.
But I also feel a foreboding, like this is just the start of something.
It is just too big and too bold a move. If she can't make it work, it would be a huge humiliation for her. Especially if the kids' dad or other people know about it. (They probably do. She has probably already used it to triangulate a bunch of people.)

This has me bouncing around between feelings. I am a bit surprised by them.

-I feel that old PD related dread and anxiety, like "What Now?", "What Next?"
I am surprised how powerful this still is. And how small I feel in these moments. I don't like it. I am glad I only rarely feel this way nowadays.

-I feel like a boss b****. My crew is solid. They know who has their back. That's right... go ahead and try us!
This is mostly a good feeling, but there are some mean spirited, vengeful, f---- you aspects to it.

-In between, I mostly feel a lot of  Whatever she/they will do, she/they will do. We will just keep on doing what we are doing.
I like this feeling best. I like that this is how I feel most of the time now with regard to the PDs who used to be in my life.

[Call Me Cordelia]

 

So if the cruise doesn't work for your kids, then she says, "Sorry cousin, gotta be fair." When she is manifestly excluding her own son. Right. I'd like to see how that works for her. I'm with your oldest, I see very little downside to calling her bluff here. Really it's the only course of action that makes sense. Accepting such a "vacation" would soon be blowing up in their faces. And you can't take the lifeboats on a cruise because your grandma's crazy.

If you are feeling a bit, "fuck you, grandma," it's for good reason. Humans like it when the villain of a story gets her just desserts. And if it's only that their evil plot backfired on them, I mean that's only well-deserved shame. You are not wishing true harm. Just reality smacking her down for a change and a bit of justice/karma.

Meh is where you want to be, I get it. I'm glad you're seeing it more. But you got there by working through the scenarios and possibilities, by setting the boundaries and living to tell the tale, by just working out and doing that painful and painfully delayed personal growth.

From what you describe, that's what I understand your kids are doing by running the scenarios and what-ifs. That's so awesome that they have each other and you as they go through this growing process. They are figuring out how to set boundaries, with some boss-level boundary busters, and they are doing so so well! Miles ahead of me at age 30, I have to say! Even if they make mistakes, they will learn from them and do better in the future.

[BeautifulCrazy]

Just dumping some thoughts because Tonight is the night.

Grandmother is taking the chosen few out for dinner today to discuss the vacation plans.
Strong pressuring tactics have been used the past few days. (Grandmother has been texting the kids separately with different prompts, reminding them that they don't have to listen to their parents when making this decision, that their mom and dad can't afford to take them on vacations like this, that nobody else will get to go if they say no.)
And now this hastily organized dinner. Grandmother, grandfather, current golden child son, his wife, their 8 year old, and my three kids.
I suspect the addition of the GC and his family will be a huge added pressure on my boys to conform. (Their GC uncle is in out of rehab and has difficulties with employment. There will be no family vacations for his little branch of the family unless the well off matriarch takes them. Or dies. So it will certainly be to his benefit to help convince my crew to go.)
I feel very sure that grandmother is not going to take just GC and his wife if my kids say no. Her#2 Son is Golden right now, but not THAT Golden. Nobody is. GC is a comparative position, not a very elevated one, and always precarious.

I am about 95% certain that my guys will hold to their decision to turn down the vacation.
The remaining 5% is composed of stupid fear, some of which is uncertainty about GC's wife. I don't know anything about her. I was leaving the family as she was getting entrenched in it. I had a very low opinion of her at the time. Accepting a marriage proposal from an unemployed, active drug user with a colorful criminal record did not seem to me to be the epitome of good decision making. I paid absolutely no attention to her.
This is 10 years on though. She is still part of this family. Who knows what she has done to survive it. What roles she may have taken on. If she is now part of grandmother's flying monkey brigade, does she have any credibility with my kids?
Anyway, one way or another, things are going to take a turn this evening.

I feel mostly calm and sure, but there are these sudden twinges of "DANGER!!" in my guts.

[moglow]

Grandmother has been texting the kids separately with different prompts, reminding them that they don't have to listen to their parents when making this decision, that their mom and dad can't afford to take them on vacations like this, that nobody else will get to go if they say no.

Ummmm, I beg to differ! They're underage, not adults. It doesn't speak well of grandmother at all that she says this to them, much less behind parents' backs. I hope the kids continue to have strength of character to tell/show you what's being said and know that it's WRONG.

[Leonor]

Hi Beautiful, loving mamma!

I just want to support you in your strong, centered mothering of your beautiful children. For a group of kids who have ridden some big waves, they sound like amazing young men, and it's clear that it's your openness, honesty, and nurturing that allow them to stand so tall in themselves while only in their teens.



I'd also like to offer you my impression, which is that your trauma response is popping off all over the place right now. They seem okay with themselves and their decisions and situations, but you are experiencing intense anxiety. Totally understandable!!

But you aren't powerless in this situation. You're not small or unimportant or playing a bit part in their lives. They are minor children
in your sole custody. You are The Important One. You are the Master Scheduler, High Gatekeeper, and Wise Sentry for your kids. You're The Mom, €#@&+ it!

Step into that Mama Bear self and let out your roar. If your ex is court ordered to pay support, then take him to court to make him pay it. Not when he has a girlfriend or sees his sons or not. That's not in the order. He can whine or sulk or threaten if he wants, but if he's legally obligated to make significant and regular contributions, hold him to it. And if there isn't a legal agreement in place, get a lawyer. He brought these young men into the world, and that's his responsibility. If it's not his legal responsibility, get a lawyer.

As for the ILs, whatever. They don't get to go planning time for your children without going strictly and entirely and respectfully through you. And you are The Decider. You decide, "No." That's it. No. No cruise, no Disneyland, no shiny car, no stuff. No. What if they approach your kids? Give them an index card with "Talk to my mom." written on it. When the ILs start spouting their plans, they hold up the card. And if the kids come back saying, "oh Grandma invited this or that," you are in your rights to ring up that silly person and say, "Any invitations for my children are to be delivered only to me. Oh, and by the way, that's a hard 'no' to the cruise." Then hang up.

Your kids seem totally on board with this. It's normal for them to have feelings and bruised hearts and hopes and even sulk or grumble or distance themselves from you in the meantime. That's a good sign: it means you are their safe person. But they're also not really equipped to go through these tough adult relationships on their own. They still need you to be that strong mamma bear. They need you out in front, leading the pack, not waiting at home at the kitchen table worried about what the other adults might do or say to them in your absence. They might think they are, but they're not. Their brains are still growing. They only have peach fuzz on their face. They need you to step in here.

Is it possible that you are worried that because you can't buy them stuff or be around them all the time or control who they talk to all the time, they will eventually believe your ex and his parents more than you, that they will one day take their side and be manipulated into blaming and abandoning you? I know, sounds dramatic, but that's the sneaky part of PTSD. It sounds in our head like, "I just don't want them to hurt by their abusive dad," but there's a little precious girl in there somewhere who loves these young men with every fiber of her being, and is terrified that they will go away or stop loving her or think she's a bad person, because that is what happened when she was young and loved her parents with every fiber of her being. I think she's terrified, and she's hoping and praying that what happened before wont happen again.

It won't. Because that little girl has you, too. And you, the adult, experienced, wise and healing woman, is there to set some dang boundaries and take care of business!

[BeautifulCrazy]

As expected, the kids turned down grandmother.

The three came home full of adrenaline and pride, having stood their ground against the matriarch and her minions. It was nice to see them that way. Victorious. United.

A few hours later, the meltdowns started.

And that is where we spent the weekend and the week so far. Five days now.
It has been very intense! Things have been settling down slowly, but there are a lot of different feelings getting worked through and everyone has such a different process.

I knew there was going to be a bunch of emotional upheaval after this. We are not new to dealing with people with PDs. I knew that it might be big (so much attached to family/blood). I knew that it might take a lot of time to sift through it all. I knew it might take a lot of energy. Parenting is like that sometimes. Sharing kids with a PD/PD family is like that a lot. Still, I feel a bit blindsided by it.
I. Am. Exhausted.
I feel guilty complaining about it, but three teenage boys melting down, sometimes at the same moments, is a lot for one mama!!
On a more positive note, I am very grateful I don't have yucky feelings of my own tied in to all this. Often, in earlier times, I would be triggered or have a big pile of my own feelings to work through when they had struggles with their dad or his family. I don't have my own things to work through around this, so I can be more completely available to them.

[Penny Lane]

How lucky are those kids that they have you to help them navigate this!

I hope you get a chance to do something very nice for yourself, both to decompress and to celebrate your good parenting.

[wisingup]

BeautifulCrazy - I'm glad they decided to turn down Grandma.  When you mentioned the meltdowns starting, I first assumed it was Grandma etc who were melting down.  Any fireworks from that group? 

I'm sorry it was so tough on your boys.  It hurts and will continue to hurt when they go back & think about it.  If they are like me, they will find some way to blame themselves, either for the initial problem or their manner of dealing with it.  I've just now in my 50s been able to give myself a break in that area.  But they have you and each other, and hopefully will emerge a little wiser as to how humans are capable of behaving.   If you can simply continue to model normalcy & offer warm support, that will be a huge thing.

[BeautifulCrazy]

Thanks Penny Lane. I am tired and feeling stretched thin and I am definitely due for some self care. I will plan that into my evening, thanks to your reminder.
wisingup, I am positive there is meltdown and fallout on the PD family side, but, since I have been NC with the PD family for 10 years now and I am not on social media at all anymore, I am not directly exposed to any of it. So, yeah, whatever..... My only contact with PDxH/PDdad for most of the past 10 years was child related, and that has been less and less frequent as the years have passed. Since our kids have gone NC with him, I am NC with him as well. The PDs do whatever they do, and I am only concerned or care at all where it affects my boys. Of course, I get to deal with whatever my kids bring home from their trips into that dysfunction, and that is often a big smelly pile!!
I am not sure what level of contact the kids have right NOW with grandmother, but I am pretty sure they have not initiated any contact since Thursday's dinner. Maybe she has reached out. Have any of them blocked her? I don't know. Possibly they all have.
Is there anything on social media that the kids are aware of or involved in?     I don't know.     Maybe.
If there is, it will get brought to me eventually, like it always does.

In my heart of hearts I knew there was no way they were going to agree to go on that vacation with grandma.
In my heart of hearts I also knew it was going to be very very incredibly difficult for them to say no. Any excuse they gave was going to be met and countered. I knew (and they knew too) that it was going to be easiest (but still not even close to actually being easy) if they stuck unwaveringly together and were very firm. It was always openly affirmed that they could shelter behind my veto power as mom to just say No. But this decision was theirs, by their own account and mine. My role in this was always to support them in their decisions. Not to decide for them, unless absolutely necessary. We have talked about it a lot the last few years. Each of the boys has decided at least once that they were done with their father and/or done with that family and have taken some time off. Some of it was only for days or weeks. My youngest (most often the SG) went NC all by himself for several months before.
When the kids were young I HAD TO send them to be with that part of their family. It was very, very hard. I HAD TO send them into all that mess without me there to protect them. I had dark dark days and nights worrying about them and feeling like I had failed in my most basic parenting role, to protect them, whatever the cost. Because of the court imposed access, my kids have had to navigate relationships with these difficult people from a very young age. As a result of this forced experience, they have some hard won maturity. They are skilled and aware and they are relatively unFOGged. My point is, I TRUST them. I support their decisions, even if I don't completely agree with them. And I have their backs. I have not been in a position to gatekeep this relationship with their grandparents, but I would gladly be the human buffer zone for them if necessary. They know this.

I know there will be more to this with grandmother. No point in worrying though.

The kids keep coming back to it since it happened. With me it is expected ways. Angry. Hurt. Wanting to know why, and trying to make it make sense.
With each other it is weird. Things aren't right somehow. They are missing some part of their usual cohesiveness. Like there is tension between them, but nobody seems quite able to get words around it yet? They kind of circle each other in the house. Avoidant. Then coming together, but silent. Then the too-loud, too-funny, too-deliberate interactions. Maybe I am misreading or overanalyzing and it isn't even about that stuff.

Parenting is just. plain. Hard. And the more you care about doing a good job, the harder it gets. Plus having a PD co-parent leaves me feeling like I always have to be "extra" and be two parents in one. 

Thanks for the support.